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  1. #76
    Administrator CbadRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by northernlights View Post
    all I said was I thought the road was not safe for cycling and gave the reasons why I felt that way. how is that being anti-cyclist? you simply don't like hearing from anyone who doesn't share your opinion. I guess free speech isn't tolerated here.
    This is a private forum so any posts here need to conform to the forum guidelines. Stating that a cyclist riding lawfully on a busy street is "nuts" and playing Russian Roulette implies that they somehow share the responsibility if a wayward driver hits them, and is conducive to blaming the victim. That's not the type of atmosphere we want to encourage.
    Quote Originally Posted by toddles View Post
    So Tom only hires people that are nutty? Is part of the requirement to be a moderator on this site is that you have to be nuts??
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  2. #77
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    I've started a fundraiser (with benefits) to try to get down to Austin to receive the last gift Lanie gave to me before she was killed.
    Basically selling some prints of my paintings on the cheap to try to help make the trip possible. If you like any of my paintings, and want
    a print of it on your wall, it would be much appreciated. Please check it out, read the description of the Event and "share" on FB if you could. Thanks.

    https://www.facebook.com/events/294987507272714/

  3. #78
    Vello Kombi, baby Poguemahone's Avatar
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    Depressing update. Evidence Mr. Webb was drinking prior to the collision has been disallowed by the judge:

    http://www.timesdispatch.com/news/lo...a0fd4cedf.html

    Jury trial apparently begins next week.
    "It's always darkest right before it goes completely black"

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  4. #79
    Domestic Domestique UnsafeAlpine's Avatar
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    We need tough vulnerable road user laws. Until then, "I didn't see him" will be an excuse, not an admission of guilt.

  5. #80
    Senior Member howsteepisit's Avatar
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    Reading the latest news story, I noticed one more reason for hit-run-deny. Since the driver has not been charged with manslaughter, the court has held evidence relating to his having had some alcohol within a few hours before the accident is not admissible. THis seems to create a huge pay off as far as driving home to sober up before reporting that you have run someone over. The sentences for hit and run are far less than the one for vehicular manslaughter or killing someone while under the influence. The payoff for getting sober before reporting the accident, then claiming you did not know is pretty good.
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  6. #81
    pan y agua merlinextraligh's Avatar
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    The judge didn't exclude the evidence of alcohol consumption. She conditioned its admissability on the defendant testifying.

    Webb isn't charged with DUI. Thus, his alcohol consumption is of limited relavence to the crime he's charged with, and it would have a prejudicial effect, that the Judge determined outwieghed its relevance.

    However, if Webb testifies to his BS story that he didn't know he hit her, then the Alcohol consumption becomes relevant to impeach him, and gets admitted.

    I would have let it in anyway. However, the Judge definitely has a reasonable basis for her ruling, and she's taking away an appeal point that the Defendant could use on appeal to over turn a conviction.

    And she's put the defendant in a very tight box. Don't testify, and you've got virtually no defense; Testify and get hit with the alcohol hammer. Thus he's still ikely to get convicted, and the conviction has a better chance of withstanding an appeal.

    So don't get too upset just yet.
    You could fall off a cliff and die.
    You could get lost and die.
    You could hit a tree and die.
    OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.

  7. #82
    Senior Member himespau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
    The judge didn't exclude the evidence of alcohol consumption. She conditioned its admissability on the defendant testifying.

    Webb isn't charged with DUI. Thus, his alcohol consumption is of limited relavence to the crime he's charged with, and it would have a prejudicial effect, that the Judge determined outwieghed its relevance.

    However, if Webb testifies to his BS story that he didn't know he hit her, then the Alcohol consumption becomes relevant to impeach him, and gets admitted.

    I would have let it in anyway. However, the Judge definitely has a reasonable basis for her ruling, and she's taking away an appeal point that the Defendant could use on appeal to over turn a conviction.

    And she's put the defendant in a very tight box. Don't testify, and you've got virtually no defense; Testify and get hit with the alcohol hammer. Thus he's still ikely to get convicted, and the conviction has a better chance of withstanding an appeal.

    So don't get too upset just yet.
    Wow, a well thought, reasoned, calming response on the interwebz? Call me shocked.
    Punctuation is important. It's the difference between "I helped my uncle, Jack, off a horse" and "I helped my uncle Jack off a horse"


  8. #83
    Vello Kombi, baby Poguemahone's Avatar
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    I suspect the main reason Mr. Webb is not charged with a DUI is he ran from the accident scene and sobered up for three days prior to turning himself in, only doing so when it became clear the police had a good description of his vehicle and were closing in.

    I agree, it is clear why the evidence of Mr. Webb's drinking was not allowed. However, this is becoming a problem: drunks know they face a lesser charge if they flee. Under Virginia law, if you kill someone driving drunk, manslaughter charges can be filed. The charges Mr. Webb faces are lesser. In essence, we are giving him a free pass because he ran and hid.

    Mr. Webb will not testify, so there is no way this evidence will be presented. His lawyer is smart; he's probably trying to get rid of any and all evidence he can.
    "It's always darkest right before it goes completely black"

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  9. #84
    pan y agua merlinextraligh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poguemahone View Post
    However, this is becoming a problem: drunks know they face a lesser charge if they flee.
    For that reason the penalty for leaving the scene should always be more stringent than DUI, and not fleeing the scene, thus taking away the incentive to flee.
    You could fall off a cliff and die.
    You could get lost and die.
    You could hit a tree and die.
    OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.

  10. #85
    Randomhead
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    I know this is an emotional subject, but let's keep it civil please. Deleted a couple of posts

  11. #86
    24-Speed Machine Chris516's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
    The judge didn't exclude the evidence of alcohol consumption. She conditioned its admissability on the defendant testifying.

    Webb isn't charged with DUI. Thus, his alcohol consumption is of limited relavence to the crime he's charged with, and it would have a prejudicial effect, that the Judge determined outwieghed its relevance.

    However, if Webb testifies to his BS story that he didn't know he hit her, then the Alcohol consumption becomes relevant to impeach him, and gets admitted.

    I would have let it in anyway. However, the Judge definitely has a reasonable basis for her ruling, and she's taking away an appeal point that the Defendant could use on appeal to over turn a conviction.

    And she's put the defendant in a very tight box. Don't testify, and you've got virtually no defense; Testify and get hit with the alcohol hammer. Thus he's still ikely to get convicted, and the conviction has a better chance of withstanding an appeal.

    So don't get too upset just yet.
    Agreed. But the way the 'system' has a tendency to be prejudicial, towards motorists', somehow, a rabbit will be pulled out of the hat.

  12. #87
    Randomhead
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    In my experience, most systems are biased towards the survivors. Our society hasn't figured out how to keep murderers like Mr. Webb from driving, and so the bloodbath continues.

  13. #88
    Vello Kombi, baby Poguemahone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
    For that reason the penalty for leaving the scene should always be more stringent than DUI, and not fleeing the scene, thus taking away the incentive to flee.
    I would argue the penalties should be equal, but that is splitting hairs at best.

    I just wish drivers like Mr. Webb would have their permits taken away and burned, never to return. In my mind, any decision that allows Mr. Webb to drive again is inadequate. The "alleged" drinking only further highlights his utter lack of responsibility. Getting him-- and others like him-- out from behind the wheel of a car is a plus for all transport users, no matter their mode.
    "It's always darkest right before it goes completely black"

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  14. #89
    Cycle Year Round CB HI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
    For that reason the penalty for leaving the scene should always be more stringent than DUI, and not fleeing the scene, thus taking away the incentive to flee.
    That is something you and I can agree on.
    Land of the Free, Because of the Brave.

  15. #90
    Senior Member howsteepisit's Avatar
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    Only one problem of the pulling licenses permanently idea. I recently was working part time in a convenience store in Montana. You would be shocked at the number of drivers there are w/o licenses. I'd see them pull up in a car, come in to buy beer, check their ID and they had a State non-driver ID, which is what you get when you get a DUI and still need an ID. Seems like DUI is a state pastime in Montana, and since things are far apart and there is minimal to no public transportation available, people who have lost their legal permission to drive just drive anyway. Once again, there is insufficient incentives to keep people from driving without licenses or insurance, or in the lack of sobriety. I wish I knew an answer, but I don't.
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  16. #91
    Cycle Year Round CB HI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poguemahone View Post
    I would argue the penalties should be equal, but that is splitting hairs at best.
    The penalty should be much more severe for a hit and run than any other offense except first degree murder.

    There is often a chance the victim may survive if the motorist simply stops and calls 911. It is likely that many victims have bleed out (and/or been hit again) because 911 was not called. That disregard for even trying to help the victim deserves severe punishment.
    Land of the Free, Because of the Brave.

  17. #92
    Cycle Year Round CB HI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by howsteepisit View Post
    Only one problem of the pulling licenses permanently idea. I recently was working part time in a convenience store in Montana. You would be shocked at the number of drivers there are w/o licenses. I'd see them pull up in a car, come in to buy beer, check their ID and they had a State non-driver ID, which is what you get when you get a DUI and still need an ID. Seems like DUI is a state pastime in Montana, and since things are far apart and there is minimal to no public transportation available, people who have lost their legal permission to drive just drive anyway. Once again, there is insufficient incentives to keep people from driving without licenses or insurance, or in the lack of sobriety. I wish I knew an answer, but I don't.
    You could have called the cops and reported a license # and unlicensed driver headed whatever direction.

    But maybe the continued beer sales are more important?
    Land of the Free, Because of the Brave.

  18. #93
    Senior Member Commodus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
    For that reason the penalty for leaving the scene should always be more stringent than DUI, and not fleeing the scene, thus taking away the incentive to flee.
    absolutely...this is such good common sense it kinda makes you wonder how it came to be othewise.

  19. #94
    Vello Kombi, baby Poguemahone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by howsteepisit View Post
    Only one problem of the pulling licenses permanently idea. I recently was working part time in a convenience store in Montana. You would be shocked at the number of drivers there are w/o licenses. I'd see them pull up in a car, come in to buy beer, check their ID and they had a State non-driver ID, which is what you get when you get a DUI and still need an ID. Seems like DUI is a state pastime in Montana, and since things are far apart and there is minimal to no public transportation available, people who have lost their legal permission to drive just drive anyway. Once again, there is insufficient incentives to keep people from driving without licenses or insurance, or in the lack of sobriety. I wish I knew an answer, but I don't.
    Obviously, people drive w/o a permit. Estimates on Virginia roads are up to 10% of all drivers. More still drive lacking insurance (legal in Va. and a couple of other states). You'd have to increase penalties and fines for this behaviour, but the state legislature is reluctant to do so. The Kaine administration proposed thousand dollar fines for driving without a license, and the outcry against that was tremendous. There is no political will.

    Quote Originally Posted by CB HI View Post
    The penalty should be much more severe for a hit and run than any other offense except first degree murder.

    There is often a chance the victim may survive if the motorist simply stops and calls 911. It is likely that many victims have bleed out (and/or been hit again) because 911 was not called. That disregard for even trying to help the victim deserves severe punishment.
    You have made me rethink my earlier statement. Your point is entirely correct.

    In this case, however, it is pointless to think how it should be. We have to deal with the laws in place.
    Last edited by Poguemahone; 02-08-13 at 04:21 PM.
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  20. #95
    PatronSaintOfDiscBrakes dynaryder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CB HI View Post
    You could have called the cops and reported a license # and unlicensed driver headed whatever direction.
    But maybe the continued beer sales are more important?
    This. Most convenience stores have cameras,you could have shown the video to the cops as proof.

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  21. #96
    Senior Member howsteepisit's Avatar
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    Since I wanted to keep my meager job, I did not call any police. I was told that I would be fired for doing that. And it was more important to me to keep that 8.50 an hour coming in than to win a wrongful termination suit months later. I did informally talk to Sheriff deputies when they came in the store, they were aware, but in a county that is 100 miles long and with limited budget, they were not able to really do much about it, as long as no accidents or DUI were actually occurring. If we saw someone driving under the influence we did on occasion call but it had to be pretty egregious to actually make that call either. It is my belief that if one were to continually call in all DUI in that location the business would have gone under, as I said, it appears that DUI is a sport or pastime in Montana. These are the real world choices that exist, as opposed to the internet world. As a related aside, the last time I was renewing my DL there, I got into a conversation with the clerk at the DMV. She told me they have cases where they would actually see people park their cars in the lot across the street, come over to get their ID card after having their license suspended. They would not bother them because they were not enforcement officers, Thats the state of the state there.
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  22. #97
    pan y agua merlinextraligh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CB HI View Post
    That is something you and I can agree on.
    Of course there's irony in the emotican.
    You could fall off a cliff and die.
    You could get lost and die.
    You could hit a tree and die.
    OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.

  23. #98
    Vello Kombi, baby Poguemahone's Avatar
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    Judge reverses tack somewhat, and allows evidence of Webb's drinking if he made any statements to police or if impairment is part of the prosecution's case, along with photos of Mr. Webb's car and his victim's body:

    http://www.timesdispatch.com/news/lo...f13f4838f.html

    There should be updates over the next few days as the trial starts Monday and is scheduled to run until Wednesday.
    Last edited by Poguemahone; 02-09-13 at 06:30 AM.
    "It's always darkest right before it goes completely black"

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  24. #99
    Vello Kombi, baby Poguemahone's Avatar
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    Report on first day of trial:

    http://www.timesdispatch.com/news/lo...b57016d61.html

    Synopsis: Defence brought up drinking, no doubt to try and mitigate it. Witness say Mr. Webb was driving aggressively and tailgating other drivers. Mr. Webb claims he was looking at his cell phone at the time of the accident. Ms. Kruszewski's hair was found on the windshield of the car, right in front of Mr. Webb's face.
    "It's always darkest right before it goes completely black"

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  25. #100
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    A picture of the truck. He says he thought he hit a deer? Yeah, right.

    Webb-Vehicle.jpg

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