JohnBrooking

I've recently begun a new route (office relocation), and I have an intersection which I'm not quite sure how to manage. Actually, I think I know, but I'd like to get your opinion as well.

A picture of the intersection is below. I'm turning left from the left-turn lane in the bottom of the picture, following the dotted line. There is a left-turn only green light on which I am usually moving, at the beginning of the green cycle, so during this time the only traffic in the intersection should be my lane turning left, and the opposite lane also turning to their left, which should not be in my way. I suppose there is also the possibility of opposing cars taking a right on red, although I haven't had it happen it yet. I don't remember if that lane is a right-turn only or a right turn or straight lane, but I'm thinking the latter.

My question is, which lane on the two-lane that I'm turning into should I aim for? Driving a car, I am supposed to turn into the nearest lane (although many people ignore this rule), but that seems to conflicts with the bike guideline of keeping as far to the right as practicable. Turning to the nearest (left) lane would have me end up in the middle of road as a whole, looking to move to the right as soon as I can, possibily conflicting with any cars that have taken the right lane already. On the other hand, if I aimed for the right-hand lane, there is a chance of a collision with a car taking a right-on-red into it.

My conclusion at this point is to aim for the middle of the right-hand lane, then move closer to the side of it after I'm through the intersection. This will keep cars behind me from passing me on the right into it, and also make me the most visible to any opposing cars tempted to turn right on red, while also avoiding getting caught in the middle of the road. Of course I'll need to be very vigilant about watching for any right-on-red cars, but this course of action seems to minimize the other risks.

What do you think?

Ubie

At least in New York (outside of NYC) you should go into the left hand lane of the street you are turning onto, this goes for autos and bicycles. This way someone making a right on red had a clear lane to turn onto. Might also keep you from getting bashed by the right-on-red car that's looking for cars in that lane and completely fails to notice a bicycle. This doesn't apply to NYC because there is no right-on-red here, but you should still probably go into the left lane to keep it nice and legal.

ArtM

I've never heard of this rule (maybe that is why I ignore it). Can you please site the applicable regulation?

And, I agree you should move into the middle or right side of the right lane.

JohnBrooking

Not without some research, which I don't feel like doing right now. But I remember learning it in driver's ed. in NY state. I think certainly for cars, it makes sense for the reason Ubie noted.

Daily Commute

I'd aim for the right lane, as you said, unless a car is turning right into it.

If there's a car moving into the right lane, I'd turn into the right side of the left lane, hang back, signal, and pull in behind the right turning car. Of course, you have to be ready to swerve out of the way in case the right-turning car decides to pull into the left lane.

Da Tinker

John, I think you called it right. Sometimes, safe & legal do not always match. Ride large, so a cager behind you is not tempted to pass you on the right through the intersection, and so that right-on-red drivers will see you.

eubi

I think you are right on the money, John. I'd do the same thing. Moving into the far lane when you have a choice of two during a left hand turn is legal here in CA, unless you are driving a commerical vehicle.

Right turn on red is typically allowed here in CA, unless specifically prohibited. I wouldn't count on it. I'd be making eye contact with any potential RH turn drivers...or bicycle riders..or jaywalkers!!

John E

About the time I got my driver's license (1966), California eased the requirements that left turns be made into the leftmost available lane, but kept the requirement that right turns be made into the rightmost available lane. Irrespective of the letter of the law, the correct move for a bicyclist is to aim for the right lane, while watching for right-on-red turners and other potential conflicts. Why strand yourself in the left lane and then have to make additional maneuvers across traffic to end up where you want to be?

PaperBoy

I am almost positive that here in Missouri you have to left-turn into the closest lane (billh or chicharon--do you guys know?) although most people happily ignore that rule. We also allow right turns on red--again, into the closest lane. With both of these circumstances in mind, I'd have to argue for the left lane at least through the turn. It seems like it would be least occupied.

JohnBrooking

For the record, I actually have no idea what the law on this is here in Maine. Driving, I usually try to turn into the nearest lane, but I'm basing this on what I was taught in New York state 20 years ago. However, I think I'd come to the same conclusion either way.

eubi

Here ya go...From Maine Motor Vehicle Code:

2. Left turns on 2-way roadways. At an intersection where traffic is permitted to move in both directions on each way entering the intersection, an approach for a left turn must be made in that portion of the right half of the way nearest the center line and by passing to the right of the center line where it enters the intersection. After entering the intersection, an operator must make the left turn so as to leave the intersection to the right of the center line of the roadway being entered.
When practicable, the left turn must be made in that portion of the intersection to the left of the center of the intersection.

An operator intending to turn to the left must yield the right-of-way to a vehicle approaching from the opposite direction that is so close as to constitute an immediate hazard.

[1993, c. 683, Pt. A, §2 (new); Pt. B, §5 (aff).]

Hmmm. There's that "When practicable" again. For bikes, I still say you are right.

Does your state DMV have a cycling safety booklet? That might explain the turn situation better. We have them here in CA, but it's usually difficult to find one in English.

my58vw

Approaching an intersection like such I actually will ride to the middle of the two lanes then move to the right. That gives anyone not watching making a right turn a chance to go around. I go through these intersections all the time...

LittleBigMan

Ok, this is what I get:

"Take the right lane, unless you have to take the left lane. But if it's more practical, take the left lane instead of the right lane."

operator

Without even quoting laws, just imagine what would happen if you had two lanes that turned left onto another 2 lane road and you quickly realize why.

I'd turn into the nearest lane then double check that it's okay to move over to where your supposed to be in normal traffic, then do it.

sbhikes

I head for the right-most lane and give evil glares to anybody who might want to make a right turn into the lane I'm aiming for. Sometimes they go anyway, but they do that when you are driving a car, too.

JohnBrooking

Maybe the question could be boiled down to what's the bigger danger:

1. People behind you trying to pass you on the right if you don't take the right lane first, or
2. People turning right-on-red into it if you do try to?

So far, I don't see a clear consensus.

It's been said on these boards that the two biggest goals of safety in traffic are visibility and predictability. I think you are going to visible anywhere towards the middle, no matter which lane you are aiming for. As for predictable, given that even many motorists don't necessarily aim for the nearest lane, law or no, I'm concerned that if I did, it might be more confusing to them. They probably have a greater expectation that I will stick to the right (even if not correct for that situation; what do they know?) than that I will turn into the near lane. I think this might have a bearing on the question.

Bekologist

The best line will be the one chosen each time you make that intersection: Sometimes, traffic in the opposite lane actually or potentially turning right will keep you turning into the left lane, and sometimes a clear turn into the far lane will be appropriate. Most cars will try to pass to the left in an intersection, I think. Additionally, in my experience, unless this is very broad intersection, a bicyclist turning will be able to match or exceed the speeds of turning cars, especially when the turn lane has been holding at red, leaving the cyclist 'pacing' in traffic through the turn and not likely to be passed until they have made a lane choice. Each time through, a new choice.

chicharron

I prefer the missionary postion, however I am a little bit conservative.

Litespeed

Serge - where are you? This is right up your alley.

LittleBigMan

I'd turn into the right lane.

Smaug

I asked a similar version of this questiom last summer.... here's the thread...


How Do I Turn Left?

CPcyclist

IMO (my understanding of the rules) you should turn in to the closer of the two lanes then work in to the right lane as soon as practical (not posible what the car behind you are going to think). If you make another left so after this I would consider staying in the lane until that turn.

LittleBigMan

Yes, if there are two left-turn lanes. But if there is only one left-turn lane and two receiving lanes, go to the rightmost lane through-lane (unless hazards prevent you.)

Alphie

Somewhat unrelated (I agree with the way John is turning to wind up initially in the middle of the right lane, because that is the way I do it ) but there is a scary intersection near my place that has 5 lanes each way, total. 2 lanes turning left, 2 lanes going straight, and one lane turning right. The vehicles in the 2 left turning lanes appear to be about to collide head-on (or at least right front corner to right front corner) with the cars coming from the opposite direction, turning left at the same time. They do have dashed lines to indicate the correct line in the turn, but the intersection still freaks me out. Lucky for me, there is a "shortcut" connecting road I can take on my bike to avoid this mess.

JohnBrooking

Pun intended?