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Old 10-28-12, 12:01 PM   #1
CommuteCommando
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Joggers in bike lanes

I have noticed that some cyclists take issue with joggers in the bike lane. I agree that when joggers have a good, uncrowned sidewalk, as an alternate to running in the street, they should use it. I have also been alive long enough to know that not everyone will do as they should, and that many will not consider the desires of others. I have also found inner peace in not getting all worked up when people do not behave in consideration of me, and only me.

Yesterday, I had an experience on a club ride that will make it my last ride with that club. The behavior of several of the members toward joggers in the street was so egregious, that it so disturbed my sense of inner peace that I did get a bit worked up over it. It started when one young man, who was ironically wearing a “sharethedamnroad.com” jersey, ran a woman off the street near the start of the ride. I witnessed more aggressive behavior toward joggers by this individual, and others in his grouping, along the coast highway, North of San Diego. This route is very popular with cyclists and joggers.

C’mon people. Life is too short to get upset with joggers in “your” bike lane.
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Old 10-28-12, 12:09 PM   #2
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Jogger in bike lane=golden opportunity for me to "take the lane".
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Old 10-28-12, 12:14 PM   #3
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Well, if it's a pure BIKE lane only then they should NOT be on it, especially if they try and keep the regular US "rules of the road" and try and keep left as a pedestrian should on a regular road when they should instead be keeping to the right. On most if not all trails or lanes ALL users should keep to the right.

If it's actually a MUP then they have every right to be on it. Again, keeping to the right.

I would recommend taking up the issue with your proper city department to try and get a determination of proper use and try and get some enforcement in place if they agree to keep the bike lanes for bikes only.
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Old 10-28-12, 12:15 PM   #4
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Joggers in the bike lane should run facing traffic as if on the road, and make room for cyclists. I understand their reasoning for wanting to run on the asphalt bike lane rather than the concrete sidewalk; it's easier on your joints as asphalt is a "flexible" pavement that yields some to impact unlike concrete.
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Old 10-28-12, 12:33 PM   #5
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Joggers in the bike lane should run facing traffic as if on the road, and make room for cyclists. I understand their reasoning for wanting to run on the asphalt bike lane rather than the concrete sidewalk; it's easier on your joints as asphalt is a "flexible" pavement that yields some to impact unlike concrete.
This, and I don't care if they jog in the bike lane as long as they don't try to take the center with me as oncoming traffic.
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Old 10-28-12, 12:38 PM   #6
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Ya. Ur totally right.
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Old 10-28-12, 12:54 PM   #7
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Much of where I live has bike lane and no sidewalk - the bike lane serves as the sidewalk. Sharing seems to work well, but if the joggers will not give up part of the lane (folks like to run side by side) or are running in the same direction that I am riding, it becomes an issue. I just usually slow down and move out into the lane when it is safe to do so.
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Old 10-28-12, 01:03 PM   #8
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there are what I call "junior deputies" in every crowd. I like to give everyone as much room as I can, I figure next time they are in their car they might remember that.
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Old 10-28-12, 02:22 PM   #9
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Well, if it's a pure BIKE lane only then they should NOT be on it, especially if they try and keep the regular US "rules of the road" and try and keep left as a pedestrian should on a regular road when they should instead be keeping to the right. On most if not all trails or lanes ALL users should keep to the right.
As Kactus does, I find it makes much more sense for the pedestrians to stay on the left side and the bicycles to stay on the right. When I walked my dog on a MUP, I (1) wanted to see the bicycle coming and (2) wanted to make sure that I was always in between the dog and the bicycle (dogs always walk on the left).

For joggers, I assume most the them don't have dogs, but I think it makes i t much safer if both parties are facing each other as far as passing goes. This is particularly true for joggers wearing headphones.

Cheers,
Charles
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Old 10-28-12, 02:31 PM   #10
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. . .

C’mon people. Life is too short to get upset with joggers in “your” bike lane.
Wise advise but don't expect the juvenile jerks to take it.
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Old 10-28-12, 02:54 PM   #11
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The situation is standard bike lane, paralleled by side walk. Since this is an oceanfront road, and the weather was nice, there was a lot of cycle traffic. There was also a lot of slow speed traffic on the sidewalks, which is a big motivation for the joggers to be on the bike lane. Most were out of the way, and gave more courtesy to the cyclists than I saw coming from this particular group of bikers.
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Old 10-28-12, 02:54 PM   #12
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Joggers in the bike lane are great, at least I am less likely to be ticketed for NOT riding in the bike lane.
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Old 10-28-12, 03:00 PM   #13
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I only have a problem when there are 2 or 3 joggers, jogging side by side, taking up the entire bike lane. This s especially so if I am forced to go into traffic because the joggers are too oblivious to be aware of their surroundings.

Other than that, I have no problems with joggers on the bike lane. It is easier to run on the softer asphalt that on hard cement sidewalks. I know...I am a runner and so are several members of my family.
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Old 10-28-12, 03:03 PM   #14
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Joggers in the bike lane are great, at least I am less likely to be ticketed for NOT riding in the bike lane.
How many tickets have you ever received for NOT riding in the bike lane? Do you know anybody that has?
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Old 10-28-12, 03:11 PM   #15
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Did I hear something? Oh, just trolls in the woodwork.
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Old 10-28-12, 03:58 PM   #16
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I find that MOST bike lane joggers are courteous. They know they're on our turf and try to stay out of the way. There are always some oblivious jerks, but there are oblivious jerk cyclists, too. I try to live and let live.
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Old 10-28-12, 04:02 PM   #17
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How many tickets have you ever received for NOT riding in the bike lane? Do you know anybody that has?
I've actually been pulled over by police around the Alawai (in Honolulu) area for that.
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Old 10-28-12, 04:09 PM   #18
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I see quite a few joggers on the bike path and I don't mind them, but if they're in the way, and are listening to their Ipod, they won't hear me. However I have less problems with them than with the stupid roller bladers.
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Old 10-28-12, 04:39 PM   #19
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How many tickets have you ever received for NOT riding in the bike lane? Do you know anybody that has?
Hell, there's even video:
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Old 10-28-12, 04:54 PM   #20
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^ People keep posting that video, as if it proves anything. That guy is a seriously terrible rider. He keeps running into things!
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Old 10-28-12, 05:00 PM   #21
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Joggers in the bike lane should run facing traffic as if on the road, and make room for cyclists. I understand their reasoning for wanting to run on the asphalt bike lane rather than the concrete sidewalk; it's easier on your joints as asphalt is a "flexible" pavement that yields some to impact unlike concrete.
I have heard that but I find it highly implausible. If asphalt yielded significantly under a jogger's shoe, it would be so soft that a cement mixer would leave deep tracks. The extent that it might yield is totally insignificant compared to what is absorbed by the soles of the runner's shoes.

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Old 10-28-12, 05:56 PM   #22
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I have heard that but I find it highly implausible. If asphalt yielded significantly under a jogger's shoe, it would be so soft that a cement mixer would leave deep tracks. The extent that it might yield is totally insignificant compared to what is absorbed by the soles of the runner's shoes.

Don in Austin
You're not a runner (or civil engineer) are you! While it may seem implausible, the deflection caused by the weight of the human foot striking on an asphalt pavement of normal thickness is discernible.
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Old 10-28-12, 06:27 PM   #23
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You're not a runner (or civil engineer) are you! While it may seem implausible, the deflection caused by the weight of the human foot striking on an asphalt pavement of normal thickness is discernible.
you have data for this? I did a quick search and couldn't find the compliance of either material. I am pretty sure that the displacement of concrete and asphalt under the weight of a human runner is pretty much the same, and dwarfed by the displacement due to the compliance of the runner's shoes.

What I would have done as a jogger is get up on the sidewalk to let cyclists pass, same as with cars. If there is no adjoining sidewalk, I have a lot more patience with joggers.
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Old 10-28-12, 06:45 PM   #24
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The nearby city of Superior has started doing something nice: Adding 18" wide strips of crushed rock along some of the sidewalks. That has the nice effect of getting joggers out of the bike lane. I wouldn't mind so much but for the damned fools who run with their back to traffic on 30+mph descents, then throw big sh*t-fits when a bike passes them.

As for asphalt being softer than concrete, yes it is, but the pounds-per-square-inch required to actually deflect the surface is far in excess of the weight any human being can put into a foot step. Someone some time back proposed a theory that since asphalt *usually* has a rougher surface than concrete, as the sole of the shoe conforms to the surface, that might provide the effect of stepping on a softer surface. If so, putting a texture into concrete could replicate it.
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Old 10-28-12, 07:00 PM   #25
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you have data for this? I did a quick search and couldn't find the compliance of either material. I am pretty sure that the displacement of concrete and asphalt under the weight of a human runner is pretty much the same, and dwarfed by the displacement due to the compliance of the runner's shoes.
I'm not sure if studies have been done to measure the deflection caused by a runner or if it is quantifiable with common testing, but all asphalt pavements deflect at a far greater rate than concrete which is classified as a "rigid" pavement and it is discernible by a person. The concrete sidewalk will be be faster than the asphalt bike lane by returning more energy to the runner rather than transferring it into the pavement underlayment but the concrete feels harder. It's the same principle as to why given similar surface smoothness, a concrete roadway will give a car slightly greater fuel economy than an asphalt roadway.
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