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Old 02-18-13, 10:30 PM   #26
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As this thread has less to do with hardware and more to do with the pros/cons of using lights (with the odd mirror comment), I'm moving this to A&S.
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Old 02-18-13, 10:57 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by tpolley View Post
does anyone catch hell from other bicyclists, pedestrians and motorists about the brightness of your lights?

i have a minewt 350. 350 lumens. it's not the brightest light out there, but it's pretty effing bright. i have it on strobe any time i'm on my bike, day or night, well, night i have it on solid, whether i'm on the road or on a multi use trail. i've found that 90% if i'm coming up behind a pedestrian they'll see my strobe out of the corner of their eyes, or they'll see reflective signs flashing in front of them and turn around to see me coming.

i've also received complaints from oncoming traffic, cars, pedestrians that my light is too bright. i don't have it aimed way up, i have it aimed about 10-12 feet in front of me. i guess i'd rather piss some people off than run someone over, or be run over.
I do get complaints', but not from cyclists'. I get complaints' from motorists', about them being too bright.

I have the Minewt 600. It is extremely bright. Because of that, they only time I have it on strobe, is when it starts to get dark.

I could care less, how ticked motorists' get about my head light. I just want to be seen. By ticking them off, I know I have been seen.
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Old 02-18-13, 10:59 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by no1mad View Post
As this thread has less to do with hardware and more to do with the pros/cons of using lights (with the odd mirror comment), I'm moving this to A&S.
LOL

Don't you mean moving it to EL&G?
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Old 02-18-13, 11:09 PM   #29
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As this thread has less to do with hardware and more to do with the pros/cons of using lights (with the odd mirror comment), I'm moving this to A&S.
Why not send it to Foo or P&R since it is mostly crystal ball speculation and conjecture about a fatal accident by a couple of true believers in the more and more powerful lighting to prevent accidents, including this fatal accident of which they don't have a clue about the presence or absence of the lighting used by the cyclists.
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Old 02-18-13, 11:12 PM   #30
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You are making ridiculous assumptions with no evidence or justification for the silly thread. You have no idea what lights they had. You don't know the time of day, or the road condition, or the driver's sobriety. You have no idea whether he saw them and just thought he'd pass safely. The simple truth is that you want to believe that people are safe if they do what you deem safe behavior. It's not true - you can do everything right and get killed because someone had a bad day.

This thread should be moved to trollheim - it's absurd and insulting.
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Old 02-19-13, 09:10 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by cehowardGS View Post
IMO, I think strong and bright lights would have prevented this..

It was obvious they weren't seen.

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2...5721#c74275721
'Cause the driver wasn't looking.

That's the problem with all the laws, the lights, the bright clothing, reflectors, strobes, blinkies, you name it... if the driver is not looking at where they are going, NOTHING you do as a cyclist will prevent you from being hit.

People continue to come on here and tell us "take the lane, you will be seen..." use mirrors, lights blinkies, flashing clothing, high intensity flares and signal fires... but it all comes down to one thing... the driver of the larger vehicle, coming your way, has to actually be looking... piloting the darn thing... before you as a cyclist will be avoided. Otherwise you best have the reflexes of Superman, and the ability to fly.

NOTHING will stop a car from hitting a cyclist if the driver of the motor vehicle is not looking where they are going. (and sometimes even with the driver looking you have no guarantees...)

In this case the driver was reaching on the floorboard for a hat... NOT watching the road. Not looking at where he was going. Didn't matter how lit up the cyclists were... the driver decided "this will only take a second..." and it took longer and the result is this thread.

This is the one single reason that motorists and cyclists really can't effectively "share the road." Motorists fail to uphold their responsibilities, and don't watch where they are going. The end result is always the same.

This is what always bothered me about my bike commuting... I can do everything exactly right... and all it takes is one motorist... "I didn't see him" and I am creamed.
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Old 02-19-13, 09:13 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
Why not send it to Foo or P&R since it is mostly crystal ball speculation and conjecture about a fatal accident by a couple of true believers in the more and more powerful lighting to prevent accidents, including this fatal accident of which they don't have a clue about the presence or absence of the lighting used by the cyclists.
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Originally Posted by KonAaron Snake View Post
You are making ridiculous assumptions with no evidence or justification for the silly thread. You have no idea what lights they had. You don't know the time of day, or the road condition, or the driver's sobriety. You have no idea whether he saw them and just thought he'd pass safely. The simple truth is that you want to believe that people are safe if they do what you deem safe behavior. It's not true - you can do everything right and get killed because someone had a bad day.

This thread should be moved to trollheim - it's absurd and insulting.
The driver admitted looking on the floorboard for a cap... it is in the story in the OP if you bothered reading.

No speculation needed... here is the quote.:
Quote:
Supachai said the truck driver, 25-year-old Worapong Sangkhawat, was seriously injured in the crash. He told police his truck hit the cyclists as he was reaching down to pick up a cap from the vehicle's floor, Supachai said.
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Old 02-19-13, 09:53 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by genec View Post
The driver admitted looking on the floorboard for a cap... it is in the story in the OP if you bothered reading.

No speculation needed... here is the quote.:

Quote:
Supachai said the truck driver, 25-year-old Worapong Sangkhawat, was seriously injured in the crash. He told police his truck hit the cyclists as he was reaching down to pick up a cap from the vehicle's floor, Supachai said.
Speculating about what might have been in this case probably isn't so useful, so I won't do that. The goal ought to be figuring out what we can do to help prevent accidents like this from happening.

One can imagine similar situations where if the bicyclist has really bright lights and is seen much earlier, a collision might be avoided.

One can also imagine similar situations where the bicyclists would have been spotted much earlier, and the driver would have still hit them when reaching for whatever.

There's nothing we can do to remove all risk. There are things we can do to often reduce it.

Cheers,
Charles
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Old 02-19-13, 09:56 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by genec View Post
The driver admitted looking on the floorboard for a cap... it is in the story in the OP if you bothered reading.

No speculation needed... here is the quote.:
Let me help you with your reading comprehension. I read the story and I read about how his admission was reported. I was commenting on a prior view that had the cyclists had better lighting, he wouldn't have bent down because he would have seen them. The point is that anything we write is speculation...we know the driver said he was bent down, we know he hit them...and that's all we know. Any further speculation, like the benefits of lighting, are contemplating of navels.
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Old 02-19-13, 10:11 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by KonAaron Snake View Post
Let me help you with your reading comprehension. I read the story and I read about how his admission was reported. I was commenting on a prior view that had the cyclists had better lighting, he wouldn't have bent down because he would have seen them. The point is that anything we write is speculation...we know the driver said he was bent down, we know he hit them...and that's all we know. Any further speculation, like the benefits of lighting, are contemplating of navels.
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Old 02-19-13, 10:34 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by no1mad View Post
As this thread has less to do with hardware and more to do with the pros/cons of using lights (with the odd mirror comment), I'm moving this to A&S.
How cruel. We do just fine building useless threads on our own.
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Old 02-19-13, 10:54 AM   #37
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They seemed to Not Use Lights in the Day Time.

They had Mirrors.

http://vimeo.com/59883919
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Old 02-19-13, 11:10 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by cplager View Post
Speculating about what might have been in this case probably isn't so useful, so I won't do that. The goal ought to be figuring out what we can do to help prevent accidents like this from happening.

One can imagine similar situations where if the bicyclist has really bright lights and is seen much earlier, a collision might be avoided.

One can also imagine similar situations where the bicyclists would have been spotted much earlier, and the driver would have still hit them when reaching for whatever.

There's nothing we can do to remove all risk. There are things we can do to often reduce it.

Cheers,
Charles
As long as drivers make decisions to take their eyes away from where they are pointing their fast heavy masses called motor vehicles, there is NOTHING you as a cyclist can do to MAKE a driver pay attention. NOTHING short of being in the vehicle with them directing their eyes and actions.

Drivers may see you well enough and still rationalize that they need to pick up that lit cigarette, the fallen CD, the last french fry, even a hat, or swat a bee, ... and as long as drivers are fallible, and fail to understand how many feet they travel in time X, and how they may steer the vehicle in some wayward manner while performing their distracting task... there is NOTHING that a cyclist can do to MAKE a motorist look. That is reality.
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Old 02-19-13, 11:18 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by KonAaron Snake View Post
Let me help you with your reading comprehension. I read the story and I read about how his admission was reported. I was commenting on a prior view that had the cyclists had better lighting, he wouldn't have bent down because he would have seen them. The point is that anything we write is speculation...we know the driver said he was bent down, we know he hit them...and that's all we know. Any further speculation, like the benefits of lighting, are contemplating of navels.
Sorry... you are indeed right here... I scanned your response quickly and responded to the first part without comprehending that you actually agree with me...

Your statement:
Quote:
The simple truth is that you want to believe that people are safe if they do what you deem safe behavior. It's not true - you can do everything right and get killed because someone had a bad day.
Is right on.

We cyclists can do everything possible and still be at the "mercy" of some idiot's last second decision to "reach for a hat."

I blame lack of coffee for including you in the response. I probably should apologize to ILTB also... I see both of you are saying that lighting is not the solution...

Neither lighting, nor taking the lane, nor visible clothing, nor magic incantations, etc can prevent collisions when the driver fails to look.
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Old 02-19-13, 11:35 AM   #40
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...

Neither lighting, nor taking the lane, nor visible clothing, nor magic incantations, etc can prevent collisions when the driver fails to look.
hey...i'm not sure about that last one, that may warrant investigation.
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Old 02-19-13, 11:49 AM   #41
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hey...i'm not sure about that last one [magic incantations], that may warrant investigation.
Isn't that what the OP and the other crystal ball speculative posts about the power of ever brighter lighting to prevent this accident and who knows how many others are: magic incantations?
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Old 02-19-13, 11:56 AM   #42
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Isn't that what the OP and the other crystal ball speculative posts about the power of ever brighter lighting to prevent this accident and who knows how many others are: magic incantations?
I'm thinking cut outs of magic circles attached to the lenses of our lights like bat symbols.

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Old 02-19-13, 11:56 AM   #43
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I think I just made this whole page safe.
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Old 02-19-13, 11:57 AM   #44
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or...maybe cursed.
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Old 02-19-13, 11:58 AM   #45
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Old 02-19-13, 12:02 PM   #46
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It must be wonderful to be able to diagnose the causes of collisions from half a world away. Having only ridden thro' places like Iran, Turkmenistan, Kygyzstan, Tajikistan, Afghanistan and every 'stan in between, before riding down thro' China, they cannot possibly have had any idea of how to ride safely in that kind of traffic and on those kinds of roads.

To give yourself some idea of how little experience and skills they had, watch:
http://bikeportland.org/2013/02/18/f...998#more-82998

Oh, by the way, they did have mirrors.

and speaking as one who was knocked off his bike whilst wearing orange waterproof trousers, yellow cape (old-fashioned type), 3 feet of 1.5" reflective strip on my paniers, reflective sidewalls on my tyres, front and rear lights, relective anklebands, pedal relectors, reflectors on the wheels, I find the OP's faith in the efficacy of lights really touching.
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Old 02-19-13, 12:09 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by genec View Post
As long as drivers make decisions to take their eyes away from where they are pointing their fast heavy masses called motor vehicles, there is NOTHING you as a cyclist can do to MAKE a driver pay attention. NOTHING short of being in the vehicle with them directing their eyes and actions.

Drivers may see you well enough and still rationalize that they need to pick up that lit cigarette, the fallen CD, the last french fry, even a hat, or swat a bee, ... and as long as drivers are fallible, and fail to understand how many feet they travel in time X, and how they may steer the vehicle in some wayward manner while performing their distracting task... there is NOTHING that a cyclist can do to MAKE a motorist look. That is reality.
Most motorist do actually want to see bicyclists and not run them over. Having lights helps that. Being seen and recognized early will also help most motorists realize they should wait until they've passed you to take their eyes off the road and do whatever it is that can't wait.

I do agree that there is nothing that can be done for a (luckily) small fraction of motorists who drive as if nobody else is on the road. (or, at least, nobody who is in a smaller vehicle). Personally, I think that deciding not to use lights because it doesn't help with 100% of the drivers out there is silly.
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Old 02-19-13, 12:23 PM   #48
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ugh .. cagers
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Old 02-19-13, 12:35 PM   #49
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I added the bold and underline to the quote below:

Quote:
Originally Posted by cplager View Post
Most motorist do actually want to see bicyclists and not run them over. Having lights helps that. Being seen and recognized early will also help most motorists realize they should wait until they've passed you to take their eyes off the road and do whatever it is that can't wait.

I do agree that there is nothing that can be done for a (luckily) small fraction of motorists who drive as if nobody else is on the road. (or, at least, nobody who is in a smaller vehicle). Personally, I think that deciding not to use lights because it doesn't help with 100% of the drivers out there is silly.

Where people driving motor vehicles and people riding bikes travel the road together, people on the bikes will always be the vulnerable road users. That's a prevailing fact, but one that people shouldn't let persuade themselves not to use gear that will help people driving see them better.
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Old 02-19-13, 12:50 PM   #50
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Isn't that what the OP and the other crystal ball speculative posts about the power of ever brighter lighting to prevent this accident and who knows how many others are: magic incantations?
Are we having fun or what!

With that said, since I am the OP, I should have broad shoulders, and I do. The more one drives, the more experienced one become to driving habits of others and what others most likely will do. I stake my life on mine what I think others will do..

Here is an example, predicting and knowing almost what will happen. Driving my street motorcycle sometimes I succumbed to road rage(no, I don't do this anymore) after somebody almost runs over me. I would get in front of the vehicle and jam my brakes. From experience, I know that at the moment, the right foot of the car in back, I own that foot. When I jam brakes, 100 to 0, they jam right with me and almost go through the window. It is a reflex action. Most of the time I don't come with a second time, because they know what is happening and I don't own that foot anymore.

Getting back to the lights, a blinking light coming just out of your side vision, I don't care what you are doing, you are going to see it. If those two had strong blinking lights on their bikes, good chances are the driver would have saw them and they wouldn't have got hit.

We are just having a discussion, and my aim was not to rile anybody, but to enlighten, and therefore make more safe riders. However, just like helmets, I wouldn't be caught on two wheels without a helmet, but others think otherwise..

Cheers to all..
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