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-   -   Carlos Bertonatti (http://www.bikeforums.net/advocacy-safety/886720-carlos-bertonatti.html)

FBinNY 09-12-13 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris516 (Post 16052440)
...when 'cows fly'

Seagulls and pigeons were bad enough. now I have to worry about falling cow paddies?

Chris516 09-12-13 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FBinNY (Post 16058016)
Seagulls and pigeons were bad enough. now I have to worry about falling cow paddies?

That is a riot!!!!!:roflmao2:

Chris516 09-12-13 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by howsteepisit (Post 16058010)
I don't know. 12 years is the bottom of the range of the sentencing guidelines, so this seems kind of a light sentence. But I am not sure that 30 years would be a better punishment than 12 years. Right now, I feel like its just too light in view of all the crap pulled in this guys case. But there is also a social fail in having a guy with 46 tickets even driving. There is no way this guy should have been driving at all, drunk or sober. I especially like the way the newspaper refers to Bertonatti as an aspiring pop musician rather than a more descriptive moniker such a drunken piss poor driver finally killed an innocent man after 46 attempts.

I was thinking the same thing, regarding the sentence and the sentencing guidelines. I bet Christopher LeCanne had been driving a car, and Carlos Bertonatti had knocked him off the causeway into the water, drowning him. That Judge Miller would have given Carlos Bertonatti the full 37yrs., instead of the bare minimum.
His own brother tried to claim, that it was him and not Carlos Bertonatti, that got the 46 tickets.

I bet he will get sent to a minimum-security prison. Perfect for the minimum sentence.

mconlonx 09-12-13 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris516 (Post 16058094)
I bet Christopher LeCanne had been driving a car, and Carlos Bertonatti had knocked him off the causeway into the water, drowning him. That Judge Miller would have given Carlos Bertonatti the full 37yrs., instead of the bare minimum.

Why do you think that? Do you know Judge Miller's sentencing history in similar cases not involving a cyclist, where a vehicle driver or pedestrian was killed by a DWI hit and run driver?

FBinNY 09-12-13 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mconlonx (Post 16058113)
Why do you think that? Do you know Judge Miller's sentencing history in similar cases not involving a cyclist, where a vehicle driver or pedestrian was killed by a DWI hit and run driver?

+1,

I don't know the specifics and have no way of knowing what the Judge's reasoning was, but I get sorry of the "we're just cyclists and nobody cares" line. IME, drivers tend to be punished equally or even worse for criminally killing or injuring cyclists and pedestrians vs. other drivers.

Though it shouldn't factor, media coverage plays a bigger role than what should be more material considerations.

howsteepisit 09-12-13 10:47 AM

My thoughts were more along the lines of is 12 years appropriate for the offense and the history, not specific to any anti-cyclist bias that may or may not exist in the judiciary. My thinkings is that the minimum sentence should be for a "first time errors" where bad judgment caused a death, not for a habitual bad driver who has enough tickets with or without his brothers contributions to the driving record, to demonstrate a callus disregard for public safety, plus drunk driving plus lying about it to the police at the time of arrest, and so on. Seems to me that if those conditions give rise to a minimum sentence, then there is no incentive to not flees, lie, and so on. Or to put it another way, once the deed is done, why not lie, cheat and run if the punishment is the same?

Chris516 09-12-13 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mconlonx (Post 16058113)
Why do you think that? Do you know Judge Miller's sentencing history in similar cases not involving a cyclist, where a vehicle driver or pedestrian was killed by a DWI hit and run driver?

While I don't know Judge Miller's sentencing record in similar cases. In general(including Judge Miller), this is 'par for the course', when it comes to the sentences for killing a cyclist, premeditated or not. The life of a cyclist, means less to law enforcement, from the LEO, all the way to the judge. When the motorist that killed Ken Kifer got 23yrs., that is a rarity. 46 drunk driving citations, culminating in killing someone. Had a motorist been killed by Carlos Bertonatti's drunk driving, I can assure you that, MADD(Mothers Against Drunk Driving) would have been out in force, and he would have received a stiffer sentence than what he received. At the bare minimum(somehow), Carlos Bertonatti could have received only four years. So, Twelve years is not that much better.

ItsJustMe 09-12-13 12:01 PM

Honestly, these days I'm just thankful that vehicular homicide perpetrators get ANY jail time more than a year or two. People have gotten off in some pretty bad cases with no time at all or just a few months. It could be better than 12 years, but it could also be a lot worse.

mconlonx 09-12-13 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by howsteepisit (Post 16058267)
My thoughts were more along the lines of is 12 years appropriate for the offense and the history, not specific to any anti-cyclist bias that may or may not exist in the judiciary. My thinkings is that the minimum sentence should be for a "first time errors" where bad judgment caused a death, not for a habitual bad driver who has enough tickets with or without his brothers contributions to the driving record, to demonstrate a callus disregard for public safety, plus drunk driving plus lying about it to the police at the time of arrest, and so on. Seems to me that if those conditions give rise to a minimum sentence, then there is no incentive to not flees, lie, and so on. Or to put it another way, once the deed is done, why not lie, cheat and run if the punishment is the same?

I don't know what his previous record indicates, but if they were all just civil infractions which did not rise to the level of misdemeanor or felony, they probably didn't count for much in the judge's sentencing decision.

Wait, did he have previous DWIs? Otherwise, compared to traffic tickets, this would be a first time offense type of situation.

I'm happy he even got 12. I someone pessimistically expected far less.

mconlonx 09-12-13 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris516 (Post 16058522)
While I don't know Judge Miller's sentencing record in similar cases. In general(including Judge Miller), this is 'par for the course', when it comes to the sentences for killing a cyclist, premeditated or not. The life of a cyclist, means less to law enforcement, from the LEO, all the way to the judge. When the motorist that killed Ken Kifer got 23yrs., that is a rarity. 46 drunk driving citations, culminating in killing someone. Had a motorist been killed by Carlos Bertonatti's drunk driving, I can assure you that, MADD(Mothers Against Drunk Driving) would have been out in force, and he would have received a stiffer sentence than what he received. At the bare minimum(somehow), Carlos Bertonatti could have received only four years. So, Twelve years is not that much better.

Oh, right, you're insane. :rolleyes:

Time for me to not feed a troll anymore.

Chris516 09-12-13 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mconlonx (Post 16058584)
Oh, right, you're insane. :rolleyes:

Time for me to not feed a troll anymore.

Maybe you trust the 'system' to not have a bias towards cyclists', but I don't.

sudo bike 09-12-13 04:17 PM

I'm more or less happy with 12 years. I'd be happier if we changed the system to prevent this rather than punitive reactions after the fact. But considering what we have to work with, 12 years isn't bad, really.

FBinNY 09-12-13 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sudo bike (Post 16059417)
I'm more or less happy with 12 years. I'd be happier if we changed the system to prevent this rather than punitive reactions after the fact. But considering what we have to work with, 12 years isn't bad, really.

I don't know what can be done to prevent hit-and-runs. Maybe install G-meters wired to the ignition?

Living in a free society means relying on people to do the right thing. It's successful when most do, but we'll never see the day when all do.

sudo bike 09-12-13 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FBinNY (Post 16059557)
I don't know what can be done to prevent hit-and-runs. Maybe install G-meters wired to the ignition?

Living in a free society means relying on people to do the right thing. It's successful when most do, but we'll never see the day when all do.

More stringent licensing requirements, including training for emergency situations. In Hungary, you must learn how to give first aid (and are actually required to... you can't be sued for attempting, because it is taken as a given that you are trained in very basic stuff). I think this would make it less likely for people to run, since they have at least a vague idea what to expect and what to do. Won't eliminate it, of course. (As an aside, basic knowledge of how a car actually works is required, along with very basic maintenance, like how to check that your brake fluid is OK, etc.)

Of course, a lot would need to be done here to accomplish that. Training, for one. Laws specifically exempting people from liability if they utilize their training. More to the point, it is very difficult to impose more stringent driving standards when it is often the only practical method of transit... we can't really crack down on drivers as effectively as we might like until there are other ways for people to get to and from work, school, etc (i.e. public transit), without pretty big societal costs.

gcottay 09-13-13 01:38 PM

I hope the appeal works and Bertonatti gets a revised sentence. Assuming good time and other early release provisions, thirty-seven years would be about right.

rydabent 09-13-13 08:45 PM

Wasnt it suposed to be handed down today? Anyone know what happened?

FBinNY 09-13-13 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rydabent (Post 16063783)
Wasnt it suposed to be handed down today? Anyone know what happened?

Wasn't what supposed to happen? If you're talking about sentencing, you might take a minute to scroll back through the thread for a few days of posts.

Chris516 09-14-13 02:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gcottay (Post 16062476)
I hope the appeal works and Bertonatti gets a revised sentence. Assuming good time and other early release provisions, thirty-seven years would be about right.

Good point, I agree.

unterhausen 11-18-13 10:01 AM

sentenced to 12 years http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/Judge-t...223462431.html

Essex 11-18-13 10:15 AM

Good decision. What I don't understand is that if Bertonatti accepts his responsibility that he/his family should abide by the decision set forth by the court and quit bawling in court ; interesting too is that his lawyer pronounces the word 'patently' differently and plays the crowd saying that he's angry. Of course, there is the appeal process.

CB HI 11-18-13 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unterhausen (Post 16255978)

4 year minimum with 2 years time served. Resonable chance he may only serve another 2 years.

Sounds like the lawyer and family wanted a 4 year sentence with probably minimum of 1-2 years, meaning the guy would get out within a few days of the sentence plus time to process the paperwork.

genec 11-18-13 06:45 PM

Remember folks, he wasn't sentenced for killing a cyclist, he was sentenced for driving drunk and killing a cyclist.

Had he been sober, he might have walked away.

CB HI 11-18-13 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by genec (Post 16257581)
Remember folks, he wasn't sentenced for killing a cyclist, he was sentenced for driving drunk and killing a cyclist.

Had he been sober, he might have walked away.

Although not stated, a good part of the sentence likely was due to how he behaved with the police.

Chris516 11-27-13 08:49 PM

Below, Is what has happened since his sentence was handed down, along with where he is incarcerated.

477 11/07/2013
D C A ORDER FOR EXTENTION OF TIME TRANSCRIPTS EXTENDED UP TO & INCLUDING 12/30/2013 #3D13-2535
476 10/29/2013
STATEMENT OF JUDICIAL ACTS AND DESIGNATIONS TO CRT REPORTER
475 10/03/2013
APPELLATE COURT CASE NUMBER DCA/#3D13-2535
473 10/03/2013
NOTICE OF APPEAL TRANSMITTED TO DCA
474 10/03/2013
RECORD ON APPEAL DUE DATE - 11/20/2013
472 10/02/2013 028851/00073
NOTICE OF APPEAL J&S/ PUBLIC DEFENDER
471 09/25/2013
ORDER: ORDER OF INSOLVENCY AND APPOINTMENT OF COUNSEL
470 09/25/2013
APPELLANT ATTY PDEF/PUBLIC DEFENDER APPOINTMENT, AS
467 09/19/2013
TRANSCRIPT OF COURT HEARING SEPTEMBER 9, 2013
465 09/19/2013
REPORT RE: APPEAL SET FOR 09/25/2013 AT 08:45
469 09/18/2013
COMMITMENT ISSUED

http://www.dc.state.fl.us/ActiveInma...onID=799478390

Looking at his inmate photo, he looks like pure evil.


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