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-   -   Utter tool kills cyclist in Richmond Virginia (http://www.bikeforums.net/advocacy-safety/836795-utter-tool-kills-cyclist-richmond-virginia.html)

wphamilton 08-04-12 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by genec (Post 14566087)
I have a hard time with that too... not the jury bit, but that anyone on a jury would buy "I didn't know I hit something that weighed at least 100 lbs..." I would think a good photo of the damage to the vehicle would be enough.

Let's not forget that investigators collected some samples from the steering wheel. In the scenario where the driver stopped, wiped incriminating evidence off his bumper, got back in and drove on, traces of the cyclist could be there. That would lend weight to his knowing that he did hit something, and would be more consistent with something to hide than with hitting a deer or dog. Depending on what he removed - what they found on the steering wheel - he'd know it wasn't an animal.

alhedges 08-04-12 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Digital_Cowboy (Post 14562871)
How many times are we going to hear "I didn't know I hit anyone or anything?" That is NOT a legitimate answer/excuse for running.

Well, no, it is a legitimate answer for not stopping. No one stops if they don't know that they've hit anything. That's why they say it. It's a lie, of course - but that's to be expected. And of course they want to tell a lie that exonerates them, if believed.

(Alternatively, it's the truth, but only in part of the truth - they may not have known that they hit anything because they were drunk out of their mind.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by genec (Post 14562894)
I am trying to figure out how these folks don't know they hit something... what is it about them as drivers or the vehicles they drive that gives them the impression that everything is OK?


I mean if something happens to your vehicle that leaves "samples on the steering wheel" isn't pretty obvious that this is not a normal thing?

I think you've overthinking this - they are just lying. (I do wonder what's on the steering wheel. It's not going to be the case that the victim impacted the steering wheel; evidence would be all over the front of the car in that case. I wonder if the driver banged his head on the wheel when he hit the biker. Or maybe the driver got out of the car and checked on the victim and got some blood on his hands and transferred it to the steering wheel.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcrow (Post 14563500)
My uncle has a neighbor the lives across the alley from him that has in the neighborhood of 15 DUIs including a manslaughter on record as a result of one of them.............and still has a license. We're supposed to have a 3 strikes and your out policy here but it seems like there are holes in it.

The neighbor almost certainly does not still have his license. He may still be driving, he may claim to still have his license, and he may have what looks like a license. But I'm 100% certain that if you check with the BMV you'll find out he doesn't actually have a valid license.

dougmc 08-04-12 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by genec (Post 14566087)
I have a hard time with that too... not the jury bit, but that anyone on a jury would buy "I didn't know I hit something that weighed at least 100 lbs..."

... but even so, juries do buy it quite often. "Beyond a reasonable doubt" means different things to different people, and in many cases it means they have to be pretty damned sure. And really, hitting a big pothole could feel like hitting a body to an idiot, especially a drunk idiot.

That said, if evidence was found on the steering wheel that indicates that the person stopped and cleaned up the car and continued, that should blow that claim out of the water. Assuming that the evidence can show that it happened immediately, and that it couldn't have happened the next day.

Poguemahone 08-04-12 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dougmc (Post 14566639)
... but even so, juries do buy it quite often. "Beyond a reasonable doubt" means different things to different people, and in many cases it means they have to be pretty damned sure. And really, hitting a big pothole could feel like hitting a body to an idiot, especially a drunk idiot.

That said, if evidence was found on the steering wheel that indicates that the person stopped and cleaned up the car and continued, that should blow that claim out of the water. Assuming that the evidence can show that it happened immediately, and that it couldn't have happened the next day.

I have it on some authority what they're doing with the steering wheel is testing for booze residue, secreted through the pores. It gives them at least a ballpark if the perp has been drinking. Again, I think the RPD are being extra diligent in this. I've had issues with them in the past, but they're taking this investigation seriously, by every account I have.

Dchiefransom 08-04-12 09:49 PM

The fact that he's changed his story should carry meaning.

njkayaker 08-05-12 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by genec (Post 14562894)

I mean if something happens to your vehicle that leaves "samples on the steering wheel" isn't pretty obvious that this is not a normal thing?

???
There is no implication that the "samples" were a result of the accident. The may have been present before the accident occurred

genec 08-05-12 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by njkayaker (Post 14568375)
???
There is no implication that the "samples" were a result of the accident. The may have been present before the accident occurred

True... apparently the cyclist may not have come through the window, there may be other reasons to dab the wheel.

LemondFanForeve 08-05-12 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poguemahone (Post 14562819)
All the hallmarks. Hit and run. Driver has had 19 moving violations in last ten years. "Didn't know he hit anything." This one is bad, close your eyes:

http://www2.timesdispatch.com/news/n...al-ar-2105066/

Memorial ride in RVA, Sunday, 9pm.

Sounds like this is more of a local city/police problem, as theyre the idiots who continued to let this person drive? Im beyond sick of reading about all these folks with multiple violations, being allowed to drive.

ItsJustMe 08-06-12 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dougmc (Post 14563478)
While that sounds like a lot, it's only two a year. While certainly on the high side, it wouldn't surprise me if over 10% of the drivers out there had similar records.

I don't understand how having a record like this can be considered in any way normal. I accept that people DO get records like this, but it's just outside my experience. Nobody in my family has more than maybe 2 or 3 lifetime citations, many have none. I don't understand a culture that considers getting traffic citations on any kind of a regular basis is normal. I guess it is though since I often see people considering the cost of a traffic ticket to be part of the cost of driving. Just seems bizarre to me though.

dynodonn 08-06-12 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ItsJustMe (Post 14571672)
I don't understand how having a record like this can be considered in any way normal.

It depends on how a person was raised, and with dad and his lawyer continually pulling junior out of the fire, junior sees life differently than the many others who are not able to do or afford the same treatment. Just remember, the high number of convictions are only the tip of the iceberg that junior were caught violating, and with many of the charges being reduced considerably, it only emboldened junior's driving habits even more.

unterhausen 08-06-12 08:52 AM

I'm probably jinxing myself, but I haven't gotten a traffic citation since 1985. If you are getting 2 a year, that means you are an utter tool and driving with recklessness on a fairly consistent basis

himespau 08-06-12 08:52 AM

Not only the cost of a ticket, but the added cost to your insurance. That seems pretty outrageous to me, but maybe for people who do long commutes on the highway they consider that the normal cost of driving. Weird to me though.

dynodonn 08-06-12 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unterhausen (Post 14571798)
I'm probably jinxing myself, but I haven't gotten a traffic citation since 1985. If you are getting 2 a year, that means you are an utter tool and driving with recklessness on a fairly consistent basis

Star Wars and Billy Beer were brand new when I received my one and only speeding ticket, and the way my family chides me about my slow driving, I won't be jinxing myself.

dougmc 08-06-12 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ItsJustMe (Post 14571672)
I don't understand how having a record like this can be considered in any way normal.

I didn't say it was "normal". I said that it wouldn't surprise me if the worst 10% of the drivers on the road had similar records. And that it's probably not enough to trigger any sort of drivers license suspension or surcharge penalty if the offences were spread out.

Remember Carlos Bertonatti? He had gotten 40 violations in 12 years. (He still hasn't had his trial, by the way.)

nd2010 08-07-12 09:08 AM

It's interesting that the perp works for the Richmond Times-Dispatch and the victim's mother works for a competing newspaper. One thing's for sure, this will get a lot of coverage in both newspapers. I hope that when the perp is found guilty, he loses his job.

Mithrandir 08-07-12 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dougmc (Post 14563478)
While that sounds like a lot, it's only two a year. While certainly on the high side, it wouldn't surprise me if over 10% of the drivers out there had similar records.

Given that he can probably take defensive driving once a year and get rid of one of those offences, this probably isn't even enough to trigger additional fines or loss of drivers licenses (I don't know Virginia laws regarding this, however -- this is just a guess.)

Hopefully they'll nail him for the hit and run now, however.

"Only" two a year? I've been driving for 16 years and I have one moving violation, which probably won't even show up on my record because it was bogus. Was doing 45 in a 45 and a cop pulled me over saying I was doing 65. Wrote me a ticket telling me to go to court on a night that court wasn't in session. Called the police department the next day and they said they have no record of that ticket ever being issued, and I obtained documented proof of that fact.

It is inexcusable to get 19 violations in 10 years. It's not hard to drive by the rules.

himespau 08-07-12 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mithrandir (Post 14576204)
"Only" two a year? I've been driving for 16 years and I have one moving violation, which probably won't even show up on my record because it was bogus. Was doing 45 in a 45 and a cop pulled me over saying I was doing 65. Wrote me a ticket telling me to go to court on a night that court wasn't in session. Called the police department the next day and they said they have no record of that ticket ever being issued, and I obtained documented proof of that fact.

It is inexcusable to get 19 violations in 10 years. It's not hard to drive by the rules.


Was that one of those fake cops? I've heard of cop imposters pulling people over and giving them tickets and, when they find a woman who they want, extorting them for "favors" in lieu of writing the ticket.

DeadheadSF 08-07-12 11:42 AM

"Eli Webb told police he was driving the SUV that struck Lanie Kruszewski."

Why am I not surprised...?

adamhenry 08-07-12 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeadheadSF (Post 14576808)
"Eli Webb told police he was driving the SUV that struck Lanie Kruszewski."

Why am I not surprised...?

They are reporting that a preliminary investigation showed that Hayward was bicycling west on Adair and the person operating the Prius was driving south on 10th."

Why am I not surprised?

LemondFanForeve 08-07-12 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wphamilton (Post 14566114)
Let's not forget that investigators collected some samples from the steering wheel. In the scenario where the driver stopped, wiped incriminating evidence off his bumper, got back in and drove on, traces of the cyclist could be there. That would lend weight to his knowing that he did hit something, and would be more consistent with something to hide than with hitting a deer or dog. Depending on what he removed - what they found on the steering wheel - he'd know it wasn't an animal.

You really think this will get THAT kind of dilligence/attention from investigators? there are a NUMBER(Im sure) of investigators who are too lazy to care, or do just enough to cover their own asses. IMO, this is looking more and more like whoever's involved in the investigation/litigation of this case, is looking very IMBECILLIC, and gthey're showing a lack of caring about it, and so forth. Of course this is just MY opinion. I'd be REALLY surprised if the driver gets much of a sentence, or forced to pay any kind of restitution, or have his/her license revoked.(Thats what SHOULD HAPPEN, but wont)

Poguemahone 08-07-12 03:24 PM

Okay, update. Webb has been indicted on felony hit and run charges by a grand jury. The charges carry a sentence of one to ten years. Other charges may be forthcoming; the police investigation continues. Lemond, the police really do appear to be making a real effort on this one. I would reserve judgement on them here (I don't care to reserve judgement on Webb; the title of this thread stands. Maybe he's a nice guy, but he's a tool behind the wheel, and he likes to dodge responsibility).

I went on the memorial ride on Sunday, in a group of about 150 riders. The police intentionally left the ride undisturbed. The group I was with rode with Lanie's boyfriend. It was one of the saddest things I have ever seen; we stopped at her school, where there is a memorial wall, and the site of the accident. Everyone stood in silence as the boyfriend sat at both locations and remembered her. I'm choking up right now. It was an amazing crowd of riders, all ages, sexes, and races. It was beautiful and it was sad. I really do not know how to describe it. It gave me hope and it made me cry. All at once.

Fifteen years ago, I had a friend killed by a right hooking driver. There was no ride like this, no indictment. I have hope for the human race yet.

LemondFanForeve 08-07-12 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poguemahone (Post 14577721)
Lemond, the police really do appear to be making a real effort on this one. I would reserve judgement on them here (I don't care to reserve judgement on Webb; the title of this thread stands. Maybe he's a nice guy, but he's a tool behind the wheel, and he likes to dodge responsibility).

.

Maybe......I've just read/seen/heard about way too many cops/investigators/LEO's who dont give a crap, unless it's a friend of their's, or a family member/etc. Plus, Im sure they're catching alot of stuff from the press and mayor and are forced to do it? Not sure..... We'll have to wait to see what the sentence is before I can really make a better opinion.

Poguemahone 08-08-12 08:47 AM

Webb is now out on 200,000$ bail. He had to surrender his passport and driver's permit.

http://www2.timesdispatch.com/news/n...bo-ar-2116849/

Chilling fact: Looks like the cyclist hit his windshield. This makes the deer defence pretty flimsy. Not that it ever wasn't.

dramiscram 08-08-12 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rydabent (Post 14564119)
Sure hit someone and kill them. Go home and get sobber, then report the accident. Its the old Teddy Kennedy ploy.

In Quebec, by the law, it is a worst crime to hit and run than to be DUI, to discourage people to run away like that. They changed the law few years ago after there's been a lot of cases in the same summer. It's a bit better since but it still happen from time to time.

njkayaker 08-10-12 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by genec (Post 14568606)
Quote:

Originally Posted by njkayaker (Post 14568375)
Quote:

Originally Posted by genec (Post 14562894)
I mean if something happens to your vehicle that leaves "samples on the steering wheel" isn't pretty obvious that this is not a normal thing?

???
There is no implication that the "samples" were a result of the accident. The may have been present before the accident occurred

True... apparently the cyclist may not have come through the window, there may be other reasons to dab the wheel.

If the cyclist came through the window, there wouldn't be much need to "dab the wheel".

It's much more likely/reasonable that the "dabbing" was because of some suspicion of an illegal substance. But who knows.


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