Digital_Cowboy

Yesterday while I was out riding I (like many here) encountered an overly courteous driver, i.e. a driver who even though they arrived at an intersection well in advance of my reaching it. They attempted to wave me through the intersection.

The driver actually got upset with me for not accepting his courtesy and going through the intersection first. I tried to explain to him, as best as I could across the the street. That he had the right of way and shouldn't "surrender" it. That's when he said that he was trying to be courteous.

I (as I am sure most here are/would be) appreciated the sentiment of his gesture. But we as cyclists understand the "hidden" danger of such a gesture, i.e. there could be a car on a "hidden" section of road that the cyclist doesn't see, and wouldn't likely see the cyclist.

It took a few more seconds than required for him to proceed, i.e. he would have been through the intersection before I reached it.

So while I (like everyone here) appreciate the gesture, I just wish that they would treat us like any other vehicle on the road.

DX-MAN

"Thanks, but I DON'T WANT special treatment -- I'm not a cripple."

Hard to shout across an intersection and be understood, but if that doesn't do it, climb off the bike and take a relaxed pose. I'm just enough of a sarcastic snark to do that, and wave lazily as they lurch through the intersection on their way.

Unless I was in a hurry myself, in which case I may well take them up on it, while hollering, "THIS TIME, OK! NEXT TIME, JUST GO!"

Don in Austin

This situation can, indeed, be annoying. But I try to save my rage for those who are malicious as opposed to well-intended but misguided. Next time, put both feet down and pull out your water bottle.

Don in Austin

Digital_Cowboy

Don,

Thanks for the suggestion, it's a way to handle the situation.

howeeee

we are not like every vehicle on the road..we will get killed much faster than a person in a car or truck.

The overly courteous driver is slight problem we should be happy to have.

Digital_Cowboy

As I said I understood and appreciated the gesture. It's just that I don't think that they really understand themselves how dangerous (for us cyclists) that that gesture really is.

The irony is that earlier in the week I encountered two other drivers that were the opposite. The first one I encountered was on my way to the local VA. I was approaching a four-way stop. I got there first, to my left comes either a pickup truck with cap, or a SUV.

I start to go, they also start to go at the same time. We both stop, and the old gal in the passenger seat rolls the window down and proceeds to tell ME to watch where I'm going. I tell get that THEY'RE the ones who need to watch were they're going as I was the one who had the right of way.

The next one was a driver who even though they saw me on the road coming at them kept their high beams on. It took several blasts on my air horn before they dimmed their high beams.

So yes, I wish that the only problem we had on the road was the overly cautious driver. But the reality is that the overly cautious driver can be just as dangerous as any aggressive driver on the road. And maybe more so because they honestly think that they're "helping" us.

degnaw

Maybe last time, a cyclist ran the stop and cut them off, and from then on, they just started letting cyclists go through first.

Happens to me on a regular basis. I'll come to the stop sign, wait 2-3 FULL seconds for them to proceed, and if they still don't, I'll just go. No sense in getting annoyed.

Digital_Cowboy

I wasn't annoyed per se. It's just behavior that I find frustrating, and dismaying. And as noted earlier potently dangerous.

And you have a valid point, but in my case even if what you said was true (which given that he said that he was trying to be considerate (or did you miss that?)) it doesn't apply as I had signaled that I was stopping and was in the process of putting my foot on the ground.

howeeee

I dont buy that the overly courteous driver is just as dangerous as the aggressive one. It is definatly a nusance. I have posted before this thread about how you have to be so careful cause every driver is different and you have the ones that no matter what wont go till you go. Something I just live with.

zirger726

At one point in my commute were I come off a bike path cars will usually stop for me even though there is no stop sign for them (I have one on the bike path) and even if I am already stopped waiting for them to pass. After I procede the car then passes me (sometimes way to close) and the other traffic that they held up has come close to rear ending them and often gets mad at me judging by the way they pass. It is just easier for them to go ahead and get out of my way.

Digital_Cowboy

The danger comes from the fact that their car can be hiding another car that can run into the cyclist. Or it can hide the cyclist from the view of another car. And that it "trains" cyclists to expect "all" motorists to stop and wait for them.

As I said I understand and appreciate the gesture, but it IS a dangerous gesture. It would be in everyone's best interest for them to go instead of trying to be "nice" and "surrender" their right of way that they just proceed through the intersection.

That and/or the cyclist could be making a turn and now feels rushed to get through the intersection and looses control of their bike and crash.

So I'm sorry, while as I've said I understand and appreciate the gesture, it IS nonetheless a DANGEROUS behavior.

Digital_Cowboy

THIS is why this behavior is so dangerous. And why motorists shouldn't be doing it.

Juan Foote

Where I am not looking to be overly argumentative here...there are handicapped people on this forum who don't appreciate comments of this nature. I am a "cripple" and am not looking for special treatment from anyone, but also am not looking to be the brunt of inconsiderate statements like this either. Seen those "that's so gay" commercials? Same thing.

DX-MAN

While I didn't, and DON'T, mean to be insulting to anyone, it's way past time for the thin skin to HTFU.

In the context of what I was saying about the 'overly polite driver', it would be ridiculous to say "I'm not a handicapped person", or "I'm not a physically challenged person", whatever's P.C. now. It was MEANT to make the DRIVER feel bad, not a special group within society.

You will never see or hear me get all huffed about Native American comments (BTW, NA's are THE MOST OPPRESSED group in America!), because I'm not defined by what someone else SAYS -- THEY are. That definition could be anything from "stuck in an era" (out of touch with modern times), "old-fashioned", to "ignorant" or even "prejudiced". Just be careful which appellation you use, as you may be embarrassed, yourself.

I could just as easily, and PURPOSELY, look down on others because their IQ is lower than mine (which is most of the country, BTW), but I don't.

Tell you what -- I'll abase myself in public, tear my clothes in shame, wallow in ashes, renounce my citizenship, and close my account with BF -- will that be enough for you? I don't look to be argumentative AT ALL, so if I'm so offensive, I can leave. *F* it.

**Almost forgot -- familiar with Warren Zevon? The late artist/musician died of cancer; when his diagnosis was made public, it didn't take long for a 'sensitivity' group to express outrage at Warren being publicly referred to as "Cancer Boy". Warren made a statement about that, to the effect of:

"STFU -- *I* started calling MYSELF 'Cancer Boy'."

Time to, like I said, HTFU. **

Juan Foote

It isn't about thin skin needing to harden up, it is about thoughtless comments being made in reference to a situation that doesn't warrant it. In most situations, I would agree with you. Free speech and all that jazz.
It isn't hard not to bash others. The forum doesn't allow you to make fun of gays, or ethnic groups. We recently started a forum just for those who need help adapting to cycling, what you might consider "crippled", so have a little bit of consideration for the members who deal with issues that you simply cannot imagine (like this) every day by simply giving a second thought to how it might be perceived by "us" as well as others.

Not asking you to leave, just leave that manner of bashing comment at the door. You may not see it the way I do because you can't. Being healthy is easy to take for granted. I know I did, for years. Being on the other side of the coin opened my eyes, and I hope more than you know that you never learn the way I did.

Digital_Cowboy

Punkncat,

While I will admit that I do not know DX offline, I'd like to think that I've gotten to know "my brother" pretty well via the forums. And considering that the VA has me rated at 70% Service Connected disabled I did NOT take offense at his comment. My girlfriend also has disabilities, and I do not think that she would have been offended by his comment either.

I also have to say that DX was on the money in saying that any of the various "P.C." ways of phrasing it would NOT have been appropriate in the situation I found myself in.

And if you truly understood the concept of free speech, then you'd know that it protects "offensive" speech.

To DX, PLEASe don't leave. As if you do you will be missed my brother.

Juan Foote

Perhaps I did take it a little hard. I walk around every day dealing with the double standard that society places on disabled individuals. I cannot find work due to it. I deal with strangers staring at me every day like I am a Frankenstein. The LAST place I wanted to see a comment like that was here. Cycling is one of the FEW arenas where I can at least feel like an equal, healthy individual as I go down the road, and again, one of the few places I can actually get kudos for doing what I do in my condition. Whether you and your girlfriend were offended doesn't change the statement. Perhaps your knowing him better than I do made you overlook it, but it was still inconsiderate.

I am not looking for anyone to leave.

DaveZ

I agree that there is no point in getting annoyed; i also put a foot down and go for the water bottle. BUT, around here on a sunny day, it's hard to see in the window, especially the side window. I don't know about the rest of the world, but in Sacramento it is legal to have the front side windows tinted nearly as dark as the rest. (Who thought that up?) Sometimes I just can't tell if the driver is gesturing for me to go, or if they are yakking on the phone and moving their arms around.

mcrow

I guess you should be happy that they are being considerate of cyclists and not yelling and honking at you instead. There is so much complaining about motorist behavior around here and then you get an example of one being nice and everyone wants to be a snarky smartass about it. lol.

EsoxLucius

Just follow the rules of the road, and it actually works.

jerseyJim

I usually accept these gestures, proceed when safe (with caution) and give the driver a wave and a smile. I understand those who are concerned about the safety issues these situations present. I would rather maintain the good will of a courteous driver by accepting and showing appreciation for this small kindness when it is relatively safe to do so. There are so many hostile and impatient drivers out there. I am thankful for and would like to encourage those who are courteous to bicyclists.

contango 

I suspect a number of drivers have grown used to cyclists who don't respect other vehicles' right of way and just blow through. I've often found that as I'm approaching a zebra crossing (where pedestrians have priority to cross the road) or a red light at a pedestrian crossing I'll be slowing down and pedestrians will often start to cross, see me approaching and step back, clearly assuming I'm going to blow through regardless. A lot of the time they look quite surprised when I stop.

I remember one time I misjudged my approach to a crossing and had to brake quite hard, only for the person crossing to apologise to me.

mcrow

I think that's part of the problem is cyclists have a habit of blowing through intersections and from their point of view they're being safer by letting you go through first. They just don't realize you may be doing the same thing.

Commodus

Four way stops are the worst for me. I have several on my way home, and many times drivers will wait a really long time when they clearly have the right of way. I have to make it really obvious that I'm going to stop....I used to just track stand and check the intersection before proceding, but I've given that up. It makes people think I'm going to dart into the intersection at any moment, so now when I come to a stop I unclip and put a foot down, and grab my water bottle. This seems to be enough to convince everyone that I'm safely stopped.

The whole thing adds a few minutes to my commute, but it's certainly better than people just blowing through the stops.

The dangerous ones, however, are the intersections that do not have stops for the drivers - sometimes you'll get someone who just freaks when they see a cyclist approach the stop sign and slam on the brakes. The people behind have to avoid, and now you're in a bit of an awkward spot. These generally have two lanes where I am, and the other drivers are all trying to get around this crazy person and zooming by in the far lane. So you have to wait for that lane to clear, while said crazy is going ever crazier trying to motion you through.

These people should probably give up driving.

Digital_Cowboy

Trust me, I understand. As to the average person neither myself nor my girlfriend appear to be disabled. And I can just see them looking at either of us, and thinking to themselves, "yeah, you're 'disabled.'" Especially seeing me riding around town.