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  1. #1
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    Trucks Parked in Bike Lanes - Newport Beach

    Hope this is the right place to post this. Let me know if it belongs elsewhere, maybe in a dedicated thread:

    http://bikenewportbeach.org/bike-lan...newport-coast/

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    Senior Member Flying Merkel's Avatar
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    Newport Coast is a scary road. Question is, where should the maintenance trucks park? Do we have a case where the design of the road was poorly thought out from the beginning. Maybe there could be parking pockets, like some bus stops.
    Pronounced "Murkle"

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    Why are landscapers and other truck owners entitled to shutdown the bike lane or park in the street like they do even if there is no bike lane? At least, in this case they put the signs, nobody does that here in NJ.

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    Senior Member DieselDan's Avatar
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    Speaking from commercial vehicle experience in South Carolina, you can block a bike lane with the correct "COMMERCIAL" license plate.
    Bikes use brakes to stop.

    If your bike has breaks, don't ride it.

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    Senior Member iforgotmename's Avatar
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    David stated that he was 'terrified" by the cars...maybe he shouldn't be on such roads. Bike lanes offer no protection for the cyclist and it appears as if the workers are doing nothing more than their jobs. He even mentioned riding on the sidewalk, sounds like he needs a little more road experience and maybe should choose a quieter route if he is afraid to occasionally ride in traffic.

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    Senior Member dynodonn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iforgotmename View Post
    David stated that he was 'terrified" by the cars...maybe he shouldn't be on such roads. Bike lanes offer no protection for the cyclist and it appears as if the workers are doing nothing more than their jobs. He even mentioned riding on the sidewalk, sounds like he needs a little more road experience and maybe should choose a quieter route if he is afraid to occasionally ride in traffic.

    Some cyclists are more tolerant of/experienced with high speed, merging into 60 mph traffic is not for the inexperienced cyclist, and this route maybe the only direct route for many cyclists. Catch 22, merge into 60 mph traffic, or risk a ticket for riding on the sidewalk, great options for encouraging people to take up cycling as an alternate means of travel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dynodonn View Post
    Some cyclists are more tolerant of/experienced with high speed, merging into 60 mph traffic is not for the inexperienced cyclist, and this route maybe the only direct route for many cyclists. Catch 22, merge into 60 mph traffic, or risk a ticket for riding on the sidewalk, great options for encouraging people to take up cycling as an alternate means of travel.
    We don't design/implement infrastructure for inexperienced drivers, and we shouldn't do so for inexperienced cyclists either. Learn the skills needed before you venture onto such facilities...

  8. #8
    genec genec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iforgotmename View Post
    David stated that he was 'terrified" by the cars...maybe he shouldn't be on such roads. Bike lanes offer no protection for the cyclist and it appears as if the workers are doing nothing more than their jobs. He even mentioned riding on the sidewalk, sounds like he needs a little more road experience and maybe should choose a quieter route if he is afraid to occasionally ride in traffic.
    In the west quite often there is "no other road." Or the "other road" is a full on interstate freeway.

    The fact is that the traffic load on that road was really fairly light, and a skilled cyclist could most likely time their approach to the blocked portion of the road to avoid passing traffic... but that is not always the case.

    What should happen is that the right lane should also be blocked, further back, limiting motor traffic to the left lane.

    High speed roads are all over Southern California; 45, 50, 55, and up to 65MPH roads are not uncommon at all, and are often lined with those narrow bike lanes.

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    genec genec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by myrridin View Post
    We don't design/implement infrastructure for inexperienced drivers, and we shouldn't do so for inexperienced cyclists either. Learn the skills needed before you venture onto such facilities...
    I'm sorry... if what you said is true, then why do we line the roads with instructional signs to tell inexperienced drivers stuff they should already know...

    Such as:

    image012.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by dynodonn View Post
    ... or risk a ticket for riding on the sidewalk. ...
    I'd be very surprised if anyone has gotten a ticket there for slowly and carefully riding on the sidewalk just for the length of the closed section of the bike path. In some areas I've even see cities put up signs allowing use of the sidewalk when road construction made a section of street unusually hazardous - maybe Newport Beach could provide such signs to the maintenance companies along this street.

    But personally I think I'd still opt for staying on the street based on the views in the video and the signs should be clear that use of the sidewalk is only optional, not mandated.

  11. #11
    genec genec's Avatar
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    Either sidewalk or roadway... cyclists should be given a clear choice, and motorists should also be warned that there is a hazard up ahead and to slow.

    This sort of mess is just like the same situation that occurs when a bike lane suddenly ends on a high speed road... Cyclists suddenly have to deal with high speed motor traffic that has no clue that a change occurred in the traffic pattern. Cyclists are given a sign right at the location of the situation, but motorists have no warning that cyclists are now going to merge into the motorists traffic pattern... and that is the FAILURE.

    Motorists and cyclists need warnings and room to merge and work together... not a sudden "cliff" at which last second decisions have to be made.

    The easiest way to deal with such a situation is to warn all traffic that a blockage is up ahead and then make provisions for the cyclists to use the right hand side of the road.

    Even moving the garden truck into the right lane (well marked of course) and giving cyclists a clear bike lane would be safer.

  12. #12
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iforgotmename View Post
    David stated that he was 'terrified" by the cars...maybe he shouldn't be on such roads. Bike lanes offer no protection for the cyclist and it appears as if the workers are doing nothing more than their jobs. He even mentioned riding on the sidewalk, sounds like he needs a little more road experience and maybe should choose a quieter route if he is afraid to occasionally ride in traffic.
    Also sounds like he is even more terrified of an extremely unlikely ticket for riding on the sidewalk when the bike lane is blocked.
    1. As pointed out where else are the commercial trucks required for the job supposed to park? Does he really need a sign to tell him that a vehicle is parked in the lane ahead.

    2. He seems unaware of the possibility for the cyclists in the video to look at the approaching traffic and adjust their speed before merging safely into the traffic lane to pass the obstruction.

    3. A lot of noise and crybaby whining IMO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by genec View Post
    I'm sorry... if what you said is true, then why do we line the roads with instructional signs to tell inexperienced drivers stuff they should already know...

    Such as:

    image012.jpg
    For the same reason we line the roads with "Share the road" signs... because a politicians constituents requested them...

    Those signs serve as reminders (or more precisely to make certain folks feel good)... We expect folks to know and understand the laws (and procedures) prior to operating their vehicles on public facilities and hold them accountable when they fail to comply...

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    Quote Originally Posted by myrridin View Post
    For the same reason we line the roads with "Share the road" signs... because a politicians constituents requested them...

    Those signs serve as reminders (or more precisely to make certain folks feel good)... We expect folks to know and understand the laws (and procedures) prior to operating their vehicles on public facilities and hold them accountable when they fail to comply...
    Where are you living? Very few motorists stop at stop signs where I am even when there is a cop behind them. Speed limits are ignored, road striping is just decorative paint and illegal passing is quite common. On a ride last week, I decided to count the number of vehicles that I observed violating the law. In the two to six seconds that I saw each vehicle, twenty-six out of twenty-eight were violating the law. I just don't see motorists (or cyclists) being held accountable for failing to comply with the laws they supposedly are aware of.

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    Quote Originally Posted by B. Carfree View Post
    Where are you living? Very few motorists stop at stop signs where I am even when there is a cop behind them. Speed limits are ignored, road striping is just decorative paint and illegal passing is quite common. On a ride last week, I decided to count the number of vehicles that I observed violating the law. In the two to six seconds that I saw each vehicle, twenty-six out of twenty-eight were violating the law. I just don't see motorists (or cyclists) being held accountable for failing to comply with the laws they supposedly are aware of.
    Of all my friends, I am the only one to have not received a ticket in the last 20 years... Those tickets do seem to be a means of holding accountable. Only in some theoretical world would every infraction be ticketed...

  16. #16
    genec genec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by myrridin View Post
    Of all my friends, I am the only one to have not received a ticket in the last 20 years... Those tickets do seem to be a means of holding accountable. Only in some theoretical world would every infraction be ticketed...
    So apparently "all of your friends" don't "know and understand the laws (and procedures) prior to operating their vehicles on public facilities."

    And since you are in the minority, but not having any tickets... perhaps you need to reset your world view about motorists.

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    Quote Originally Posted by genec View Post
    So apparently "all of your friends" don't "know and understand the laws (and procedures) prior to operating their vehicles on public facilities."

    And since you are in the minority, but not having any tickets... perhaps you need to reset your world view about motorists.

    Excellent example of failed logic. Just because they were cited, doesn't mean they didn't know they could violate the law, it just means that they thought they could get away with it (or perhaps that they were above the law)... Never the less, they were required to know the law before being allowed to operate their vehicles...

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    genec genec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by myrridin View Post
    Excellent example of failed logic. Just because they were cited, doesn't mean they didn't know they could violate the law, it just means that they thought they could get away with it (or perhaps that they were above the law)... Never the less, they were required to know the law before being allowed to operate their vehicles...
    But the fact that "everyone you know" has been ticketed shows the disregard for the rules that they are supposed to know and follow. Like most motorists, they flaunt the rules as mere suggestions, thus making the roadways less safe for all other road users.

    Again you need to reset your thinking of motorists since "all of your friends" are showing you prime examples of how the real world operates...

  19. #19
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    Hehe:

    http://www.aviewfromthecyclepath.com...ycle-path.html

    Do check out the links in the article, too.

    Round here, cyclists will typically be led onto the sidewalk which will be striped into cyclist and pedestrian sections. An asphalt ramp will of course be established on and off the sidewalk. In rare cases, car traffic will be reduced to one lane, with lights.

    I think that in most of Europe, drivers do respect a bike lane that is marked with a full line. So that I, for instance, would feel quite safe using said bike lane, even on a high speed road. It's sad to hear that this is not the case in the USA.

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    Quote Originally Posted by genec View Post
    But the fact that "everyone you know" has been ticketed shows the disregard for the rules that they are supposed to know and follow. Like most motorists, they flaunt the rules as mere suggestions, thus making the roadways less safe for all other road users.

    Again you need to reset your thinking of motorists since "all of your friends" are showing you prime examples of how the real world operates...

    And again, you show your preconceptions. It isn't just motorists who routinely flaunt the rules. Just read these forums and you'll find cyclists (nearly all) who do so as well... That is simple human behavior. Failing to follow the rules is why there are consequences for such included in the law... Which is why we don't need to waste any effort on additional signage/rules telling people what they already know...

    By, your reasoning the OP could have ignored the rule about cycling on the sidewalk and simply bypassed the problem... No whining needed...

  21. #21
    genec genec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by myrridin View Post
    And again, you show your preconceptions. It isn't just motorists who routinely flaunt the rules. Just read these forums and you'll find cyclists (nearly all) who do so as well... That is simple human behavior. Failing to follow the rules is why there are consequences for such included in the law... Which is why we don't need to waste any effort on additional signage/rules telling people what they already know...

    By, your reasoning the OP could have ignored the rule about cycling on the sidewalk and simply bypassed the problem... No whining needed...
    Guess you didn't read my other posts... that stated the one lane of the road should be closed...

  22. #22
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    Is it just me, but do these situations and difficulties seem contrived? Are cyclists being cited in Orange County for riding on the sidewalk when the bike lane is blocked? Does anybody really have any problem riding around a parked truck? What am I missing here?

  23. #23
    genec genec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daves_Not_Here View Post
    Is it just me, but do these situations and difficulties seem contrived? Are cyclists being cited in Orange County for riding on the sidewalk when the bike lane is blocked? Does anybody really have any problem riding around a parked truck? What am I missing here?
    I doubt anyone is being cited for riding on the sidewalk... but perhaps the bigger issue is why the cyclist is not warned earlier, where there might be a convenient driveway for the cyclist to use to get to the sidewalk. I think that is perhaps the biggest issue... that there is no planning for bike traffic other than "good luck, your lane just ended."

    I rode a high speed road daily that had similar trucks pulled off doing maint... the issue I had was that the motorists would arrive behind me in a platoon with the first cars seeing me and peeling off just fine, but the later traffic (following cars) would get closer and closer before they finally realized, hey there is a cyclist in the road in front of me. All it would have taken is one braindead cell phone staring driver and I wouldn't be here to discuss this.

    If the warnings of pending blockage were earlier, and included a way to shunt the cyclist (even on to the sidewalk... for just a bit) I think this would be less of a problem. But as it is, these things "appear" some what suddenly to motorist... the cyclist actually has time to evaluate the situation at 8-20 MPH... not so the motorist, especially if hills or curves are part of the situation.

    For me, I would always adjust my speed to try to be around the hazard before a platoon of motor vehicles came along... but uphill, moving at 8MPH, while motor traffic approached at 55+MPH, this wasn't always possible, and the result can be very disconcerting... (watching that last fast car finally peel away in your mirror)

    In the video there is a discussion of an eight year old on a bike lane... and frankly I don't think eight year olds should be on such streets... narrow BL on such fast streets are just really not a good thing, for anyone...

    Note in that video that the sidewalk was wider than the BL. I didn't notice a single ped during the entire video... something to think about.
    Last edited by genec; 10-15-12 at 02:19 PM.

  24. #24
    Senior Member Keith99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daves_Not_Here View Post
    Is it just me, but do these situations and difficulties seem contrived? Are cyclists being cited in Orange County for riding on the sidewalk when the bike lane is blocked? Does anybody really have any problem riding around a parked truck? What am I missing here?
    Cyclists cannot be cited for walking their bikes on the sidewalk. And in this instance the walk would be the whole of 20 feet.

    That is not to say it would always be the case. I can see where when tree trimming is involved the section blocked could be up to a half mile of so.

    Aside from adding a sign that says cyclists may use dsidewalk I don't see much more that would be reasonable in this situation.

    That is one general issue I have with bike lane closures. A reasonable alternative should be specified. And that alternative should be one that works for riders where th bike lane is their limit for being in traffic.
    Perish any man who suspects that these men either did or suffered anything unseemly.

  25. #25
    Senior Member Keith99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daves_Not_Here View Post
    Is it just me, but do these situations and difficulties seem contrived? Are cyclists being cited in Orange County for riding on the sidewalk when the bike lane is blocked? Does anybody really have any problem riding around a parked truck? What am I missing here?
    Not just you.

    BUT I do wander if the situation that caused the original cyclist to complain was a bit different fromthe one in the picture. Like tree trimming which left several hundred yards blocked or even a section without a sidewalk or at least not a ridable sidewalk.
    Perish any man who suspects that these men either did or suffered anything unseemly.

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