Myosmith

Every state I've lived in has had right on red in their traffic codes and it works just fine if people actually bother to read and follow the law the way it is written. ROR is treated much the same way as coming to a stop sign. As genec mentioned, you are supposed to come to a full stop and then proceed when the way is clear. You still have to yeild to crossing traffic or left turning traffic that has the right of way. ROR is not permission to completely ignore the light nor does it give you the right of way. ROR gives you permission to proceed after a legal stop, when you have a clear lane, but before the light turns green. Its a nice law to have if people use it correctly as it can prevent some unnecessary long waits at intersections, but abused it can result in some nasty accidents.

genec

This is the case.. two left turn lanes. And bear in mind that I am on the outside of the furthest right lane.

iconicflux

I have an intersection near my house where this type of thing is always happening but I see a lot worse than just the ROR. Fortunately it's something you only have to deal with if you're a car...

There's a stop with 3 lanes facing west (Right turn-only, straight, left turn-only). I've been noticing a very large number of drivers don't like to wait at the light because it backs up so they get in the straight through lane and then make a left. There are two lanes there but the next right that most people take is within a short enough distance that you get it by turning into the far right lane instead of the left lane.

5 times in the last 2 weeks I've had some asshat turn left on the straight arrow because (I assume) they don't want to miss the light by waiting for all the people going left in the left-only lane. I've finally decided to just drive as I would normally drive and they can piss off. Twice now I've had some asshat get all angry that I wont let him turn into my lane from the right straight through lane.

This is fortunately an exit from a highway that's above the speed limit for bikes. If it weren't this corner would probably kill at least one cyclist a year.

Maybe I'll go over there with my cameras and record it.

CB HI

If the double left turn guide line routed you into the farthest right lane, then the motorist is a JAM and deserved a ticket.

That would be an intersection that the "Yield to left turning" sign would be appropriate, rather than the intersections they are now going up in.

mnemia

The problem is that, in practice, motorists almost NEVER follow those rules for RoR. I think it could be reasonably safe for everyone (pedestrians and cyclists included), if they did follow the rules for yielding right-of-way and coming to a complete stop before turning, but in the real world I'd guess that it's less than 10% of motorists that actually do that for pedestrians. They mostly just yield to other motorists; ie, those vehicles that pose a threat to themselves. If there isn't enough enforcement of traffic laws to encourage a higher compliance rate than that, then I would have to agree that the law itself is a fatally flawed idea. Most motorists simply aren't skilled enough or careful enough to be trusted with laws that require that everyone follow the rules all of the time in order to be safe.

mnemia

One of the most common "sloppy" driving techniques I see people engage in is turning into the wrong lane. The problem is that this kind of behavior gets reinforced because a) no one ever gets a ticket for it, and b) it doesn't result in a crash most of the time, except until it does.

CbadRider

I have a big problem with this at several intersections that allow left or U turns. I'm waiting to turn right and the cars on the cross street can make a left or U turn. I always wait to make sure no cars are making a U turn. I have had people behind me lay on their horns because I'm not moving. One guy actually drove around me and made his turn right as a car did a U, almost smashing into it.

I've also been the person making the U turn and almost plowed into the right turning people, and they get angry at me because I cut off their turn. It's like having to wait an extra 10-15 seconds is intolerable to some drivers.

genec

They should not need a yield to left turning, if their light is red... such a sign is just as redundant as the Turning traffic must yield to crossing pedestrians signs that are now popping up in so many places. The law gives the pedestrians ROW with a cross signal, but Right on red motorists fail to heed their requirement to stop and wait... meaning ROR is broken... Redundant signs to tell motorists to do what they should know and do is an indication of a failed system.

iconicflux

I wish police would start a campaign to let drivers know that when you try to go around a driver because of your impatience, that's when people die. That's EXACTLY how that 4yo kid was injured and the guy that threw the kid out of the way was killed.

msvphoto

If it makes you feel better, this happened recently to me while driving a full size white Ford F150 pickup truck! The idiot that ran the red light (right on red/yield situation) actually honked at me too, even though it was my green left turn arrow light and theirs was red. I can buy "they didn't see you" on a bike (though I do not think that is an acceptable excuse) but a huge white truck?!

The horn is a good idea, might save my vocal chords

Chris516

It is that stupid thing of 'my vehicle is bigger than your vehicle', so they think that gives them priority regardless of the law.

CB HI

Agreed, I only mention the signs because they are being put up at intersections where they should not be on Oahu. Even a bigger fail of the system when you have to take away a proper ROR so those that do not have ROR do not crash. It re-enforces the lack of understanding of the laws.

ChrisM2097

A couple months ago, I had someone do the same thing to me. I had a line of cars behind me, and this guy, after making his right turn, stopped in the bike lane, forcing me to pass him on the left. I threw my hands up, so as to gesture, "what the heck are you doing?". He then pulled up next to me, rolled down the window, started yelling at me, and then proceeded to attempt to run me into the curb. I hit my brakes, and he sped off.

Some teenage kids saw what happened, got in front of the guy, and slowed him down considerably (I was able to catch up and pass them at ~17mph in a 40mph zone). He wasn't too happy about that.

genec

This wasn't quite that bad... but nearly so... with all the waving and gesturing going on... I just pointed to his light and said... RED. Of course through his rolled up window, that meant nothing.... I only had a couple of cars behind me.... they just stopped too. I think they too were wondering... uh, what's this guy doing.

Interestedly on that same road there is a center area that is a painted island... and down at the end it gives way to the left turn lanes... recently the other "trick" I have seen is motorists using that center painted island as a left turn lane all the way to the actual left turn lane. I just keep wondering where these folks learned to drive.

B. Carfree

You've got some mighty-fine teenagers where you live.

ChrisM2097

They were curious about the actions they witnessed. They asked me why he tried to run me off the road. My response was simply, "Because he ran a red light."

On the opposite end of the spectrum, I had another encounter with a car full of teenagers while commuting home - but it wasn't so pleasant. I saw the car approaching somewhat slowly in my rear-view, but couldn't quite hear it, so I knew they were coasting. They got up next to me, stuck their heads and arms out the window, and started screaming at me - apparently in an attempt to scare me. Maybe they were recording it and hoping for a youtube-worthy reaction? I wasn't about to give it to them.

gcottay

Yep, that does happen but, since the motor vehicle is right there in front of me it's never been a big problem.

Daves_Not_Here

I'm not positive, but I think it's a traffic violation to change lanes in an intersection. If you're in the far left lane, isn't the correct turn into the left lane, and an illegal lane change if you turn into the right lane?

Another example -- you're stopped on the east side of an intersection facing west, and about to turn ROR to proceed north. A northbound car is approaching the intersection from the south to proceed straight and is in their left lane. You see the right lane is clear, so you turn ROR. Meanwhile, the approaching car changes from left lane to right lane in the middle of the intersection and hits you. I believe it is the intention to prevent just these kinds of collisions as to why it is illegal to change lanes in the middle of an intersection.

Questions:
1. Does a driver who is making an illegal lane change have the ROW over a driver turning ROR?
2. Is a left turn from the far left lane into the right most lane an illegal lane change?

CB HI

You do not bother to actually read through the thread before you comment on the OP do you?

Try reading post 27 and the quote Genec responds to, in which it is made clear Genec was in the right lane of double left turn lanes. Genec's lane is the same lane that the right turning motorist tried to illegally insert himself.

Daves_Not_Here

Apparently not

Myosmith

In that case it sounds like you had the right of way the the ROR driver failed to wait until they had a clear lane before proceding. Unfortunately, there is a lot of abuse or, if you want to give motorists the benefit of the doubt, misunderstanding, of ROR. I see a lot of drivers who don't come to a full stop or who try to merge with crossing or left turning lines of traffic rather than stopping or waiting. In general, I see a lot of motorists flat out ignore cyclists and drive as if they were not even there.

Yesterday I was out for just an hour or so and had two incidents with drivers. One young lady pulled out from a parallel parking space right in front of me with no signal or, as far as I could tell, even looking. The other instance was more unsettling as an older woman in a big sedan was westbound and I was eastbound on a residential two-way street. The speed limit was 20 and I was doing between 15 and 18 mph. I saw her look straight at me but still she turned left across my path without even signalling. I had to get on my brakes fairly hard for that one. I'm a big guy wearing a long sleeve red jersey, silver helmet, on a red bike with white trim and brushed aluminum fittings. There is no way she shouldn't have seen me as we were the only traffic for a couple of blocks in either direction and it was a clear afternoon.

Honestly, I don't know what (or if) some drivers are thinking.

Daves_Not_Here

I think that 15+ mph for a cyclists is faster than a lot of (older?) motorists expect -- I think they are accustomed to seeing children or beach cruisers at 5 mph. She could have assumed you were moving at a pedestrian pace and gave the same clearance.

Myosmith

I suspect you may be correct.

Dchiefransom

It's legal in California to change lanes in an intersection. With two left turn lanes, the person in the left lane must turn into the left-most lane, but the person in the right hand left turn lane may take any lane to the right of the left lane.

adamhenry

You may change lanes only when it is safe to do so. If the lane change in the intersection is deemed to cause an unsafe situation, it could result in a ticket. It would be a judgement call and this pertains to any lane change.