Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10-12-12, 07:36 AM   #1
rydabent
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
rydabent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Lincoln Ne
Bikes: RANS Stratus TerraTrike Cruiser
Posts: 5,764
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 166 Post(s)
How about this suggestion

Some of the most dangerous motorist on the roads these days are cell phone users. They are especially dangerous to cyclist.

So I propose this. Almost all new cell phones have a GPS chip. I suggest they be programed to shut down the cell phone if the phone is moving faster than 10 mph. Some may think that is extreme, but think of the lives and crashes it would prevent. If it your call is that important, pull over, make the call and then continue on your way!!!
rydabent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-12, 07:54 AM   #2
RobertFrapples
all-weather commuter
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Rochester, NY
Bikes: Graham Cycles Kilo-Graham all season fat bike, and a few others
Posts: 314
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
So passengers in cars, buses, trains, and subways cannot use their phones? Non-starter.
RobertFrapples is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-12, 08:11 AM   #3
GraysonPeddie
Senior Member
 
GraysonPeddie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Tallahassee, FL 32304, USA
Bikes: Trek Pure Trike (recently bought)
Posts: 352
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Yeah. Be careful what you wish for. How does a cell phone know if you are a driver of a motor vehicle?
GraysonPeddie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-12, 08:23 AM   #4
tagaproject6
Goodbye Leeroy Jenkins
 
tagaproject6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Bikes: Wilier Izoard XP (Campagnolo Record);Cinelli Xperience (SRAM Force);Specialized Allez (SRAM Rival);Bianchi Via Nirone 7 (Campagnolo Centaur)
Posts: 7,061
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
No.
tagaproject6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-12, 08:30 AM   #5
spivonious
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Lancaster, PA, USA
Bikes: 2012 Trek Allant, 2016 Bianchi Volpe Disc
Posts: 1,857
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertFrapples View Post
So passengers in cars, buses, trains, and subways cannot use their phones? Non-starter.
Bingo. And what about hands-free cell phones? It's been shown to cause no more of an issue than talking with a passenger.
spivonious is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-12, 09:28 AM   #6
welshTerrier2
Senior Member
 
welshTerrier2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Bikes:
Posts: 178
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by spivonious View Post
Bingo. And what about hands-free cell phones? It's been shown to cause no more of an issue than talking with a passenger.
The research I've seen about cell phones and driving suggests that hands-free cell phones are not any safer than hand-held. Some studies suggest they may even be more dangerous.

Here are a couple of articles on the subject:

Are Hands Free Cell Phones Any Safer (Science Daily)

Do Hands-Free Cell Phones Make Driving Safer? Not So Fast (PC World)

We struggle with these issues of public safety versus individual freedoms. Issues like helmets, seat belts and using cell phones while driving are highly controversial. When individual liberties bump up against societal goods and bads, it seems we are forced to navigate without a common sense of direction. We are poorer for that.
welshTerrier2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-12, 09:38 AM   #7
cderalow
Senior Member
 
cderalow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Potomac, MD
Bikes: 2012 GT Transeo 3 2014 Cannondale CAAD 10 105
Posts: 705
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
how would one notify the police if youre driving a toyota with a stuck gas pedal?

honestly, re:trains, busses etc... i hate people that are talking on a phone on said object because the simple motion is generally enough that they feel the need to talk loud enough for everyone in a 50' radius to hear.
cderalow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-12, 09:54 AM   #8
I-Like-To-Bike
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Posts: 23,857
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
Some of the most dangerous motorist on the roads these days are cell phone users. They are especially dangerous to cyclist.

So I propose this. Almost all new cell phones have a GPS chip. I suggest they be programed to shut down the cell phone if the phone is moving faster than 10 mph. Some may think that is extreme, but think of the lives and crashes it would prevent. If it your call is that important, pull over, make the call and then continue on your way!!!
Non starter as a solution to the alleged "problem,"as pointed out by other posters.

Before coming up with drastic solutions maybe you should establish the seriousness of the alleged problem. Besides being common knowledge/conventional wisdom, what solid evidence is there for your premise that cell phone users ARE in fact (accident data, not theories) more dangerous than other motorists on the road, or are "especially dangerous to cyclists?"
I-Like-To-Bike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-12, 10:00 AM   #9
delcrossv 
Senior Member
 
delcrossv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Scalarville
Bikes:
Posts: 1,459
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by spivonious View Post
Bingo. And what about hands-free cell phones? It's been shown to cause no more of an issue than talking with a passenger.
Really? I find that hard to believe. I've found hands free users still to be pretty distracted (although not as bad as those that use the handset).

Better would be stiff penalites for cell phone use on the road (like Germany)
__________________
Lightning P-38 / M5 M-Racer/Ryan Vanguard
delcrossv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-12, 10:07 AM   #10
mconlonx 
Nobody
 
mconlonx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 7,164
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 687 Post(s)
While it's been shown that cell phone using MV drivers are as dangerous as drunk drivers, automatic cell phone shut down is not the solution. Just like most cars don't come with breathalizer immobilization devices...
__________________
I know next to nothing. I am frequently wrong.
mconlonx is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-12, 10:07 AM   #11
delcrossv 
Senior Member
 
delcrossv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Scalarville
Bikes:
Posts: 1,459
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
Non starter as a solution to the alleged "problem,"as pointed out by other posters.

Before coming up with drastic solutions maybe you should establish the seriousness of the alleged problem. Besides being common knowledge/conventional wisdom, what solid evidence is there for your premise that cell phone users ARE in fact (accident data, not theories) more dangerous than other motorists on the road, or are "especially dangerous to cyclists?"
Not cyclist specific, but I think impairment is pretty solidly proven. For Example:
http://www.psych.utah.edu/AppliedCog...ssment2003.pdf
__________________
Lightning P-38 / M5 M-Racer/Ryan Vanguard
delcrossv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-12, 10:10 AM   #12
Doohickie 
You gonna eat that?
 
Doohickie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Fort Worth, Texas Church of Hopeful Uncertainty
Bikes: 1966 Raleigh DL-1 Tourist, 1973 Schwinn Varsity, 1983 Raleigh Marathon, 1994 Nishiki Sport XRS
Posts: 14,460
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 43 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by spivonious View Post
Bingo. And what about hands-free cell phones? It's been shown to cause no more of an issue than talking with a passenger.
Incorrect. Hands free has been shown to be every bit distracting as talking into a handset. The problem is that the person on the other end of the line is not aware of the traffic the driver is in. If the person you're talking to is in the car, they can see complex traffic patterns and can shut the hell up (or even shout a warning) if things are getting dicey. Someone on a cell phone connection won't know that.
__________________
I stop for people / whose right of way I honor / but not for no one.



Originally Posted by bragi "However, it's never a good idea to overgeneralize."
Doohickie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-12, 10:11 AM   #13
spivonious
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Lancaster, PA, USA
Bikes: 2012 Trek Allant, 2016 Bianchi Volpe Disc
Posts: 1,857
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by delcrossv View Post
Not cyclist specific, but I think impairment is pretty solidly proven. For Example:
http://www.psych.utah.edu/AppliedCog...ssment2003.pdf
I'd love to see that study done but comparing hands-free cell phone users with people talking to passengers, or with kids screaming in the backseat, or changing a CD, or drinking a coffee, applying makeup, shaving, reading the newspaper, etc., etc..

Distracted driving is the problem, not cell phones.
spivonious is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-12, 10:31 AM   #14
delcrossv 
Senior Member
 
delcrossv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Scalarville
Bikes:
Posts: 1,459
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by spivonious View Post
I'd love to see that study done but comparing hands-free cell phone users with people talking to passengers, or with kids screaming in the backseat, or changing a CD, or drinking a coffee, applying makeup, shaving, reading the newspaper, etc., etc..

Distracted driving is the problem, not cell phones.
...with cell phones being one of the biggest distractions. I've never seen people become so oblivious to what's going on around them as cell phone users. There's something special about phones- and not in a good way.

If you ever see someone driving erratically, even money they're on a phone.
__________________
Lightning P-38 / M5 M-Racer/Ryan Vanguard
delcrossv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-12, 10:47 AM   #15
jon c. 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Bikes:
Posts: 2,072
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 57 Post(s)
Talking on cells is distracting. Texting is much worse. The other day I was passed by a guy who had a laptop open on the passenger seat and was using it as he drove. At 60 mph. He veered off into the bike lane about 100 yards past me. Not sure if he ever realized I existed. We can, and should, have laws covering distracted driving, but with all the devices available today it won't cease to be a problem.
jon c. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-12, 10:51 AM   #16
I-Like-To-Bike
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Posts: 23,857
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by delcrossv View Post
If you ever see someone driving erratically, even money they're on a phone.
My even money guess is if you see anyone driving they're on a cell phone. So whatz your point?

The rest may be looking for it, or they're smokes, eating or unwrapping a sandwich, chatting with a passenger, or scolding the kids, or adjusting the radio.
I-Like-To-Bike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-12, 10:57 AM   #17
ItsJustMe
Seņior Member
 
ItsJustMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Michigan
Bikes: Windsor Fens, Giant Seek 0 (2014, Alfine 8 + discs)
Posts: 13,140
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 86 Post(s)
Actually, hands-free doesn't help that much. It's still significantly more dangerous than talking to a passenger.

Citation:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_...ndsfree_device

"Driving while using a handsfree cellular device is not safer than using a hand held cell phone, as concluded by case-crossover studies.[19][20] epidemiological,[1][2] simulation,[9] and meta-analysis.[11][12] The increased cognitive workload involved in holding a conversation, not the use of hands, causes the increased risk.[21][22][23] For example, a Carnegie Mellon University study found that merely listening to somebody speak on a phone caused a 37% drop in activity in the parietal lobe, where spatial tasks are managed.[24]"
__________________
Work: the 8 hours that separates bike rides.
ItsJustMe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-12, 12:11 PM   #18
Keith99
Senior Member
 
Keith99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 5,866
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Our most recent car is pretty much keyless. No big deal there, but it also has a feature that makes it all but inpossible to lock your keys in the trunk. It can tell where the keys are.

In 10-20 years I expect we could have something doing a forced shutoff or police notification when a phone is being used in the drivers seat and the vehicle is in motion.

Or we could go in ht eother direction and have the stupidity of replaceing buttons with touch screens that some car companies are pushing.
Keith99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-12, 12:15 PM   #19
delcrossv 
Senior Member
 
delcrossv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Scalarville
Bikes:
Posts: 1,459
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
My even money guess is if you see anyone driving they're on a cell phone. So whatz your point?

The rest may be looking for it, or they're smokes, eating or unwrapping a sandwich, chatting with a passenger, or scolding the kids, or adjusting the radio.
No, there's a noticable difference if they're on the phone. That's the point. And no, not everyone is on the phone so extrapolations to include the whole class don't fly.
__________________
Lightning P-38 / M5 M-Racer/Ryan Vanguard
delcrossv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-12, 12:40 PM   #20
Chris516
24-Speed Machine
 
Chris516's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Wash. Grove, MD
Bikes: 2003 Specialized Allez 24-Speed Road Bike
Posts: 6,054
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
Some of the most dangerous motorist on the roads these days are cell phone users. They are especially dangerous to cyclist.

So I propose this. Almost all new cell phones have a GPS chip. I suggest they be programmed to shut down the cell phone if the phone is moving faster than 10 mph. Some may think that is extreme, but think of the lives and crashes it would prevent. If it your call is that important, pull over, make the call and then continue on your way!!!
I second that, but with one amendment to it. The phone shuts down, except for still being able to call Fire/EMS
Chris516 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-12, 12:44 PM   #21
B. Carfree
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Eugene, Oregon
Bikes:
Posts: 6,302
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 86 Post(s)
Like most issues involving life/injury versus convenience and money, this one will not be resolved legislatively. However, there is a chance that the courts might step in and slap the service providers for not shutting down the phones when they are moving at traffic speeds. It's only going to take one victim successfully going after the provider to make this standard.

For all those who are so concerned about a passenger's ability to use the phone: what is the median number of occupants of a motor vehicle in the U.S.? One! Okay, I cheated a bit. Since the majority of cars have one person in them but some have more than one, the average is slightly larger, but is still damned near one. I just don't see the convenience of the rare passengers' use of phones as outweighing basic public safety.

We instituted vehicle codes and licenses for motorists in response to the CARnage of motorists in the early days of the automobile in the interest of public safety at great inconvenience to motorists. It's time to inconvenience motorists again since they won't behave responsibly without assistance.

If I sound a bit hot under the collar at what I consider to be a narcissistic attitude towards driving while distracted by electronic toys, it's because I have had to take extreme evasive action to avoid being killed by these phone zombies numerous times in the past month. I honestly can't believe anyone who actually rides in areas with cell phone reception hasn't had similar close calls at the hands of the phone zombies. Oh yeah, I forgot. This is A&S where (almost) no one rides.
B. Carfree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-12, 12:54 PM   #22
rumrunn6
Senior Member
 
rumrunn6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: 25 miles northwest of Boston
Bikes: Bottecchia Sprint
Posts: 14,270
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 160 Post(s)
I think the following is true:
it's not illegal for an adult to talk on a cell phone while driving.
it is illegal for a junior drivert to talk on a cell while driving.
it is illegal for anyone to text while driving, and the car doesn't have to be moving at the time, for example at a red light, or pulled over on the side of the road
rumrunn6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-12, 01:04 PM   #23
mconlonx 
Nobody
 
mconlonx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 7,164
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 687 Post(s)
...or you could go the illegal-in-the-USA route and ride with a cell-phone jammer...
__________________
I know next to nothing. I am frequently wrong.
mconlonx is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-12, 01:07 PM   #24
welshTerrier2
Senior Member
 
welshTerrier2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Bikes:
Posts: 178
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rumrunn6 View Post
I think the following is true:
it's not illegal for an adult to talk on a cell phone while driving.
it is illegal for a junior drivert to talk on a cell while driving.
it is illegal for anyone to text while driving, and the car doesn't have to be moving at the time, for example at a red light, or pulled over on the side of the road
Source: http://www.nolo.com/legal-encycloped...aws-29774.html

Handheld phones. Seven states have enacted laws banning the use of handheld cell phones while driving: California, Connecticut, Maryland, New Jersey, New York, Oregon, and Washington (as well as Washington D.C. and the Virgin Islands).

Novice or juvenile drivers. Twenty-nine states and the District of Columbia have enacted special cell phone driving laws for novice drivers (for example, those with a learner's permit) or young drivers (such as those under the age of 18).

Texting. Twenty-nine states, Washington D.C., and Guam have banned text messaging for all drivers.

Distracted driving. Several additional states -- such as Maine, New Hampshire, and Utah -- don't specifically ban cell phone use, but instead lump it into a larger ban on distracted driving.
welshTerrier2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-12, 01:09 PM   #25
genec
genec
 
genec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2
Posts: 24,784
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 469 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rumrunn6 View Post
I think the following is true:
it's not illegal for an adult to talk on a cell phone while driving.
it is illegal for a junior drivert to talk on a cell while driving.
it is illegal for anyone to text while driving, and the car doesn't have to be moving at the time, for example at a red light, or pulled over on the side of the road
It is illegal in some states for an adult (or anybody) to hold a cell phone while driving... so while it may not be illegal to talk on a cell phone, holding the cell phone IS illegal.

Pulled over at the side of the road while parked in a car, and texting... how in the world is that illegal? Now at a stop light... that may be a different thing.
genec is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:53 AM.