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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by himespau View Post
    Not only the cost of a ticket, but the added cost to your insurance. That seems pretty outrageous to me, but maybe for people who do long commutes on the highway they consider that the normal cost of driving. Weird to me though.
    No, they would not typically consider it as part of the "normal cost of driving". These drivers might have fewer violations than average even.

  2. #52
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    This is terrible. It seems worse to lose such a young person. I really feel sorry for her parents.
    I recall a case in S. Fla. long ago, where an older guy hit a cyclist who came over the hood and partially through the windshield. The driver drove on home on the beach and drove into his garage with the dying biker on the hood. Said later "Well I just didn't know what else to do". The biker died on the dashboard.
    His lawyer happened to come over and after little while they notified the Police. I don't remember ever hearing what happened to the driver. Probably some kind of deal.
    After all Killing someone with a car is a non violent crime and all.
    Be safe
    Dave.

  3. #53
    Senior Member k7baixo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
    I'm probably jinxing myself, but I haven't gotten a traffic citation since 1985. If you are getting 2 a year, that means you are an utter tool and driving with recklessness on a fairly consistent basis
    Quote Originally Posted by Mithrandir View Post
    "Only" two a year? I've been driving for 16 years and I have one moving violation, which probably won't even show up on my record because it was bogus. Was doing 45 in a 45 and a cop pulled me over saying I was doing 65. Wrote me a ticket telling me to go to court on a night that court wasn't in session. Called the police department the next day and they said they have no record of that ticket ever being issued, and I obtained documented proof of that fact.

    It is inexcusable to get 19 violations in 10 years. It's not hard to drive by the rules.
    I think my last ticket was just before my daughter was born.

    Oh, my daughter will be 24 this year.

    19 in 10 years? No excuse for that. Nada.
    Last edited by k7baixo; 08-15-12 at 07:33 PM.
    Cheers, Gerry
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  4. #54
    Senior Member DeadheadSF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adamhenry View Post
    They are reporting that a preliminary investigation showed that Hayward was bicycling west on Adair and the person operating the Prius was driving south on 10th."

    Why am I not surprised?
    Yeah, entitled Prius drivers are on my list too. They're quickly catching up to SUVs when it comes to bad drivers, so yeah, I'm not surprised either.
    What a looooooooooooooooooong strange trip it's been...

  5. #55
    Vello Kombi, baby Poguemahone's Avatar
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    Update: Driver/Tool has asked for a change of venue and to have the prosecutor removed. Part of the reason is likely that hit and run drivers and drivers who kill vulnerable users (peds) have not gotten off lightly in RVA courts over the last year. Probably wants the case tried in one of the surrounding counties, where cyclists are fewer. And another prosecutor might not bring additional charges, which I believe are coming. His lawyers claim they are not looking for a plea, but I think they would leap at 1-2 years of jail time. Also, he's quit his job at the Times Dispatch, no doubt in part becasue it entailed driving. Oh, well. No great loss.
    "It's always darkest right before it goes completely black"

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  6. #56
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    Eternally Grateful

    To Poguemahone.
    Thanks to you & everyone that rode with me for the memorial ride. It was one of the most important & defining moments of my life. I was awake all night that night as it all set in. Never-ending gratitude to you and all. Lanie Kruszewski was a brilliant and amazing person. One of a kind. She excelled in everything she did...academics...sports...culinary arts...& most of all in loving others. She was the most unselfish, giving, caring & thoughtful person I have ever met. The contrast between her character and her killer's couldn't be a more polar opposite. Lanie went out of her way constantly to do kind things for others. Eli has no idea who he killed and left for dead...no idea.

    Thank you again.

    Daniel Pritchett
    Last edited by realism; 08-28-12 at 02:00 PM. Reason: clarification

  7. #57
    Vello Kombi, baby Poguemahone's Avatar
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    DP, I am very sorry about your loss. I have no conception of what you are going through, it is rougher than most anything I can imagine. RVA'a bike community is full of good people; don't hesitate to lean on them and involve them in what appears to be activism on your part. Good luck, and I and many others will stick by you.

    Update:
    http://www2.timesdispatch.com/news/2...le-ar-2193591/

    Link shows pic of vehicle. "Deer" excuse pretty much gone. I think we're starting to see groundwork laid for a plea. Hope it involves never driving again.

    Last edited by Poguemahone; 09-11-12 at 09:23 AM. Reason: image
    "It's always darkest right before it goes completely black"

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  8. #58
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    Interesting that the OP linked article is from the driver's employer...

    At least, "Prosecutors plan to ask a grand jury Monday to indict the suspect, Elias Steven Webb, 30, on a felony hit-and-run charge in the death of Lanie Kruszewski,"

    I did find the attorney's response indicative; "When asked whether Webb had been drinking, Marcus said: "He wasn't running from anything. He didn't leave the scene because he was worried about being charged with a crime. He did not know he hit this woman.""

    Since attorney's are taught to manipulate language, I find it interesting that he didn't actually say whether his client was drinking...

  9. #59
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    too bad it wasn't a deer, he wouldn't have driven away. Paper is his ex-employer, btw.

  10. #60
    Vello Kombi, baby Poguemahone's Avatar
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    Judge didn't allow case to be moved:

    http://www2.timesdispatch.com/news/n...of-ar-2279526/

    Lawyer sez:

    ... members of the cycling community have seized on the case as an opportunity to place "universal blame" for perceived injustices they have suffered on the road at the hands of motorists...
    I had no idea we had such a powerful effect on public opinion. Seriously, lawyer has a tough case and is trying to work any angle. I also suspect he annoyed the judge by filing false paperwork a while back, claiming Webb would present an alibi defence, then claiming it was a "clerical error."
    "It's always darkest right before it goes completely black"

    Waste your money! Buy my comic book!

  11. #61
    Senior Member skye's Avatar
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    Just by way of a little color commentary, it has been my considerable experience over the past 30 years of buying print advertising that the position of ad salesman is one of those classic "fresh-out-of-rehab" jobs.

    I would be surprised if the alleged killer's history wasn't knee-deep in bourbon.

  12. #62
    vol
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    Quote Originally Posted by wphamilton View Post
    And the victim's mother is an editor for a competing paper. http://www.henricocitizen.com/index....ring_lanie0803 which promises to monitor the legal proceedings. More than a bit awkward.
    And the driver is "the son of a local attorney".

  13. #63
    24-Speed Machine Chris516's Avatar
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    It is revolting, how many times, motorists' get away with the 'I didn't see him/her', or the 'I didn't know I hit anything/anyone'. Yet they don't get held accountable. But when a cyclist tries to report a driver, and has the video evidence to prove it, the police will say they had witness themselves. The police always have an excuse.

  14. #64
    Senior Member dougmc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris516 View Post
    It is revolting, how many times, motorists' get away with the 'I didn't see him/her', or the 'I didn't know I hit anything/anyone'. Yet they don't get held accountable. But when a cyclist tries to report a driver, and has the video evidence to prove it, the police will say they had witness themselves. The police always have an excuse.
    The police have their reasons, yes, but you seem to be talking about two different things here.

    "'I didn't see him/her" isn't so much an issue for the police as for the DA and a jury. It's the DA that decides if he'll prosecute, and it's the jury that decides if they'll convict. The DA's decision is generally based on what he thinks the odds would be in front of a jury -- DAs don't like to lose, so they usually only take cases they think they'll win to court.

    As for providing the police with video evidence of something, it's generally a misdemeanor if it's the sort of thing we're normally talking about here. In general, the police have explicit, written policies (if not laws) against arresting people for misdemeanors (especially simple moving violations) if they didn't witness it themselves. Exceptions can be made in some cases, but they tend to require a warrant for the offender's arrest. (For example, here is the relevant Texas law.)

    Provide the police with clear video evidence of what is clearly a felony and clearly in their jurisdiction, and they'll act. Especially if they have physical evidence that the crime actually happened as well. (i.e. they have a body, and you show them video of the murder being committed.)

  15. #65
    24-Speed Machine Chris516's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dougmc View Post
    The police have their reasons, yes, but you seem to be talking about two different things here.

    "'I didn't see him/her" isn't so much an issue for the police as for the DA and a jury. It's the DA that decides if he'll prosecute, and it's the jury that decides if they'll convict. The DA's decision is generally based on what he thinks the odds would be in front of a jury -- DAs don't like to lose, so they usually only take cases they think they'll win to court.

    As for providing the police with video evidence of something, it's generally a misdemeanor if it's the sort of thing we're normally talking about here. In general, the police have explicit, written policies (if not laws) against arresting people for misdemeanors (especially simple moving violations) if they didn't witness it themselves. Exceptions can be made in some cases, but they tend to require a warrant for the offender's arrest. (For example, here is the relevant Texas law.)

    Provide the police with clear video evidence of what is clearly a felony and clearly in their jurisdiction, and they'll act. Especially if they have physical evidence that the crime actually happened as well. (i.e. they have a body, and you show them video of the murder being committed.)
    I was illustrating how the life a cyclist is marginalized. Both when they are alive, and after they have died as a result of being hit by a motorist.

    The policy of the county police here, is they have to witness the 'incident'. They won't rely on the video evidence a cyclist can provide.

  16. #66
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    Utter tool kills cyclist
    Yup.

    As opposed to an Udder Tool:
    cow_portable.jpg
    Which probably has more processing power than this Einstein.

  17. #67
    Senior Member dougmc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris516 View Post
    I was illustrating how the life a cyclist is marginalized. Both when they are alive, and after they have died as a result of being hit by a motorist.
    That's not specific to a cyclist. The same things happen when motorists kill pedestrians and other motorists.

    The policy of the county police here, is they have to witness the 'incident'. They won't rely on the video evidence a cyclist can provide.
    That's the policy of most police (and it's often mandated by law, or at least there's additional requirements to charge somebody for a misdemeanor that the police did not witness), and it's not cyclist specific.

    The police have rules they have to follow, and for the most part these rules don't care about the distinctions between cyclist, motorist and pedestrian. The DA has rules too, and he also has to worry about what a jury might do. (And the jury is the only group here that's not subject to such restrictive rules, and most of the rules they do have can be disregarded as long as the jurist is willing to shut up or lie about why they did something.)

  18. #68
    Senior Member Wolfvegas's Avatar
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    my brother hit the house with a uhaul and didnt know so anythings possible...

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfvegas View Post
    my brother hit the house with a uhaul and didnt know so anythings possible...
    Did the house sit on your brother's windshield for over an hundred feet?

  20. #70
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    The windshield's smashed directly in front of the driver. You would think he'd notice a gaping hole surrounded by cracks right in front of him...

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by vol View Post
    Originally Posted by wphamilton
    And the victim's mother is an editor for a competing paper. http://www.henricocitizen.com/index....ring_lanie0803 which promises to monitor the legal proceedings. More than a bit awkward.
    And the driver is "the son of a local attorney".
    I'd hardly call The Henrico Citizen a competing paper. The Henrico Citizen is very small community newspaper. The Times-Dispatch is the largest newspaper in Richmond, by far, and they've been stellar thus far. Nothing awkward.

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by coolkat View Post
    The windshield's smashed directly in front of the driver. You would think he'd notice a gaping hole surrounded by cracks right in front of him...
    ....as she sat on his windshield for an hundred feet or so, and then he drove his car at night several miles with his windshield in that condition, without stopping. Sober? He's a bigger piece of **** if he was sober... No excuse.

  23. #73
    Vello Kombi, baby Poguemahone's Avatar
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    I'm going to explain a couple of things here.

    I've responded to at least two posters who felt the onus was on the cyclist here. In one case, the entire thread was removed; in the other the post (and my responce to the post) was removed. I assume this last was by the poster I responded to, who upon seeing my responce realized how idiotic his blame the cyclist stance now appeared. Lest anyone else take this tack:

    Despite what you may think you see on google maps, this road is relatively safe for cyclists. I have both ridden and driven this road for years, and am usually on it at least once a week. There is adequate room to pass and there is a very long sightline, right around 1/3 of a mile (I have recently measured it). The speed limit is a mild 35, dropping to 30 once the hill is crested.

    Further, the road crosses the James and then rises up a hill. This hill is where the collision took place. From the lower ground, you can quite clearly see obstacles way in front of you. The collision occured on this stretch of extremely visible ground. Given that the rider had lights at night, if anything she was more visible than she would have been in the daytime. In both night and daytime, riders are easily seen on this stretch. A driver would have to be semi-comatose to not register a cyclist on this stretch.

    There is only one person in this situation who was behaving foolishly. This is Mr. Webb, who continued to drive his car despite substantial evidence he was a truly awful and dangerous driver. If he had even a scintilla of personal responsibility, he would have turned in his driver's permit years ago.
    "It's always darkest right before it goes completely black"

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  24. #74
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    anti-cyclist nonsense has no place in a thread like this, and I will continue to delete or move such posts.

  25. #75
    Vello Kombi, baby Poguemahone's Avatar
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    I personally would rather such comments remain and are responded to properly. Northernlights was not abusive, but poorly informed.
    "It's always darkest right before it goes completely black"

    Waste your money! Buy my comic book!

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