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  1. #26
    Senior Member
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    South Korea built hundreds if not thousands of km
    of bike lane using that method. I like them. Not as nice as concrete dividers or a whole different road, but certainly useful.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by rekmeyata View Post
    The problem was the group did it for $350, the city would have to charge taxpayers an average of $20,000 per mile to do the same thing. You see, the city can't do anything unless a traffic/road engineer study is done, that alone will cost about $5,000 per mile; then they have to source the cones to get specially built traffic endurance safety cones that will cost $350 each; then it will take a crew of 8 guys at $22 an hour to take 6 hours to put up the cones, plus 2 supervisors being paid $35 an hour to watch the other 8 (and that cost per hour does not include their benefits and pension plan); then you have the fuel costs of the trucks etc etc etc. So you probably don't want the city to raise taxes more just to pay for cones going up all over the city to mark bike lanes at $20,000 per mile.

    And putting those cones up like the group did could have resulted in jail time and fines for the accused because the city would have claimed that since no safety engineer road surveys were done nor installed according to road protocols the group may have endangered other people by their actions. They luck out on that one.

    And to think, some people thought it would be that easy and that cheap. Good grief! We're talking about governments here boys and girls, not private citizens doing good deeds.
    You need to view the labor cost as a sunk cost. If they aren't doing something, they get paid anyway. Might as well have them doing something.

    Like installing a new light for $100,000 to improve traffic flow.

  3. #28
    ouate de phoque dramiscram's Avatar
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    We have that in Quebec. where the Montérégiade bike trail goes thru Granby ( a city of 50000+ people, you might know the Granby zoo) There's a strech of about 4-5 kms where the trail is on the street and it's separated from cars with something very similar to that.

    City employees will put them up in the spring around mid-april and take them down in autumn around mid october because snowplow would tear everything during our numerous winter snowstorms.

    It's been like that for many years so I never tought about it being good or bad, it's just there and you do with it and frankly I like it, it feel safer that way

    Next time I go in Granby I'll take a few pics and post them for you. They should be up in few days.
    Originally Posted by Leebo

    Headwind is like a hill without a soul. Just gear down and suffer.
    Quote Originally Posted by jrickards View Post
    Headwinds are hills dipped in evil!

  4. #29
    genec genec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rekmeyata View Post
    The problem was the group did it for $350, the city would have to charge taxpayers an average of $20,000 per mile to do the same thing. You see, the city can't do anything unless a traffic/road engineer study is done, that alone will cost about $5,000 per mile; then they have to source the cones to get specially built traffic endurance safety cones that will cost $350 each; then it will take a crew of 8 guys at $22 an hour to take 6 hours to put up the cones, plus 2 supervisors being paid $35 an hour to watch the other 8 (and that cost per hour does not include their benefits and pension plan); then you have the fuel costs of the trucks etc etc etc. So you probably don't want the city to raise taxes more just to pay for cones going up all over the city to mark bike lanes at $20,000 per mile.

    And putting those cones up like the group did could have resulted in jail time and fines for the accused because the city would have claimed that since no safety engineer road surveys were done nor installed according to road protocols the group may have endangered other people by their actions. They luck out on that one.

    And to think, some people thought it would be that easy and that cheap. Good grief! We're talking about governments here boys and girls, not private citizens doing good deeds.
    Interesting response... Now all we really need is a judge to put some folks doing community service, for driving badly, to work putting these things in...

    Of course then that brings in the courts and judges and their salaries and the unions get involved as those $22 an hour workers will be sitting idle, and some politician will jump on that and decide that street services cost too much (while he bills the city for an expensive lunch to discuss this with his contractor buddies...) Oy!

  5. #30
    Senior Member rekmeyata's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spivonious View Post
    I wish it was easier, but there is so much red tape to cut through that a $5000 path ends up costing $20,000.
    But to keep that cost in perspective, that is the average cost per MILE, not for 5 or 10 miles, 1 mile.

    See this if any of you have a problem wrapping your brain around the cost: http://www.walkinginfo.org/engineeri...ay-bicycle.cfm

  6. #31
    ouate de phoque dramiscram's Avatar
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    That's what we have in Granby, Qc.
    IMG_2371.JPGIMG_2372.JPG
    Originally Posted by Leebo

    Headwind is like a hill without a soul. Just gear down and suffer.
    Quote Originally Posted by jrickards View Post
    Headwinds are hills dipped in evil!

  7. #32
    Senior Member alhedges's Avatar
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    Although they're not common, we have at least one bike path with those where I live, and I think they work well in that context; they have breaks for turns and merging. I think they would also be good in places where cars parking in bike lanes was a problem.

  8. #33
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    IMO, these pylons and the burm between them introduce a new and probably not well understood hazard to the cyclists in the lane. In the event of a poor pass or other near-miss event between two cyclists, one may swerve out over the line.

    Granted that without the burm, the cyclist could be hit by a passing car, but still has the possibility of coming back into the shelter of the lane. OTOH, a cyclist hitting the burm at a shallow angle has an excellent chance of being dumped. This act the same as trolley tracks or other parallel hazards, and if dumped, we are assured that the cyclist will be thrown into the traffic lane.
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  9. #34
    Transportation Cyclist turbo1889's Avatar
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    Much prefer a correctly done rumble strip "barrier" (in quotes because short of an actual extremely heavy duty construct that could actually stop an 18-wheeler going 70-mph with a 10-ton load its only a mental barrier) then those little plastic pole things. Rumble strips have saved me more then once commuting home late at night by bicycle because I can hear a car coming up behind me wandering over the white line into "my lane" (actually the wide shoulder edge to the right of the white line on that road) in time for me to study the actions of the driver in my mirror and then if necessary take evasive action. More then once I've heard that sound from behind and after looking things over in the mirror made the decision to swing wide left and merged across the right vehicular slow lane and then into the left vehicular fast lane while watching the drunk in my rear view mirror to be sure he wasn't correcting and was still wandering right and then watch him/her/it go thumping down the shoulder edge right where I had been only a few seconds ago. Hitting those little plastic sticks might make enough noise as well but I doubt it would give that solid loud constant rumble that I can hear nearly a quarter of a mile behind me so I can watch them come up in my mirror and see if they are going to jerk over to the left after hitting the rumble strips or if they are too drunk and are going to continue to plow on down the shoulder edge and I need to merge over to the left.

    Plus I can ride my bike right over rumble strips if needed without so much as a second thought. Unless your running a road bike with like supper narrow and flimsy little wheels and the rumble strips are really big and deeply cut with sharp square edges the only problem with riding on them with a bike is the psychological effect it has on the inexperienced rider who doesn't know he/she can ride right over them if need be without loosing control because you panicked.

    Plus for those drivers who aren't drunk or falling asleep at the wheel but just wandering due to inattention rumble strips almost universally within short order make them cease and desist wandering over to the right and go back to the center of their lane. Most drivers have become almost instinctively trained to wake up and pay attention and center back up in their lane when their tires hit rumble strips. Why not use that to improve safety for cyclist riding to the right of the main traffic lanes on a high speed highway using something that motorists are already familiar with and have been trained to respond too. As to them not hitting those little plastic stick things - are you really confident enough to try to argue the point that motorists are properly trained not to hit stuff right in front of them with their cars? Especially stuff that probably won't even scratch the paint of their vehicles and they may not even notice they hit? At least with rumble strips unless they are really drunk or really stoned out of their heads they know it when they hit those, can't confidently say the same thing about those little plastic sticks.

    And as others have already stated, you don't need cycle lanes or wide well paved shoulder edges to the right of the other traffic lanes and you certainly don't need little plastic stick barriers for low speed roadways where traffic is moving at a slow enough pace that cyclist don't have a problem mixing as full equals riding center of lane even if they are going a little slower then other vehicles. Personally I use the 25-mph and 45-mph numbers to define what I consider "slow traffic that cyclist can mix with as full equals in the main traffic lanes" (25-mph or less speed roads) and "high speed traffic that cyclist don't have a prayer of being able to keep up and it would be nice to have our own place to ride out of the main traffic lanes" (45-mph or higher speed roads). And the space in-between those two numbers is the grey zone where it depends, others may use slightly different numbers then I do but most reasonably experience cyclists would agree that those numbers aren't outside of reality.

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