The UN-appeal of the supercyclist to populist cyclists -Atlantic Cities article
01-30-13, 10:14 AM
#51
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We are all ignorant on most topics. For several posters in this thread this seems to include NYT coverage of bike commuting.
A NYT search on the exact string "bicycle commuting" provides you with 129 results. Modify the search to require only both words and you see about 1,240 stories.
A NYT search on the exact string "bicycle commuting" provides you with 129 results. Modify the search to require only both words and you see about 1,240 stories.
01-30-13, 10:27 AM
#52
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Your estimation is way off, unterhausen, because there are hundreds of bicycling advocates that specifically dress normally, and suggest cyclists dress normally, in order to influence other people and the public impression of cycling.
That's fine you think considerations of promoting vs. rarifying bicycling merit derision. Did you read the Goodyear article, unterhausen?
Concerns circulate in bicycling advocacy that the media's portrayal of aspects of cycling like dangers, fancy clothing, clipless pedals or even helmets - as elements of cycling - are offputting to the population that simply want to get around where they live by bike.
Describing a bicyclist draped head to toe in a thousand dollar outfit might juice the fanatics about bicycling, but this appears really offputting to the general public. And that's what Sarah Goodyear was writing about.
Some advocates recommend cyclists ride around town in street clothes, specifically to help 'normalize' bicycling. Articles like the NYT article move cycling into the 'rarefied' field.
I think it makes cycling out to be more tech, expensive, and involved than cycling has to be. Kind of inspirational, and somewhat nauseating even to a serious cyclist like myself. The image in the NYT article of a guy in a thousand dollar Capo and Castelli kit topping it off with waxed leather work gloves - so fredly!
The NYT article was a nice puff piece, written almost like a fashion article. Sarah Goodyear gets after it like Adbusters at the Atlantic Cities site.
That's fine you think considerations of promoting vs. rarifying bicycling merit derision. Did you read the Goodyear article, unterhausen?
Concerns circulate in bicycling advocacy that the media's portrayal of aspects of cycling like dangers, fancy clothing, clipless pedals or even helmets - as elements of cycling - are offputting to the population that simply want to get around where they live by bike.
Describing a bicyclist draped head to toe in a thousand dollar outfit might juice the fanatics about bicycling, but this appears really offputting to the general public. And that's what Sarah Goodyear was writing about.
Some advocates recommend cyclists ride around town in street clothes, specifically to help 'normalize' bicycling. Articles like the NYT article move cycling into the 'rarefied' field.
I think it makes cycling out to be more tech, expensive, and involved than cycling has to be. Kind of inspirational, and somewhat nauseating even to a serious cyclist like myself. The image in the NYT article of a guy in a thousand dollar Capo and Castelli kit topping it off with waxed leather work gloves - so fredly!
The NYT article was a nice puff piece, written almost like a fashion article. Sarah Goodyear gets after it like Adbusters at the Atlantic Cities site.
People find cyclists annoying because we're slower traffic...that's it. They may find ways to be annoyed because they're already annoyed, but the reason we can be annoying is because we honestly are in their way. You promoting VC is NOT going to help just because you promote a certain image.
People are not as stupid as you think - wearing lycra isn't why they aren't going to bike...they either don't enjoy it, haven't thought about it or it might not make sense for them. If you want to have others bike more, the way to do that is by promoting tax incentives and ambassador work on the benefits. Your obsession with other people complying with your standards is laughable. You are a horrendous ambassador by the way and your attitude...and Manichean approach...will not endear us to others.
Worry about what works for you...not what works for others.
01-30-13, 11:50 AM
#53
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really?
That's great. Yep.
Actually, there is a whole host of countermeasures and incentives that will serve to promote cycling. Normalizing cycling attire is one countermeasure. I don't see Sarah Goodyear as dissing performance wear, just the Times coverage of it.
Your obsession with other people complying with your standards is laughable.
Who said I want other people to comply to my cycling standards. I'm a very populist bicyclist and support all manner of cycling and cycling attire.
Meh. Bitter coffee this morning or something?
I will dress how I chose...I don't give a rat's behind what someone else thinks and there are legitimate uses for cycling specific clothing.
................ If you want to have others bike more, the way to do that is by promoting tax incentives and ambassador work on the benefits.
Your obsession with other people complying with your standards is laughable.
You are a horrendous ambassador by the way and your attitude...and Manichean approach...will not endear us to others.
Worry about what works for you...not what works for others.
Worry about what works for you...not what works for others.
01-30-13, 12:50 PM
#54
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I get it, Bekologist.
I do also get a chuckle out of the most extreme or gratuitous expressions of Fredliness.
It's funny when people take themselves or their fantasies too seriously, and no less funny when it's ME doing it.
I have a sinking feeling that despite my protestations to the contrary, or perhaps because of them, I will one day find myself Fredded up to the nines.
I do also get a chuckle out of the most extreme or gratuitous expressions of Fredliness.
It's funny when people take themselves or their fantasies too seriously, and no less funny when it's ME doing it.
I have a sinking feeling that despite my protestations to the contrary, or perhaps because of them, I will one day find myself Fredded up to the nines.
01-30-13, 06:02 PM
#55
totally louche
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I get it, Bekologist.
I do also get a chuckle out of the most extreme or gratuitous expressions of Fredliness.
It's funny when people take themselves or their fantasies too seriously, and no less funny when it's ME doing it.
I have a sinking feeling that despite my protestations to the contrary, or perhaps because of them, I will one day find myself Fredded up to the nines.
I do also get a chuckle out of the most extreme or gratuitous expressions of Fredliness.
It's funny when people take themselves or their fantasies too seriously, and no less funny when it's ME doing it.
I have a sinking feeling that despite my protestations to the contrary, or perhaps because of them, I will one day find myself Fredded up to the nines.
01-30-13, 06:50 PM
#57
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Ye gods. Isn't it awfully...uncomfortable for some of you guys, to ride a bike like that?
With your undies bunched so far up, I mean.
It's a freaking news story in the NY Times. In other words, it's 'man bites dog,' with a crunchy candy coating of high-priced consumerism. Does anyone here really think that this article is of any influence at all, to anyone, anywhere, aside from some Fredly commuter on LI who might see that there's a piece of Rapha that he doesn't already own?
'Pick your battles' is a good maxim for anyone with a cause to promote, and for self-styled cycling advocates to pick this one seems even sillier than usual.
With your undies bunched so far up, I mean.
It's a freaking news story in the NY Times. In other words, it's 'man bites dog,' with a crunchy candy coating of high-priced consumerism. Does anyone here really think that this article is of any influence at all, to anyone, anywhere, aside from some Fredly commuter on LI who might see that there's a piece of Rapha that he doesn't already own?
'Pick your battles' is a good maxim for anyone with a cause to promote, and for self-styled cycling advocates to pick this one seems even sillier than usual.
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01-30-13, 07:19 PM
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Ye gods. Isn't it awfully...uncomfortable for some of you guys, to ride a bike like that?
With your undies bunched so far up, I mean.
It's a freaking news story in the NY Times. In other words, it's 'man bites dog,' with a crunchy candy coating of high-priced consumerism. Does anyone here really think that this article is of any influence at all, to anyone, anywhere, aside from some Fredly commuter on LI who might see that there's a piece of Rapha that he doesn't already own?
'Pick your battles' is a good maxim for anyone with a cause to promote, and for self-styled cycling advocates to pick this one seems even sillier than usual.
With your undies bunched so far up, I mean.
It's a freaking news story in the NY Times. In other words, it's 'man bites dog,' with a crunchy candy coating of high-priced consumerism. Does anyone here really think that this article is of any influence at all, to anyone, anywhere, aside from some Fredly commuter on LI who might see that there's a piece of Rapha that he doesn't already own?
'Pick your battles' is a good maxim for anyone with a cause to promote, and for self-styled cycling advocates to pick this one seems even sillier than usual.
Now I'm making fun of you making fun of us making fun of the NYT.
Now if only the NYT would make fun of me doing that, then the Circle would be complete, and my Reign of Uselessness would last a thousand years!!
01-30-13, 08:42 PM
#59
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I'm just curious if anyone reading this ever saw a lycra-clad roadie and said to themselves that they would have to emulate that person in order to ride to work? My view on commuting evangelism is that if someone asks for encouragement, I will give it to them. If they ask me if they have to wear lycra to ride to work, I will laugh and say no. If the intimate that I shouldn't, I will ask when they are getting the surgery to remove the stick from .... oh never mind.
I also don't care if people pass me, unless they collapse right in front of me in which case I might be forced to make a hurtful observation about their ego deficit.
I also don't care if people pass me, unless they collapse right in front of me in which case I might be forced to make a hurtful observation about their ego deficit.
01-30-13, 09:30 PM
#60
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It gets worse. 
Tomorrow's Times will reveal that at least one of those hyper-competitive Master-of-the-Universe executive-level Fredly cyclists who commutes into lower Manhattan has found that his Rapha and $10K CF bike is not 'edge' enough, and he has resorted to doping.
Proof
Tomorrow's Times will reveal that at least one of those hyper-competitive Master-of-the-Universe executive-level Fredly cyclists who commutes into lower Manhattan has found that his Rapha and $10K CF bike is not 'edge' enough, and he has resorted to doping.
Proof
__________________
I never think I have hit hard, unless it rebounds.
- Dr Samuel Johnson
I never think I have hit hard, unless it rebounds.
- Dr Samuel Johnson
Last edited by Chicago Al; 01-30-13 at 09:54 PM.
01-30-13, 10:26 PM
#61
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It gets worse.
Tomorrow's Times will reveal that at least one of those hyper-competitive Master-of-the-Universe executive-level Fredly cyclists who commutes into lower Manhattan has found that his Rapha and $10K CF bike is not 'edge' enough, and he has resorted to doping.
Proof
Tomorrow's Times will reveal that at least one of those hyper-competitive Master-of-the-Universe executive-level Fredly cyclists who commutes into lower Manhattan has found that his Rapha and $10K CF bike is not 'edge' enough, and he has resorted to doping.
Proof
Al - you're my hero.
01-30-13, 10:48 PM
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Between the sticks in need of removal and the monkey, this thread has about run its course (very course, indeed).
01-31-13, 12:06 AM
#63
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It gets worse.
Tomorrow's Times will reveal that at least one of those hyper-competitive Master-of-the-Universe executive-level Fredly cyclists who commutes into lower Manhattan has found that his Rapha and $10K CF bike is not 'edge' enough, and he has resorted to doping.
Proof
Tomorrow's Times will reveal that at least one of those hyper-competitive Master-of-the-Universe executive-level Fredly cyclists who commutes into lower Manhattan has found that his Rapha and $10K CF bike is not 'edge' enough, and he has resorted to doping.
Proof
01-31-13, 12:16 AM
#64
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Ye gods. Isn't it awfully...uncomfortable for some of you guys, to ride a bike like that?
With your undies bunched so far up, I mean.
It's a freaking news story in the NY Times. In other words, it's 'man bites dog,' with a crunchy candy coating of high-priced consumerism. Does anyone here really think that this article is of any influence at all, to anyone, anywhere, aside from some Fredly commuter on LI who might see that there's a piece of Rapha that he doesn't already own?
'Pick your battles' is a good maxim for anyone with a cause to promote, and for self-styled cycling advocates to pick this one seems even sillier than usual.
With your undies bunched so far up, I mean.
It's a freaking news story in the NY Times. In other words, it's 'man bites dog,' with a crunchy candy coating of high-priced consumerism. Does anyone here really think that this article is of any influence at all, to anyone, anywhere, aside from some Fredly commuter on LI who might see that there's a piece of Rapha that he doesn't already own?
'Pick your battles' is a good maxim for anyone with a cause to promote, and for self-styled cycling advocates to pick this one seems even sillier than usual.
01-31-13, 12:17 AM
#65
totally louche
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01-31-13, 07:14 PM
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there are hundreds of bicycling advocates that specifically dress normally, and suggest cyclists dress normally, in order to influence other people and the public impression of cycling.
i have personally observed new cyclists become discouraged by the pain and discomfort of riding in "normal" clothing. moreover, the demonization of sporty wear by the retro-philes is pure cognitive dissonance in the usa. sporty active wear is a major part of usanian fashion. for example, there is not a heck of alot of difference between lulemon yoga pants and pearl izumi bike tights.
01-31-13, 07:46 PM
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i think you are describing the "bike culture" clique. most of the bike advocates i know wear a mix of technical and fredly clothing.
i have personally observed new cyclists become discouraged by the pain and discomfort of riding in "normal" clothing. moreover, the demonization of sporty wear by the retro-philes is pure cognitive dissonance in the usa. sporty active wear is a major part of usanian fashion. for example, there is not a heck of alot of difference between lulemon yoga pants and pearl izumi bike tights.
i have personally observed new cyclists become discouraged by the pain and discomfort of riding in "normal" clothing. moreover, the demonization of sporty wear by the retro-philes is pure cognitive dissonance in the usa. sporty active wear is a major part of usanian fashion. for example, there is not a heck of alot of difference between lulemon yoga pants and pearl izumi bike tights.
02-01-13, 12:08 PM
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The article--and the whole idea is IMHO a complete crock. You dress and equip yourself for your own cycling environment. An ice-hockey helmet, Dutch town bike, and earth-toned street clothes would be a combo of masochism and suicide attempt for a 20K urban to suburban commute in the hilly, grey Northwest. There is a functional purpose to cycling-specific clothing, drop-bar bikes, racer-ish looking helmets, cleated shoes. Try a Beaverton to SE POrtland commute equipped otherwise and you'll realize how absolutely ******** these "delusions of Copenhagen" really are!
02-01-13, 03:23 PM
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>Try a Beaverton to SE POrtland commute equipped otherwise and you'll realize how absolutely ******** these "delusions of Copenhagen" really are!
Its amusing that Mikael Colville-Andersen does not publish photos of the tens of thousands of cyclists who stream over portland's inner city bridges when he visits. Perhaps its because many of them wear nylon, lycra, bike shoes, and {quelle horreur!** helmets. As someone who has been cycling for decades I have noticed that (in cities like Portland and Seattle) the percentage of commuters who wear bike-specific clothing has actually gone up as mode share has gone up.
Its amusing that Mikael Colville-Andersen does not publish photos of the tens of thousands of cyclists who stream over portland's inner city bridges when he visits. Perhaps its because many of them wear nylon, lycra, bike shoes, and {quelle horreur!** helmets. As someone who has been cycling for decades I have noticed that (in cities like Portland and Seattle) the percentage of commuters who wear bike-specific clothing has actually gone up as mode share has gone up.
02-01-13, 04:36 PM
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That seems fair. And I don't begrudge anyone his right to wear what he finds comfy or even to play make-believe, an activity of which I'm quite fond myself. I don't even begrudge a person his right to engage obsessively in some sport until his reproductive organs go numb and fall off.
You know what I think when I see a Lycra Boy or Girl on the bike route? I think, look, another cyclist. Hello, cyclist! I wonder if I can keep up. Seriously, that's what I think.
But I draw the line at being expected to take certain forms of posturing seriously. Everyone who rides a bike knows exactly what I'm talking about. And I really must object when cycling is portrayed in the NYT as the province of elite hobbyists preening over exclusive brand names. What a load of marketing garbage.
You know what I think when I see a Lycra Boy or Girl on the bike route? I think, look, another cyclist. Hello, cyclist! I wonder if I can keep up. Seriously, that's what I think.
But I draw the line at being expected to take certain forms of posturing seriously. Everyone who rides a bike knows exactly what I'm talking about. And I really must object when cycling is portrayed in the NYT as the province of elite hobbyists preening over exclusive brand names. What a load of marketing garbage.
02-01-13, 04:38 PM
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I'm just curious if anyone reading this ever saw a lycra-clad roadie and said to themselves that they would have to emulate that person in order to ride to work? My view on commuting evangelism is that if someone asks for encouragement, I will give it to them. If they ask me if they have to wear lycra to ride to work, I will laugh and say no. If the intimate that I shouldn't, I will ask when they are getting the surgery to remove the stick from .... oh never mind.
I also don't care if people pass me, unless they collapse right in front of me in which case I might be forced to make a hurtful observation about their ego deficit.
I also don't care if people pass me, unless they collapse right in front of me in which case I might be forced to make a hurtful observation about their ego deficit.
02-01-13, 05:17 PM
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02-01-13, 06:15 PM
#73
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There's a difference between a 5 mile commute intracity and the 40 mile commutes the article was talking about. If you do that every day, you do benefit from cycling clothes and have to have a completely different level of dedication to bike commuting than the typical bike commuter.
Heck I did more mileage than the fashion plate every week I did my 24 mile R/T commute daily for 7 years and never once wore "cycling clothes."
02-01-13, 08:39 PM
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I have to admit all the negativity towards the cyclist in the story just makes me shake my head.
the guy in the article is pretty interesting -- he's reading the instructions in this video:
the guy in the article is pretty interesting -- he's reading the instructions in this video:
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