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-   -   I found this really upsetting (http://www.bikeforums.net/advocacy-safety/886600-i-found-really-upsetting.html)

ak08820 07-07-13 08:37 AM

My town is full of speed breakers. What would it take and how cheap it would be (saved lives, vehicles and dollars to insurance)to build a few speed bumps on this spot?

rekmeyata 07-07-13 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ak08820 (Post 15823435)
My town is full of speed breakers. What would it take and how cheap it would be (saved lives, vehicles and dollars to insurance)to build a few speed bumps on this spot?

Speed bumps can damage cars. I'ts better to put a photo radar system in instead then at least the town can make some money at the same time as scaring people to drive slower.

ak08820 07-08-13 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rekmeyata (Post 15824118)
Speed bumps can damage cars. I'ts better to put a photo radar system in instead then at least the town can make some money at the same time as scaring people to drive slower.

Speed bumps are preceded by warning signs. If a driver ignores those or is in a state of mind to not see them, then it would be better that his car get damaged instead of someone else's life/body/bike/car. That is the idea. Photo radar punishes the culprit after the damage is done. No use to the cyclist in this case.

rekmeyata 07-08-13 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ak08820 (Post 15826371)
Speed bumps are preceded by warning signs. If a driver ignores those or is in a state of mind to not see them, then it would be better that his car get damaged instead of someone else's life/body/bike/car. That is the idea. Photo radar punishes the culprit after the damage is done. No use to the cyclist in this case.

Speed bump signs are often not recognized as are photo radar signs. And most speed bumps can be hit by trucks and SUV's at full speed and not wrinkle them in the least bit. So you still have a bicycle accident with no proof of who hit them, at least with photo radar you have some chance of catching a hit and run in addition to it forcing more people to slow down then a speed bump would do.

Anyway, it's just an opinion, most communities won't do either.

dynaryder 07-08-13 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rekmeyata (Post 15824118)
Speed bumps can damage cars.

And also police/fire/emergency vehicles. Some locals wanted speed bumps in their neighborhood,but DDOT shot down the request because the next street over had them and they needed an ambulance route.

northernlights 07-12-13 01:05 PM

Interesting. Crotch rocket biker vs crotch rocket cyclist. Both are lucky to have walked away from that. It could have been a lot worse.

bhtooefr 07-14-13 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dynaryder (Post 15828244)
And also police/fire/emergency vehicles. Some locals wanted speed bumps in their neighborhood,but DDOT shot down the request because the next street over had them and they needed an ambulance route.

Some municipalities have split speed bumps, where emergency vehicles can take the middle of the lane, and if it's an ambulance or fire truck (or a similarly wide track vehicle), they don't get as hard of a hit.

FBinNY 07-14-13 12:18 PM

Speed bumps aren't a real solution, unless you want to live in a world where they're everyplace. The irony here is that this is a known racing road, to the extent that photographers hang around to shoot the races, as the one in the video here obviously was.

If it's that well known for speed, I'd expect that the police might hang out with a radar gun and control it. Yes, I'm aware that they may not catch anybody since the word will get out pretty fast, but that would solve the speed problem.

achoo 07-14-13 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by northernlights (Post 15844129)
Interesting. Crotch rocket biker vs crotch rocket cyclist. Both are lucky to have walked away from that. It could have been a lot worse.

WTH is a "crotch rocket cyclist"?

FBinNY 07-14-13 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by achoo (Post 15850000)
WTH is a "crotch rocket cyclist"?

Some folks here have little respect or tolerance for the lycra clad roadie crowd.

bhtooefr 07-14-13 03:01 PM

There's also Ohio's solution, which is simply to not maintain the roads, and let them become a series of heaves and potholes naturally.

northernlights 07-14-13 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FBinNY (Post 15850178)
Some folks here have little respect or tolerance for the lycra clad roadie crowd.

I have plenty of respect. The Tour de France and Olympic cycling are two of my favorite sporting events to watch. So is sportbike motorcyle circuit racing. And maybe that's where they belong? On the track.

FBinNY 07-14-13 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by northernlights (Post 15850479)
I have plenty of respect. The Tour de France and Olympic cycling are two of my favorite sporting events to watch. So is sportbike motorcyle circuit racing. And maybe that's where they belong? On the track.

From what I saw, the bicyclists were in full control of their vehicles, while the motorcyclist wasn't. I don't see any way that they can be lumped into the same category, except that they were all on two wheeled vehicles.

Am I missing something or do you not feel that riding road bicycles on public roads for pleasure is appropriate? Or is it how they're dressed? In any case how does it make any difference what they were riding.

Maybe we should all ride on tracks, or maybe the sidewalk?

rekmeyata 07-14-13 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by northernlights (Post 15850479)
I have plenty of respect. The Tour de France and Olympic cycling are two of my favorite sporting events to watch. So is sportbike motorcyle circuit racing. And maybe that's where they belong? On the track.

I agree that kind of thing belongs on the track, either that or they give us the jerseys for free so we can advertise for them. I understand a club having their own jersey, but just to wear a Campy or Trek or whatever is just something I can't personally do unless they give it to me for free, then I'll be a rolling billboard for them.

FBinNY 07-14-13 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rekmeyata (Post 15850599)
I agree that kind of thing belongs on the track, either that or they give us the jerseys for free so we can advertise for them. I understand a club having their own jersey, but just to wear a Campy or Trek or whatever is just something I can't personally do unless they give it to me for free, then I'll be a rolling billboard for them.

Now we're getting ridiculous. WTF can what one is wearing have to do with riding safely? I'm not criticizing your personal choice and am not in a position to, since I don't wear any label or advert unless I'm paid to do so (so far no takers), just saying it has nothing to do with the right to ride roads unmolested.

rekmeyata 07-14-13 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FBinNY (Post 15850607)
Now we're getting ridiculous. WTF can what one is wearing have to do with riding safely? I'm not criticizing your personal choice and am not in a position to, since I don't wear any label or advert unless I'm paid to do so (so far no takers), just saying it has nothing to do with the right to ride roads unmolested.

As if this thread wasn't already silly!

northernlights 07-14-13 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FBinNY (Post 15850490)
From what I saw, the bicyclists were in full control of their vehicles, while the motorcyclist wasn't. I don't see any way that they can be lumped into the same category, except that they were all on two wheeled vehicles.

Am I missing something or do you not feel that riding road bicycles on public roads for pleasure is appropriate? Or is it how they're dressed? In any case how does it make any difference what they were riding.

Maybe we should all ride on tracks, or maybe the sidewalk?


Your dress style doesn't mean anything to me. If anything if you're going to be riding on the street then wearing day-glo lycra is probably a smart thing to do because it makes you more visible.

But I would question if riding a road bike or sportbike (aka crotchrocket style cycles) could be considered pleasurable. I think people who ride them do it for the thrill and the speed not the pleasure of it. There can't be much pleasure being in that hunched over position for extended periods of time. But you're willing to sacrifice comfort for speed. They also like to show off to their friends or impress women (in the case of sportbikers). Cycling in a bike lane or on a bike path is fine but to ride a bicycle on a busy street like Mulholland that makes no provisions for cycling seems rather dumb to me, and certainly not pleasurable.

FBinNY 07-14-13 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by northernlights (Post 15850880)
\.....
But I would question if riding a road bike or sportbike (aka crotchrocket style cycles) could be considered pleasurable. I think people who ride them do it for the thrill and the speed not the pleasure of it. There can't be much pleasure being in that hunched over position for extended periods of time. But you're willing to sacrifice comfort for speed. They also like to show off to their friends or impress women (in the case of sportbikers). Cycling in a bike lane or on a bike path is fine but to ride a bicycle on a busy street like Mulholland that makes no provisions for cycling seems rather dumb to me, and certainly not pleasurable.

I hope you're kidding, but I suspect you're not. So now you're the arbiter of what's fun or pleasurable. Or you've joined the motorists in claiming that bicycles belong only on the sidewalk or in bike lanes.

It's sentiments like these that are the foundation of my general oposition to bike lanes. They reinforce the notion that bicycles should be relegated to separate but unequal facilities rather than being mainstreamed.

For the record, millions of enjoy all kinds of cycling on all kinds of roads all over the USA and world. You describe yourself as tolerant, but consider serious cycling a spectator sport. Might I politely suggest that you may be posting in the wrong forum.

Yes, I do own a "crotch rocket", have ridden it (and it's predecessors) ten of thousands of miles, all over the USA and Europe. I actually enjoy riding 100 miles or more at a clip on open roads, and don't need to be validated by you or anyone else. I also own a bike you might approve of (who cares?) and use it for commuting and basic transport, having gone voluntarily carless since July 4th 2009.

BTW- this would be a good time for you to come back with a "gotcha", but I'm not holding my breath.

seafood 07-14-13 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by northernlights (Post 15850880)
Your dress style doesn't mean anything to me. If anything if you're going to be riding on the street then wearing day-glo lycra is probably a smart thing to do because it makes you more visible.

But I would question if riding a road bike or sportbike (aka crotchrocket style cycles) could be considered pleasurable. I think people who ride them do it for the thrill and the speed not the pleasure of it. There can't be much pleasure being in that hunched over position for extended periods of time. But you're willing to sacrifice comfort for speed. They also like to show off to their friends or impress women (in the case of sportbikers). Cycling in a bike lane or on a bike path is fine but to ride a bicycle on a busy street like Mulholland that makes no provisions for cycling seems rather dumb to me, and certainly not pleasurable.

Let's not get all bent out of shape about the cyclists in this situation. They did absolutely nothing wrong. Whether they were doing something they enjoyed or not according to anyone else's standards is irrelevant. They weren't breaking any laws and they were injured through no fault of their own. That's wrong.

The road in question is a known hang-out for motorcyclists trying to "practice" -- or whatever they think they're doing -- on public roads. This is a terrible idea. This video was discussed in numerous motorcyclist forums and believe you me, the overwhelming majority opinion is that the motorcycle rider is a tool without an ethical leg to stand on. It is one thing for someone to be doing questionable stunts in public and getting away with it through a combination of luck, judgement and skill, but when you lose control and hurt someone as a result -- let him pay the consequences. I love motorbikes and raced for a long time myself: on actual race tracks with proper race bikes, with rule books and ambulances on standby. It is really really really fun. But anyone with a shred of a clue about real racing and real control knows not to do what this guy did on public roads. Hope everyone's recovering well.

northernlights 07-14-13 07:55 PM

Since its the LA area I don't want to blame the cyclist too much. Trying to find a decent place to ride your bike there can be very frustrating. Like finding a needle in the haystack. Southern California is a pretty hostile environment for people who love cycling, and I'm glad I don't live there anymore. Nothing but freeways and endless traffic jams. Jesus what a craphole that place is.

FBinNY 07-14-13 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by northernlights (Post 15851084)
Since its the LA area I don't want to blame the cyclist too much. ..... Jesus what a craphole that place is.

I'm sure things have improved since you left.

sudo bike 07-15-13 02:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by genec (Post 15562381)
First of all this was obviously filmed from many angles... so there were crew on location... how in the world did everyone miss the cyclists being on the road in front of the motorcyclist. Those cyclists did not just suddenly "materialize" right there.

Is this some sort movie shoot gone bad or what?

And last, (very very last...) what is with the girl in white and her buttcrack?

It doesn't look like they weren't seen, it looks like they were seen and the rider could not control his ride competently enough to not collide - riding over his ability. Ever ride your bike as a kid along the sidewalk and get your tires reeeaaally close to the curb, and freeze up when you try to either move away or move over because you got tunnel vision on the tire? It looked like the same thing to me. Inexperienced rider with more bike than he could handle.

RyderTheRider 07-15-13 06:01 AM

I almost seemed like he was aiming at them.

bhtooefr 07-15-13 06:38 AM

As was said before, that looked clearly like target fixation.

Which is something they harp on in the classroom portion of the MSF Basic RiderCourse, and then cover some in the riding portion, but the MSF BRC is woefully inadequate IMO, because it focuses on low-speed handling skills, and doesn't actually cover any riding in traffic at all, other than the classroom portion. And even that class isn't mandatory!

(The course is 15 hours total. I sure as hell didn't feel comfortable on a motorcycle after that, even though I got my license at the end easily. I ended up spending the motorcycle fund on a recumbent trike instead.)

unterhausen 07-15-13 06:41 AM

if you watch the other videos on that account, you will see people driving into the guard rail there. There is even one guy on a scooter that hits the rail. It's a tight turn that apparently has a reducing radius in that direction. People go in too hot and don't know what to do about it. There may have been some target fixation in this case, a lot of people have that theory


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