Politician thinks cyclists cause more pollution because they "breathe more".
03-05-13, 12:09 PM
#51
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Bikes beat trains for transporting humans. (Here's a citation though it doesn't give much detail.) Especially if the cyclist is going 12 mph rather than trying to go 24 mph.
A train might win for transporting cargo, however.
As for the politician, what he initially said was technically accurate -- a cyclist does emit more CO2 during a ride than they do just sitting there, so if we consider CO2 to be a pollutant, by virtue of going on a bike ride, you *are* creating more pollution than you would if you took a nap instead. It's a stupid point to make, as humans emit far less CO2 than a car, but it's technically correct.
But then he got it wrong when he said that a cyclist emits more CO2 than a driver in a car. Unless he was talking about only the CO2 emitted by the humans involved and ignoring that from the car? That would be a stupid way of looking at it.
But then he got it right in his apology.
A train might win for transporting cargo, however.
As for the politician, what he initially said was technically accurate -- a cyclist does emit more CO2 during a ride than they do just sitting there, so if we consider CO2 to be a pollutant, by virtue of going on a bike ride, you *are* creating more pollution than you would if you took a nap instead. It's a stupid point to make, as humans emit far less CO2 than a car, but it's technically correct.
But then he got it wrong when he said that a cyclist emits more CO2 than a driver in a car. Unless he was talking about only the CO2 emitted by the humans involved and ignoring that from the car? That would be a stupid way of looking at it.
But then he got it right in his apology.
Humans don't emit any SOx, NOx, VOC's, etc. Our bodies alone don't sweat or bleed hydrocarbons like motor oil and gasoline, cooling fluid glycol, brake, steering and transmission hydraulic fluids all over the place and contaminate storm sewers and soil.
03-05-13, 01:14 PM
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03-05-13, 01:49 PM
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03-05-13, 02:25 PM
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From his reply:
The idea of bicyclists paying for some of the infrastructure they are using is one which merits consideration
03-05-13, 02:27 PM
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I would be willing to consider paying something for infrastructure if they had the guts to raise the gas tax to the point of paying for roads. And also had a road tax on the trucks that actually cause all the damage to the roads. And priced parking high enough that it pays for parking spaces
Other than that, I'm easily satisfied
Other than that, I'm easily satisfied
03-05-13, 03:11 PM
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This official would have a stronger case for CO2 emissions if he pointed out cyclists probably take more showers and launder more clothing (hot water / electricity usage.) Problem is, making people feel guilty about exercising (because it's "bad" for the environment) is probably a bad thing from a public policy standpoint.
I also completely agree about the federal and state governments subsidizing hyrbrids and electric cars. Those drivers aren't being asked to pay for the infrastructure and enjoy significant perks in many cases (tax breaks, free charging stations, dedicated parking etc.) Until that changes I don't think you can expect cyclists (who use no fossil fuels) to pay a dedicated tax for cycling infrastructure.
I also completely agree about the federal and state governments subsidizing hyrbrids and electric cars. Those drivers aren't being asked to pay for the infrastructure and enjoy significant perks in many cases (tax breaks, free charging stations, dedicated parking etc.) Until that changes I don't think you can expect cyclists (who use no fossil fuels) to pay a dedicated tax for cycling infrastructure.
Last edited by Dunbar; 03-05-13 at 03:17 PM.
03-05-13, 04:45 PM
#57
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I would be willing to consider paying something for infrastructure if they had the guts to raise the gas tax to the point of paying for roads. And also had a road tax on the trucks that actually cause all the damage to the roads. And priced parking high enough that it pays for parking spaces
Other than that, I'm easily satisfied
Other than that, I'm easily satisfied
$15 to $50 for bicycles
$2,000 to $7,000 cars and pickups
$???,???,??? how much do tractor trailers weigh
and to equalize gas taxes, cyclist could pay a $0.50 tax for each tire they buy.
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03-05-13, 05:09 PM
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If it is equality they want, then start by cutting property taxes for cyclist by a fair amount. Then add the a new purchase tax law for everyone. Since these guys like $25 for bicycles, that is close to $1.00 per pound. So modify the vehicle purchase tax to $1.00 per pound:
$15 to $50 for bicycles
$2,000 to $7,000 cars and pickups
$???,???,??? how much do tractor trailers weigh
and to equalize gas taxes, cyclist could pay a $0.50 tax for each tire they buy.
$15 to $50 for bicycles
$2,000 to $7,000 cars and pickups
$???,???,??? how much do tractor trailers weigh
and to equalize gas taxes, cyclist could pay a $0.50 tax for each tire they buy.
03-05-13, 05:30 PM
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please don't talk about political parties in A&S. If you want to talk about who or who isn't the stupid party, that discussion can go to P&R
03-05-13, 06:04 PM
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LOL, our politicians say dumb stuff, lie, etc, all the time. I'm simply giddy over the real issue which is Washington State has a bill under consideration to tax cyclists. It will simply be cake if it actually passes. Those who are opposed to spending beyond their means saw this coming for a long time. I'm of the belief we have gone beyond the tipping point and it will take economic collapse in order to start over and bring America back on track. Now if we could only see bills for Licensing and registration next!
03-05-13, 06:24 PM
#61
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Is your next proposal that the individual income tax based on income be discarded to be replaced by an individual tax based on the individual's weight? Would sound good to cyclists who are skinny straws; and make as much sense as thinking that the proposed $25 bicycle tax had anything to do with its weight.
Or do you believe 18 wheelers and cyclist cause the same amount of road damage?
Are you not aware that many, maybe most states base their vehicle registration fees on vehicle weight. If the bicycle fee is based on those current rates, the bicycle fee would be about $1.00 to $3.00 depending on the state rate.
For my state, I would owe about $2.00 and still would not be allowed on the freeways.
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03-05-13, 08:59 PM
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That is ridiculous. My communication to a government official is private because I am a private citizen. A letter from a government official to me is not private if I choose to share it because he/she is a government official. You make it sound like I'm violating a tax official's privacy by showing my wife a letter he/she sent me.
03-05-13, 09:09 PM
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Hungary bases it on vehicle weight and engine displacement. I always thought that was a pretty fair idea.
03-05-13, 09:11 PM
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That is ridiculous. My communication to a government official is private because I am a private citizen. A letter from a government official to me is not private if I choose to share it because he/she is a government official. You make it sound like I'm violating a tax official's privacy by showing my wife a letter he/she sent me.
03-05-13, 09:14 PM
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03-05-13, 10:00 PM
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(maybe could just change "policemen" to "Orcutt" and keep the post 
)
Last edited by vol; 03-05-13 at 10:14 PM.
03-05-13, 11:01 PM
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You are right, the $25 figure is a random number, picked to make a point. Vehicle weight doesn't have a dang thing to do with it except for some wooly headed day dreaming and naval gazing.
03-05-13, 11:13 PM
#70
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A lot like shaking a soda can and then opening it.
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03-05-13, 11:13 PM
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03-06-13, 11:25 AM
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He also seemed to have learned from the experience, which is a much rarer thing. Cut him some slack already. (Not you specifically, but everybody.)
03-06-13, 02:25 PM
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03-06-13, 05:23 PM
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I'll stop when you stop.
To be fair the guy did recognize his own foolishness and back down so deserves a bit of slack. I see his letter made the Toronto Star so his fame has gone international. Politicians really do have to watch what they say.
Last edited by asmac; 03-06-13 at 05:29 PM.