I Bike

Yes, I do all that "bracing"...lol. There are a lot of crazies out there...here (rural Maine).

I-Like-To-Bike

And that's your idea of how to "relax and have a good time" while bicycle riding? Have to agree with you about crazies.

CharlesZ

The references recommended are all outstanding. Thanks to all.

Here's a big problem I'm encountering-- fairly big intersection ( 2 lanes each way) and I want to make a left. There is a left turn lane. Traffc speed varies from 30-50 mph. Do I physically put myself in the left turn lane? That would mean crossing 2 lanes of traffic going in my direction to sit in the left turn lane. If I survive that maneuver, do I sit in the row of cars as if I were just another vehicle? Or cross the road when the light is in my favor and wait for the light to change in order to cross again. Hope this is not too confusing.

Myosmith

When you use your head, ride defensively, and take appropriate safety precautions, I don't belive that cycling is any more dangerous than driving a car or being a pedestrian. At least in my area, it is rare to hear of a cyclist being killed or seriously injured. Of those that are, many are young males who were not operating their bikes in a legal and responsible manner nor wearing a helmet. I can only think of one hit and run on a cycling commuter that resulted in serious injuries in the past couple of years.

sudo bike

Yes. Basically, you follow all laws everyone else on the road does, plus any laws particular from bikes. In most states, this entails keeping as far right as is safe. Other than that, pretty much all road interactions are theoretically the same as in a car. Check to make sure it's clear, merge over one lane at a time into the left turn lane, sit and wait with everyone else. How this will actually apply in practice may vary based on your particular situation.

delcrossv

I'be done both as the stiuation warrants (vehicular left or pedestrian left). If there's gaps in the stream of cars so I can get in the turn lane, that's what I do. And yes, I wait in line and take my turn like a car. If there's a long enough line that cars will accelerate faster than I can up to the intersection, I'll drift to the right of the turn lane and take my turn to the outside (right) of the cars. In really heavy traffic I have done a pedestrian right (allowed in Illinois) just 'cause it's less hassle but I feel less comfortable doing it.

spivonious

Depending on the traffic levels, I'll move over to the left turn lane (after signaling and checking that it's safe of course) and wait at the light, or I'll hop up on the sidewalk and pretend to be a pedestrian.

I wait in the middle of the turn lane to discourage other left-turning vehicles from passing me in the intersection. Once I'm through, I move back over to the right. This way, I'm as predictable as possible, and therefore, as safe as possible.

Daves_Not_Here

Not confusing at all. I think you've described the two approaches that cyclists generally use in your scenario -- (1) turn left like a car, or (2) go straight in the right lane and then cross like a pedestrian (or get in the "new" right lane and go straight again). If you are going to turn left like a car, I think most would recommend you sit in the row of cars rather than filtering up. Seems like option 2 is a good fallback when it feels too hairy to get over into the left turn lane.

These are only my opinions based on my personal experience -- I think there are others on this forum who are more knowledeable and may have different advice.

Antaresia

You also have to look at how many of those accidents were the fault of the cyclist, how many could have been prevented by the cyclist driving like they were invisible and everyone is trying to kill them, and how may of those accidents were 100% unavoidable by the cyclist. I think not riding like an idiot will reduce your chances of getting hit dramatically, I just assume I have to make up for other peoples mistakes and that probably reduces risk even more.

My habit of not entering an intersection until I'm sure intersecting traffic has actually *stopped* for the red light saved my life yesterday. Just because you have the right of way doesn't make other people any less stupid.

Last week I saw two different guys drafting SEMI trucks. I'd like to think they make up most of the "accident" statistics.

sudo bike

I don't know how I forgot to post this, which I always do whenever the question of merging to make a left turn comes up. This is the best video demonstrating how to act in traffic I've ever seen. Now, this particular video has a pretty darn good scenario, with fairly confined and slowish streets, but you get the idea. As I said, how much you can actually apply this will depend a lot on your situation. I've done just like on this video on 40 mph multi-lane roads no problem. I've had other intersections that were bad enough that it becomes harder to do this, and I try to avoid. YMMV.


Also, FWIW, I find behaving like this in traffic is far easier and way less stressful with a good mirror that allows you to see and keep tabs on what is behind you fairly easily. That's just me... some people don't like them. Again, YMMV.

CharlesZ

The video from sudo makes me think of jumping into a tank of sharks. There's a good chance nothing will happen, then again there's a good chance I'll be completely devoured.
I've been experimenting lately with taking the lane and behaving like an equal sharer of the road. Alot of these car drivers, to be blunt, get very pissed off. Slowing down for a couple of seconds just seems too much to ask.

sudo bike

It gets less stressful the more you do it. Generally, you behave confidently like you know what you are doing, and it's OK. It seems to be the worst for newbies as they are obviously more shaky about doing it, and drivers seem to latch onto that lack of confidence and intimidate them off the road. It's weird... I don't know if it is a conscious thing or just instinctive reaction after smelling fear . As I said though, your particular situation may make it more difficult... only you can make the call.

I think this is why LAB courses can sometimes be useful (or even club rides, or just with a friend that is used to operating in traffic). It helps you gain your confidence with experienced folks acting mostly as moral support.

Daves_Not_Here

Hey Charles -- what area of the country are you riding in? Maybe other people from your area can give you some insight as to how the local drivers tend to respond to cyclists in the lane. Based on posts in this forum, I tend to think it varies based on region.

My opinion is that if you are experiencing "alot" of angry drivers, that's a red-flag. But then again, I ride in Southern California, which has wide roads, courteous drivers, and lots of cyclists.

It might be helpful to specify the location where you are experiencing problems when you take the lane -- people here could google the street view and give you their advice.

Paul Barnard

In the video, what other options would the cyclists exercise?

njkayaker

I think part of the problem is that less-experienced cyclists wait too long to control the lane. More experienced cyclists start controlling the lane earlier and are less apt to surprise drivers.

njkayaker

What does "pissed off" mean? Horn honking? At least, if they are honking, they have seen you. My experience is that drivers are more likely to get pissed/impatient with groups of cyclists.

rando

Yes.

Ace X

1st of all, Whats life without a little danger. 2nd of all cycling is safer than driving. I've ridden in downtown Chicago, far more danger there. No matter what activity you are doing there is always a danger. Just go out have fun & DONT THINK ABOUT THE DANGER FACTOR or it will creep up on you.

Flying is safer if you want the truth. I do agree with the rest of what you are saying.

rekmeyata

Actually elevator transportation is the safest form of transportation created by modern man.

Like you said danger is something that if you think about it you can actually make yourself more susceptible to having something happen. Weird, but it does work that way. I knew guys who just knew they were going to die on a "hunting" trip, and most of the time they were right, most of the time those that didn't think that way came home. I use to live and ride in Los Angeles back in the 80's and never had a problem except once in Glendale and that wasn't all that bad just a dislocated shoulder, head was saved by my helmet, and a destroyed bike, but I rode in the LA area for 5 years almost everyday and never had any real issues. Today it's actually a lot safer to ride in LA then when I did. You do have to drive or ride being fully alert of your surroundings, you can't just pop in some ear plugs and sing lalalalalalalala while listening to some song as you pedal blissfully down a busy LA city street. You have to all your senses working for you and you got to be constantly scanning ahead and to the sides to know what traffic is doing or might do...and don't just focus in on the car in front of you, you have to see the cars ahead so you react better to things, and that may mean putting your bike so you can see the traffic in front of the car in front of you.

CharlesZ

Moving into the roadway to avoid a large puddle on the shoulder, maybe 25 ft long, on a lightly trafficked roadway, when a van passes me at high speed moving into oncoming traffic. The delay I would have cost him had he just let me traverse this puddle might have been 2.5 seconds but instead his impatience created a bad situation for him, me, and the oncoming car. When someone behaves towards me like I'm a nuisance, I rate them pissed off.

I-Like-To-Bike

Your encounter reads like you "moved into the roadway" right in front of an approaching high speed van expecting him to slow down and yield to you, rather than you wait the estimated 2.5 seconds for him to safely pass by, before YOU "moved into the roadway." All in order to keep your tires dry.

When someone drives or bicycles like that I rate them as careless to the point of being reckless.

rekmeyata

Exactly, a huge plus 1!

CharlesZ

[QUOTE=I-Like-To-Bike;14685614]Your encounter reads like you "moved into the roadway" right in front of an approaching high speed van expecting him to slow down and yield to you, rather than you wait the estimated 2.5 seconds for him to safely pass by, before YOU "moved into the roadway." All in order to keep your tires dry.

I just don't go that fast where I cut drivers off. The traffic from the rear was at least 100 yds behind when I moved into the lane to get past that puddle. This is a 40 mph roadway, this "puddle" was not rideable. This van stunned me when he caught me and just went into the oncoming lane. We are talking about split seconds that the guy would have lost had he just eased off the gas and then let me settle back onto the shoulder. It doesn't matter though. I'm a realist. A bike will never win with a car, fair or unfair. I ride to survive. Let others argue right of way.

rekmeyata

[QUOTE=CharlesZ;14687461]A 100 yards? So what? Earlier you said 2.5 seconds, regardless assuming 100 yards at 40 mph that's about 8 seconds to travel that distance. So why didn't you slow down and let the driver pass you safely until you could go around the puddle? Or why not crank all out and get past the puddle before the driver got to you? I'm sorry but you didn't plan ahead, this is careless and reckless and it could have killed you. So if we, or I, seem a little rough it's because we don't want to see dead cyclists on the side of the road.

CharlesZ

[QUOTE=rekmeyata;14688547] I'll be the first to admit that at my speed and seeing cars approach from behind, I do have a difficult time assessing the speed of the oncoming vehicle. It's hard to tell how fast they're moving and how much time it will take for them to overtake you.
Having said that, this scenario was not that. I also misrepresented the "puddle". This was flooding that had washed into the right third of the road. Impassable by bike. If I were another car the van would not have passed me. I see his act as a flagrant act of disrespect for me as a vehicle legally on the roadway. I've been riding for some time and you'll have to trust me on this one. I'll always "hold the door" for a motorized vehicle. This guy wasn't going to be slowed.