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Old 09-28-12, 12:37 PM   #1
mattotoole
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Great wrong-way cycling video - w/ candid response from dep. police chief

What started out to be a ride the other day wound up as several of us standing around on a corner, observing wrong-way riders. So Frank shot this video:

http://bikenewportbeach.org/32nd-street/

Infrastructure problem? Or just cyclists "breaking the law?"

Don't miss the deputy police chief's refreshingly candid comment.
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Old 09-28-12, 01:32 PM   #2
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It's both. People are breaking the law, but I don't believe that most of them realize it. The proposed solution of having street markings indicating where bicycles should be traveling sounds good to me. Possibly also accompanied by signs or paint on the sidewalks indicating that you shouldn't be biking there. I think if you get most of the bikers going the correct direction, it'll make the potential salmon more likely to follow suit.
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Old 09-29-12, 07:47 PM   #3
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Provided cycling on sidewalks is legal those cyclist going the wrong way but staying on the sidewalks and within the crosswalks (admittedly the significant minority) in that video are cycling legally although the safety of sidewalk riding in either direction is debatable to say the least.

Those cyclist riding on the roadway against traffic, they are true salmon and should all be ticketed and their bikes impounded on the spot and held until their ticket is paid in full.

But then again I'm severely biased against salmon bikers after being significantly injured by one of them and them failing to pay up even after a court judgement was made against him to cover my medical expenses (which were minor considering the accident and were barely a five digit figure) when the salmon biker in question was fully able to pay and had an expensive house and lots of expensive toys the sale of which any one of which would have more then covered the cost and I have reason to believe that his lawyer cost him more then paying up would have and won against him when he had a high powered lawyer and I represented myself as the plaintiff, and believe me if you win representing yourself as the plaintiff against a hired gun high end attorney on the defense side you have one heck of an airtight case.

Last edited by turbo1889; 09-29-12 at 07:57 PM.
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Old 09-29-12, 11:07 PM   #4
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It's both. People are breaking the law, but I don't believe that most of them realize it. The proposed solution of having street markings indicating where bicycles should be traveling sounds good to me. Possibly also accompanied by signs or paint on the sidewalks indicating that you shouldn't be biking there. I think if you get most of the bikers going the correct direction, it'll make the potential salmon more likely to follow suit.
I think the latter suggestion is interesting, since people seem far more likely to comply when they are being called out. That is, if nothing expressly says "No bikes on the sidewalk" or what have you, people are more likely to either a) be ignorant of the fact they aren't supposed to or b) even if they do know, they'll be more likely to try doing it anyway if they're more comfortable. People seem to be more uncomfortable doing something when there is a sign right next to them saying not to do that something. Another example is smoking: At least at my campus, even though the law is no smoking within 20 ft of a building, people are more likely to ignore it unless they are standing right next to a sign that expressly says "no smoking". Guessing it has something to do with worry about societal judgment, or something like that.
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Old 09-30-12, 02:17 AM   #5
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In watching the video and seeing most of the traffic turning left, it appears that the cyclists on "the wrong side of the street" are avoiding most of the turning traffic and are taking the safest path through the area.

It is great to see an entire family head to the beach on their bikes instead of taking the car.

Getting them on the other side of the road, to negotiate through a lot of turning/crossing "left hook" traffic does not seem like a valid solution.

How about a "bike boulevard" following the current route that most cyclists are taking with some added safety protections?

Cheers
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Old 09-30-12, 12:34 PM   #6
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It's both. People are breaking the law, but I don't believe that most of them realize it. The proposed solution of having street markings indicating where bicycles should be traveling sounds good to me. Possibly also accompanied by signs or paint on the sidewalks indicating that you shouldn't be biking there. I think if you get most of the bikers going the correct direction, it'll make the potential salmon more likely to follow suit.
+1
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Old 09-30-12, 06:44 PM   #7
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All the people in the video appeared to be vacationers to me. Therefore, they probably don't know/understand or care about proper cycling.

They seem to be part of that group that seems to think cycling into traffic is somehow safer.

Signs, paint and public awareness in the form of signage that actually explains road etiquette much like you would see on most MUP's of any significant length.
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Old 09-30-12, 10:34 PM   #8
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All the people in the video appeared to be vacationers to me. Therefore, they probably don't know/understand or care about proper cycling.

They seem to be part of that group that seems to think cycling into traffic is somehow safer.

Signs, paint and public awareness in the form of signage that actually explains road etiquette much like you would see on most MUP's of any significant length.
Totally agree about the signage. I think almost none of these cyclists know better, and I don't see any other practical way to get out the message.

I had posted another thread about signage in Long Beach -- we have lots of beach going traffic, and very little salmoning. But we have large signs all over the city that specifically say ride with, not against traffic.
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Old 10-01-12, 12:17 AM   #9
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Here's a satellite view of the intersection. I'm guessing these casual cyclists don't know what to do when going straight through an intersection with a dedicated right turn only lane? Why they would think it's OK to cut across two oncoming lanes of traffic and salmon through though the pedestrian crossing is truly bizarre. Part of the blame must go to the cross walks appearing to "funnel" all foot traffic to that side of the road. Putzing along at 10mph on a beach cruiser does sort of limit the danger factor IMO but the right hook danger is always there. I encounter far more runners salmoning in the bike lane than bikes.




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Old 10-01-12, 11:27 AM   #10
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Getting them on the other side of the road, to negotiate through a lot of turning/crossing "left hook" traffic does not seem like a valid solution.
I don't see any left hook danger. The cars turning left appear to have dedicated left turn arrows timed so that they don't coincide with oncoming through traffic. You can see this in the first 15-20 seconds of the video.
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Old 10-01-12, 11:58 AM   #11
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While I don't like seeing salmoning, I'd rather have them salmon than drive their cars to the beach. A painted bike lane would definitely help in this case.
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Old 10-01-12, 12:28 PM   #12
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Sharrows might get the point across to both wrong-way riders and MV drivers...
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Old 10-01-12, 02:41 PM   #13
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I have to agree with the comments here about adding sharrows or painted bike lanes -- as currently laid out, it seems that the pedestrian infrastructure is leading the cyclists to ride the wrong way.

It also doesn't help that in this area, the lanes are relatively narrow and traffic is congested and frenetic -- I can't see beach cruisers being comfortable to ride in the traffic unless there are sharrows and the traffic is calmed.
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Old 10-05-12, 10:41 PM   #14
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Provided cycling on sidewalks is legal those cyclist going the wrong way but staying on the sidewalks and within the crosswalks (admittedly the significant minority) in that video are cycling legally although the safety of sidewalk riding in either direction is debatable to say the least.
It isn't even defensible in CA; the state law requires that cyclists stay off of sidewalks and on the correct (right) side of the road to a reasonable degree. Though, this is not enforced in the slightest degree out there (I lived in OC for a stint).
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Old 10-06-12, 01:50 AM   #15
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It isn't even defensible in CA; the state law requires that cyclists stay off of sidewalks and on the correct (right) side of the road to a reasonable degree. Though, this is not enforced in the slightest degree out there (I lived in OC for a stint).
Do you have a cite for this? I was under the impression local municipalities have the authority to allow or disallow sidewalk riding; they just can't restrict a cyclist's right to use the roadway even if sidewalk cycling is allowed. As to enforced, I've seen cops pop cyclists for going against traffic, but this was always on one-way streets where it was obviously causing problems. Other than that, yeah, enforcement is really thin... can vary depending on location within California.
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Old 10-06-12, 08:17 AM   #16
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Here's a satellite view of the intersection.

Looking at the photo, it autocentricity at it's best, with prioritized catering to motorized traffic, and provisions for non motorized traffic coming in a distant second. Persons on foot or sidewalk riding, crossing from the right or left of the photoed intersection, would have to corn maze their way across the intersection. The intersection needs a total rethink so it can be better suited for all forms of traffic, hopefully that the original designer has been retired or fired.
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Old 10-07-12, 08:53 PM   #17
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I was there today. There's a lot of casual riders who stick to the sidewalk against traffic. The roads were laid out about 100 years ago- there's not a lot of room for bike lanes heading South. Sorry, this is a the bike rider's problem to deal with.

I've been riding about 40 years down the peninsula. There's so many bikes there now that we rule the streets.
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Old 10-14-12, 10:57 PM   #18
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It isn't even defensible in CA; the state law requires that cyclists stay off of sidewalks and on the correct (right) side of the road to a reasonable degree. Though, this is not enforced in the slightest degree out there (I lived in OC for a stint).
Hey J, there is no California state law against riding a bike on a sidewalk. California state law does allow cities and counties (municipalities) to restrict sidewalk cycling.
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