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Old 10-28-12, 07:43 AM   #1
asmac
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Salmon beaten in Vancouver road rage incident

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/met...814/story.html
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Old 10-28-12, 07:49 AM   #2
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Ah.

Nothing like a little positive reinforcement to encourage errant cyclists to ride on the right side of the street.
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Old 10-28-12, 02:46 PM   #3
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Sounds more like drug rage than road rage.
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Old 10-28-12, 03:55 PM   #4
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Of course, we only have the victim's story, so there may be more to this than we know right now.

That said, my position on salmon is they don't need to be beaten; They'll get themselves injured soon enough.
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Old 10-28-12, 07:38 PM   #5
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Sounds more like drug rage than road rage.
I agree. Especially since the perp put the salmon rider in a choke hold. The reaction from the start is over the top. But the choke hold sends the reaction into the stratosphere.
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Old 10-28-12, 09:45 PM   #6
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Nothing like a little positive reinforcement to encourage errant cyclists to ride on the right side of the street.
Of course, this wasn't the street -- it was a sidewalk/walkway.

It looks like it was a totally protected walkway, so cars aren't an issue. Of course, cyclists coming at each other have the same problems that a car and a cyclist coming at each other have -- but the speeds are usually much lower and so it's a smaller deal.

And this is a pretty narrow walkway -- it looks just wide enough for one pedestrian to pass another, or a cyclist to pass a pedestrian. I guess the real solution, short of making it wider (probably very difficult) is just to ban cyclists ...

But if the victim's story is what really happened, and this really was about the salmoning -- the guy who did it really had no cause to do it. This would be the most mild sort of salmoning possible.
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Old 10-28-12, 09:49 PM   #7
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it's not the victim's story, the cops were speculating
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Old 10-28-12, 10:25 PM   #8
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Nothing like a little positive reinforcement to encourage errant cyclists to ride on the right side of the street.
Of course, this wasn't the street -- it was a sidewalk/walkway.

It looks like it was a totally protected walkway, so cars aren't an issue. Of course, cyclists coming at each other have the same problems that a car and a cyclist coming at each other have -- but the speeds are usually much lower and so it's a smaller deal.

And this is a pretty narrow walkway -- it looks just wide enough for one pedestrian to pass another, or a cyclist to pass a pedestrian. I guess the real solution, short of making it wider (probably very difficult) is just to ban cyclists ...

But if the victim's story is what really happened, and this really was about the salmoning -- the guy who did it really had no cause to do it. This would be the most mild sort of salmoning possible.
Instead of banning anyone, as it is entirely possible that the bridge is the only reasonable way to get from point a to point b. Would be to launch a PSA campaign reminding cyclists which side of the bridge to ride on. Then have the local LEOs randomly patrol the bridge, first issuing warnings, and then issuing tickets.
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Old 10-28-12, 10:53 PM   #9
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what is salmon ?
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Old 10-28-12, 11:03 PM   #10
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Instead of banning anyone, as it is entirely possible that the bridge is the only reasonable way to get from point a to point b. Would be to launch a PSA campaign reminding cyclists which side of the bridge to ride on. Then have the local LEOs randomly patrol the bridge, first issuing warnings, and then issuing tickets.

Instead of penalizing the victim, LEO's need to apprehend the assailant, and occasionally patrol the bride walkway to help keep it safe for all users, whether they are salmon riders or not.
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Old 10-28-12, 11:29 PM   #11
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The situation is the same as 2 motorist coming head on, on a single lane one way street at low speed. The salmon knew he was wrong and he should have been on the path on the other side of the bridge, that is why he stopped and moved to the side.

The salmon deserves a ticket and the other guy deserves some jail time.
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Old 10-29-12, 12:18 AM   #12
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Instead of banning anyone, as it is entirely possible that the bridge is the only reasonable way to get from point a to point b. Would be to launch a PSA campaign reminding cyclists which side of the bridge to ride on. Then have the local LEOs randomly patrol the bridge, first issuing warnings, and then issuing tickets.

Instead of penalizing the victim, LEO's need to apprehend the assailant, and occasionally patrol the bride walkway to help keep it safe for all users, whether they are salmon riders or not.
If you go back and re-read the article other then the victim having been traveling in the wrong direction, we really don't know what instigated the "beatdown." It is possible that he said or did something to the alleged assailant that actually.started.the ball rolling as it were.

Also from the description, it sounds as if it's just barely wide enough for a bicycle.and a pedestrian, and not really wide enough for two cyclists traveling in opposite directions.

Just saying, we really don't have any facts beyond one cyclist.traveling one direction, and another in the opposite,.meeting amend "beatdown" occurring.
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Old 10-29-12, 01:40 AM   #13
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what is salmon ?
It's a cyclist who is riding "upstream" or against traffic.
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Old 10-29-12, 07:49 AM   #14
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If you go back and re-read the article other then the victim having been traveling in the wrong direction, we really don't know what instigated the "beatdown." It is possible that he said or did something to the alleged assailant that actually.started.the ball rolling as it were.
From what I read is that the only action that the victim stated that he took was in his stopping and letting the other cyclist go by, without saying a word.
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Old 10-29-12, 07:59 AM   #15
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Prion disease from eating farmed salmon from the UK. On a realistic perspective - they need to get this sickie off the road.
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Old 10-29-12, 08:36 AM   #16
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it's not the victim's story, the cops were speculating
Well, it's both.

"The southbound man moved to one side and stopped to allow the other rider to pass, as is convention. But instead of whizzing by, the second cyclist stopped and allegedly punched the first man twice in the head. He then put him in a chokehold, according to police, and punched him six to eight more times before riding away." is the victim's story, and the idea that it was due to the salmoning was from the police.

Maybe I could have been more precise in my language, but "if the victim's story is what really happened" and "this really was about the salmoning" were intended to be separate statements that stand on their own rather than "if the first is correct then the second".

Personally, my guess is that there was more to it. Maybe the victim didn't move to one side and stop and he expected the other guy to stop. (It's always "I was just minding my own business, officer!") Maybe the victim insulted the other guy. Maybe they collided.

After all, if this path has much traffic, the odds are this wasn't the only salmon he encountered.
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Old 10-29-12, 08:54 AM   #17
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Personally, my guess is that there was more to it. Maybe the victim didn't move to one side and stop and he expected the other guy to stop. (It's always "I was just minding my own business, officer!") Maybe the victim insulted the other guy. Maybe they collided.
......and then it could just a case of pent up aggressions, and the victim just ended up be the focal point at the time.
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Old 10-29-12, 09:16 AM   #18
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If you go back and re-read the article other then the victim having been traveling in the wrong direction, we really don't know what instigated the "beatdown." It is possible that he said or did something to the alleged assailant that actually.started.the ball rolling as it were.
From what I read is that the only action that the victim stated that he took was in his stopping and letting the other cyclist go by, without saying a word.
The problem if think about it is that we only have the alleged victims side. Other then the report that the victim forms ride with a motorist, we haven't (if I'm not mistaken) heard from anyone who actually witnessed the beating.

We also haven't heard from the alleged assailant.

Don't you think that it's reasonable that the alleged victim is going to say whatever it'll takes to portray himself as an "innocent victim?" I'm not saying that that is what has happened here, just that it is possible.
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Old 10-29-12, 09:19 AM   #19
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it's not the victim's story, the cops were speculating
Well, it's both.

"The southbound man moved to one side and stopped to allow the other rider to pass, as is convention. But instead of whizzing by, the second cyclist stopped and allegedly punched the first man twice in the head. He then put him in a chokehold, according to police, and punched him six to eight more times before riding away." is the victim's story, and the idea that it was due to the salmoning was from the police.

Maybe I could have been more precise in my language, but "if the victim's story is what really happened" and "this really was about the salmoning" were intended to be separate statements that stand on their own rather than "if the first is correct then the second".

Personally, my guess is that there was more to it. Maybe the victim didn't move to one side and stop and he expected the other guy to stop. (It's always "I was just minding my own business, officer!") Maybe the victim insulted the other guy. Maybe they collided.

After all, if this path has much traffic, the odds are this wasn't the only salmon he encountered.
Doug,

I agree, there are a lot of details missing from this story.
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Old 10-29-12, 09:36 AM   #20
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I ride this bridge several times a week, and did so just yesterday.

The lane is really just a narrow sidewalk, it is not really possible for two cyclists to pass each other. When I encounter someone going the wrong way, I slow to walking speed and the salmon normally stops and hugs the railing as I squeeze by. It was obviously never intended for bicycle travel and is a bit of a sore spot for the local cycling advocacy groups. There is just no other reasonable way to travel by bicycle from Burnaby/Coquitlam or further, if you're going to North Vancouver.

There are paths designed specifically to allow cyclists to access the correct lane of travel from whatever direction they're approaching from. There's really no excuse for salmoning here, and it is dangerous and annoying when people do so. I temper my own anger in these situations with the knowledge that the paths are not super clear, and I can understand someone encountering the the bridge for the first time getting confused...it doesn't help that there are other bridges in the area on which cyclists are directed to travel in a two-way bike lane. So you come up to them and you're thinking "hmm this can't be right...I'd be going the wrong way..." and then of course it makes sense when you get there, but until then...

This could all be avoided with proper signage in my opinion.
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Old 10-29-12, 09:40 AM   #21
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Well, it's both.

"The southbound man moved to one side and stopped to allow the other rider to pass, as is convention. But instead of whizzing by, the second cyclist stopped and allegedly punched the first man twice in the head. He then put him in a chokehold, according to police, and punched him six to eight more times before riding away." is the victim's story, and the idea that it was due to the salmoning was from the police.

Maybe I could have been more precise in my language, but "if the victim's story is what really happened" and "this really was about the salmoning" were intended to be separate statements that stand on their own rather than "if the first is correct then the second".

Personally, my guess is that there was more to it. Maybe the victim didn't move to one side and stop and he expected the other guy to stop. (It's always "I was just minding my own business, officer!") Maybe the victim insulted the other guy. Maybe they collided.

After all, if this path has much traffic, the odds are this wasn't the only salmon he encountered.
I have to say, when I meet salmons on this stretch who don't stop and move over, I start to see a little red myself. It would take only a little provocation in that situation to require a few deep breaths on my part.
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Old 10-29-12, 09:56 AM   #22
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It's a cyclist who is riding "upstream" or against traffic.
Now that's a new one for me... salmoning.

Sounds like that bridge isn't the most hospitable place to ride!

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Old 10-29-12, 10:16 AM   #23
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No, that was not a salmon but rather a human. Dehumanization messes up our thinking and emotions.
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Old 10-29-12, 10:21 AM   #24
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If a story makes no sense at all, as in this case, there is some probability that the victim is hiding something. He may actually know why the person beat him and not want to say. It's possible that the assailant was not a cyclist, for example.

OTOH, there was a story recently about a guy that was beating people up on a mup for some transgression which I don't recall.
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Old 10-29-12, 10:29 AM   #25
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I have to say, when I meet salmons on this stretch who don't stop and move over, I start to see a little red myself. It would take only a little provocation in that situation to require a few deep breaths on my part.
Man, it's narrow. A perfect recipe for angry people to go postal.

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