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-   -   Carlos Bertonatti (http://www.bikeforums.net/advocacy-safety/886720-carlos-bertonatti.html)

Chris516 09-06-13 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KCNEWF (Post 16038973)
I apologize. It appears I misinterpreted line #397 pf the docket (link in the original post) which states

"REPORT RE: SENTENCING SET FOR 09/09/2013 AT 10:00"

My original interpretation was that sentencing was scheduled. I now see that as more likely to be a pre-sentencing report.

Justice is slow, but at least the scum bag is sitting in jail rather than bonded out. I can only hope he has been introduced to the old jail time favorite game of "drop the soap".

I looked it up again, and I found the part of the docket where it said that. So technically, you are right. I was going on the most recent activity on the case. Knowing the games his attorney has played, the court date on 9-9-2013 probably won't happen and just pushed back, again.

mconlonx 09-06-13 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mconlonx (Post 15799306)
Again, find me a case over which she presided which took less time in a case similar to this one and then everyone has a leg to stand on. Until then, just so much poutrage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FBinNY (Post 15858660)
But before we start feeling sorry for ourselves, I'd like to see some evidence that the courts treat cyclist fatalities differently than other MV fatalities under comparable conditions.

Don't hold your breath.

If y'all frothing at the mouth, indignant and poutraged flagellants want to get ahead of the curve, check public records for her sentencing history.

Because when you start to sputter about whatever sentence is handed down as way too lenient and how he should be drawn and quartered in a public square, the same question will be asked: is she actually doing anything different in this case because the victim was a cyclist compared to other cases with at-fault vehicular fatalities?

(Note to self: uh-oh... he better get some time or you gonna be eating some serious crow and will look the absolute fool.)

Are you justified in your anger, or are you infuriants?

FBinNY 09-06-13 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mconlonx (Post 16039250)
Don't hold your breath.

If y'all frothing at the mouth, indignant and poutraged flagellants want to get ahead of the curve, check public records for her sentencing history.

Because when you start to sputter about whatever sentence is handed down as way too lenient and how he should be drawn and quartered in a public square, the same question will be asked: is she actually doing anything different in this case because the victim was a cyclist compared to other cases with at-fault vehicular fatalities?

(Note to self: uh-oh... he better get some time or you gonna be eating some serious crow and will look the absolute fool.)

Are you justified in your anger, or are you infuriants?

I'm sorry, but what does my quote you cited have to do with what you're saying. All I did was say that essentially I wasn't convinced that courts treated cases with cyclists as victims any different than others. I believe I was responding to a post (or posts) which made that claim.

As for this case, I haven't been following it closely enough to have a reasoned opinion either way, except that this defendent doesn't seem to be one who deserves any sympathy or mercy from this court.

mconlonx 09-07-13 06:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FBinNY (Post 16039408)
I'm sorry, but what does my quote you cited have to do with what you're saying. All I did was say that essentially I wasn't convinced that courts treated cases with cyclists as victims any different than others. I believe I was responding to a post (or posts) which made that claim.

That's it exactly. I asked basically the same question about a different aspect previously, which I also quoted. Don't expect an answer...

The rest of that rant was absolutely not aimed at you, but at the same people who don't answer questions like you pose

I have a feeling that sentences handed down to killers of cyclists are very similar to those handed out in other cases, that much of the focus on this being a cycling-specific thing is at best counterproductive. The good in it is bringing the farce of getting away with murder as long as you're in a car to light and keeping it there. The bad is considering this a cycling-only thing. We need a much wider group of allies to make any difference if we want to change laws and actually do something about it. As opposed to ranting to the converted on a sub-section of a specialist, niche online forum echo chamber.

KCNEWF 09-07-13 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mconlonx (Post 16040220)

I have a feeling that sentences handed down to killers of cyclists are very similar to those handed out in other cases, that much of the focus on this being a cycling-specific thing is at best counterproductive.

I agree. I know of a person on a 3rd DUI - no wrecks - that was sentenced to 1 yr with all but 1 week suspended. The way the courts treat DUI offenders is a joke . . .regardless of whether anyone (cyclist or not) is killed, in DUI cases the offending alcoholic is often treated by the courts more like a victim of a disease than the criminal that they are.

My prediction: Carlos goes home from prison less than 1 year after the sentence is handed down. As typical with DUI cases. . . No justice will be served. . . . . I hope I'm wrong.

FBinNY 09-07-13 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KCNEWF (Post 16041269)
I agree. I know of a person on a 3rd DUI - no wrecks - that was sentenced to 1 yr with all but 1 week suspended. ....

My prediction: Carlos goes home from prison less than 1 year after the sentence is handed down. As typical with DUI cases. . . No justice will be served. . . . . I hope I'm wrong.

I hope so too, but expect that you will be. Judges tend to treat DUI per se, even after multiple convictions very different than DUI with injury.

This is consistent with other aspects of law where criminality depends on action and consequences. Consider discharging a gun. Simply discharging a gun where nobody is hit, even into a populated area, is simply unlaeully discharging a fire arm, or possibly reckless endangerment. Same gun. but aimed at someone, can up grade this to ADW or, attempted murder, and actually hitting someone, though not killing them would generally bring a tougher sentence. Same gun, but aiming at, hitting and killing someone is murder, and brings the longest sentence.

As regards the difference between attempted murder and successful murder, I think it's a dumb way of giving preference to bad shots, but that's the way it is.

Given the defendant's prior history, I'd be surprised if the judge didn't feel some institutional impatience with his BS and handed down a fairly tough sentence. But then again one never knows, and neither will we until the fat lady sings.

KCNEWF 09-09-13 07:41 PM

Sentencing hearing started on Monday 9/9.

http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/Carlos-...222948341.html

The scumbag actually had the nerve to call this an "accident" in his initial statement at the hearing and then referred to him mowing down the cyclist as an "incident". It sounds to me like the scum is only sorry that he got caught.

I think that the sentencing hearing continues on Tuesday 9/10.

Chris516 09-09-13 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KCNEWF (Post 16048868)
Sentencing hearing started on Monday 9/9.

http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/Carlos-...222948341.html

The scumbag actually had the nerve to call this an "accident" in his initial statement at the hearing and then referred to him mowing down the cyclist as an "incident". It sounds to me like the scum is only sorry that he got caught.

I think that the sentencing hearing continues on Tuesday 9/10.

This was the only thing that happened.....420 09/09/2013 REPORT RE: SENTENCING SET FOR 09/10/2013 AT 08:45

Nothing else, that figures.

Essex 09-10-13 07:06 AM

Glad that he is locked up. And that he will be sentenced. Interesting to note that he has a higher degree of language fluency than I had expected, along with some coaching by his attorneys.

Let's hope he gets the maximum sentence.

Chicago Al 09-10-13 07:31 AM

Despite his no-doubt carefully rehearsed words, the 'accident' and 'incident' slips don't attest to genuine acceptance of responsibility or remorse. It wasn't a 'freak accident,' nor was it an 'incident' that occurred out of the blue.

Chris516 09-10-13 10:59 AM

This just came on court activity just a moment ago.

423 09/10/2013
ORDER: ORDER FOR THE CLERK OF COURT NOT DESTROY BIKE

If they kept the bike intact for three years, I would be surprised in this case. Even though evidence is not supposed to be destroyed, or tampered with.

mconlonx 09-10-13 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris516 (Post 16051015)
This just came on court activity just a moment ago.

423 09/10/2013
ORDER: ORDER FOR THE CLERK OF COURT NOT DESTROY BIKE

If they kept the bike intact for three years, I would be surprised in this case. Even though evidence is not supposed to be destroyed, or tampered with.

Perhaps indicative of an immediately pending appeal?

FBinNY 09-10-13 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mconlonx (Post 16051524)
Perhaps indicative of an immediately pending appeal?

Most likely. Just about any sentence will be appealed as will be the conviction. On the bright side most criminal case appeals happen while the convict is serving his sentence.

Our friend may appeal all he wants while serving, and hopefully the judge won't suspend the sentence pending the appeal.

mconlonx 09-10-13 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FBinNY (Post 16051590)
Most likely. Just about any sentence will be appealed as will be the conviction. On the bright side most criminal case appeals happen while the convict is serving his sentence.

Our friend may appeal all he wants while serving, and hopefully the judge won't suspend the sentence pending the appeal.

Hopefully the judge considering the appeal takes as long as it did for this trial to finally happen...

Chris516 09-10-13 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mconlonx (Post 16051742)
Hopefully the judge considering the appeal takes as long as it did for this trial to finally happen...

What trial? It has just been one court appearance after another, with repeated trial dates set. Yet, No trial.

FBinNY 09-10-13 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris516 (Post 16052100)
What trial? It has just been one court appearance after another, with repeated trial dates set. Yet, No trial.

You or I must have missed something. AFAIK, he's been convicted (or pled out) and is awaiting sentencing.

In other words, we're past the trial phase.

Chris516 09-10-13 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FBinNY (Post 16052222)
You or I must have missed something. AFAIK, he's been convicted (or pled out) and is awaiting sentencing.

In other words, we're past the trial phase.

Looking at the court record, they filed an affidavit, and took depositions. But there is nothing about a trial starting. Yes, There is a record of a 'scheduled' sentencing. But there has been a 'scheduled' sentencing on several occasions, where it ended up that his attorney wasn't available, or some other excuse. Also, The people the court took depositions' from four days ago, are not the same people that have been subpoenaed multiple times.

When someone is deposed, it is not done in the courtroom and it is in written or oral form.

This has been the court activity since the beginning of June, when the defense witness list was first submitted:


Seq. No. Date Book/Page Docket
424 09/10/2013
REPORT RE: SENTENCING SET FOR 09/11/2013 AT 08:45
423 09/10/2013
ORDER: ORDER FOR THE CLERK OF COURT NOT DESTROY BIKE
426 09/09/2013
DEPOSITION OF: RONALD D. MCANDREW
420 09/09/2013
REPORT RE: SENTENCING SET FOR 09/10/2013 AT 08:45
422 09/06/2013
NOTICE OF FILING SUPPLEMENTAL EXHIBIT
421 09/06/2013
NOTICE OF FILING AFFIDAVIT
417 09/06/2013
DEPOSITION OF: RONALD D. MCANDREW
416 09/06/2013
DEPOSITION OF: ADRIAN PENA
415 09/06/2013
DEPOSITION OF: JORGE MEJIA
414 09/06/2013
DEPOSITION OF: CHRISTOPHER RODRIGUEZ
413 09/06/2013
DEPOSITION OF: PATRICIA NIETO
412 09/04/2013
NOTICE COST RECOVERY PURS TO F.S. 938.27
411 09/03/2013
NOTICE OF TAKING DEPOSITION
409 08/20/2013
REPORT RE: STATUS SET FOR 08/23/2013 AT 08:45
407 07/30/2013
NOTICE OF TAKING DEPOSITION
405 07/23/2013
NOTICE COST RECOVERY PURS TO F.S. 938.27
404 07/18/2013
AMENDED DISCOVERY EXHIBIT
403 07/02/2013
SUBPOENA DUCES TECUM RETURN OF SERVICE
402 06/19/2013
NOTICE OF UNAVAILABILITY OF COUNSEL ROBERTO E. PERTIERRA, P.A.
401 06/18/2013
ORDER: ORDER FOR CORRECTIONS TO PROVIDE RECORDS
399 06/18/2013
ORDER: ORDER FOR DOCTOR NOTES
397 06/18/2013
REPORT RE: SENTENCING SET FOR 09/09/2013 AT 10:00
396 06/18/2013
REPORT RE: STATUS SET FOR 08/21/2013 AT 08:45
395 06/10/2013
NOTICE OF UNAVAILABILITY OF COUNSEL RENE A SOTORRIO, ESQ
394 06/06/2013
DEFENSE WITNESS LIST

Twice defense counsel has been unavailable. Twice there has be a Report for sentencing scheduled.

That is just from June.

Here is the entire court record to date:

https://www2.miami-dadeclerk.com/cji...ZCQ7tf4t4N/w==

FBinNY 09-10-13 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris516 (Post 16052338)
Looking at the court record, they filed an affidavit, and took depositions. But there is nothing about a trial starting. Yes, There is a record of a 'scheduled' sentencing. But there has been a 'scheduled' sentencing on several occasions, where it ended up that his attorney wasn't available, or some other excuse.

I haven't been following this as closely as others, but if they're setting dates for sentencing, or motions related to sentencing, than there had to have been a guilty plea or verdict. Courts don't take up sentencing before conviction.

EDIT-- quick internet research. There wasn't nor will there be a trial, because he entered a guilty plea back in February. Of course, he might now try to withdraw the plea based on something like bad lawyering, but withdrawing pleas is usually pretty difficult.

Chris516 09-10-13 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FBinNY (Post 16052388)
I haven't been following this as closely as others, but if they're setting dates for sentencing, or motions related to sentencing, than there had to have been a guilty plea or verdict. Courts don't take up sentencing before conviction.

A judgment of guilt was made on February 26, 2013. But again, the depositions were from people, that had not been subpoenaed to testify. That was the first judgment of guilt in three years. Also, There have been multiple dates for sentencing. So I will believe that he will be sentenced when, 'the sky falls', 'cows fly' and, Elvis comes out of the grave.

Juha 09-11-13 05:10 AM

Elvis is in a grave?

But yes, I wonder if the case will be closed before it's full 4 years since Carlos killed the cyclist. :rolleyes:

Chris516 09-11-13 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juha (Post 16053502)
Elvis is in a grave?

But yes, I wonder if the case will be closed before it's full 4 years since Carlos killed the cyclist. :rolleyes:

(yes, I know there are some people who don't think Elvis was buried and that he is still alive)

Chris516 09-12-13 03:45 AM

Just took a look.

Yesterday, Whatever sentencing was put off for the second consecutive day. It is scheduled for 10am this morning.

Also, One that wasn't listed yesterday, but is somehow now on the court record:

427 09/09/2013
MOTION TO COMPEL RECIPROCAL DISCOVERY (STATE)

His attorney filed a motion to find out what evidence the state had.

ZmanKC 09-12-13 09:16 AM

Per David Ovalle of the Miami Hearld:
BREAKING: Key Biscayne's Carlos Bertonatti to serve 12 years for DUI hit-run death of cyclist Christophe LeCanne, judge rules

10 Wheels 09-12-13 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZmanKC (Post 16057932)
Per David Ovalle of the Miami Hearld:
BREAKING: Key Biscayne's Carlos Bertonatti to serve 12 years for DUI hit-run death of cyclist Christophe LeCanne, judge rules

http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/09/1...-sentence.html

howsteepisit 09-12-13 09:38 AM

I don't know. 12 years is the bottom of the range of the sentencing guidelines, so this seems kind of a light sentence. But I am not sure that 30 years would be a better punishment than 12 years. Right nowI feel like its just too light in view of all the crap pulled in this guys case. But there is also a social fail in having a guy with 46 tickets even driving. There is no way this guy should have been driving at all, drunk or sober. I especially like the way the newspaper refers to Bertonatti as an aspiring pop musician rater than a more descriptive moniker such a drunken piss poor driver finally killed an innocent man after 46 attempts.


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