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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris516 View Post
    ...when 'cows fly'
    Seagulls and pigeons were bad enough. now I have to worry about falling cow paddies?
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  2. #77
    24-Speed Machine Chris516's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
    Seagulls and pigeons were bad enough. now I have to worry about falling cow paddies?
    That is a riot!!!!!

  3. #78
    24-Speed Machine Chris516's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by howsteepisit View Post
    I don't know. 12 years is the bottom of the range of the sentencing guidelines, so this seems kind of a light sentence. But I am not sure that 30 years would be a better punishment than 12 years. Right now, I feel like its just too light in view of all the crap pulled in this guys case. But there is also a social fail in having a guy with 46 tickets even driving. There is no way this guy should have been driving at all, drunk or sober. I especially like the way the newspaper refers to Bertonatti as an aspiring pop musician rather than a more descriptive moniker such a drunken piss poor driver finally killed an innocent man after 46 attempts.
    I was thinking the same thing, regarding the sentence and the sentencing guidelines. I bet Christopher LeCanne had been driving a car, and Carlos Bertonatti had knocked him off the causeway into the water, drowning him. That Judge Miller would have given Carlos Bertonatti the full 37yrs., instead of the bare minimum.
    His own brother tried to claim, that it was him and not Carlos Bertonatti, that got the 46 tickets.

    I bet he will get sent to a minimum-security prison. Perfect for the minimum sentence.
    Last edited by Chris516; 09-12-13 at 10:05 AM.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris516 View Post
    I bet Christopher LeCanne had been driving a car, and Carlos Bertonatti had knocked him off the causeway into the water, drowning him. That Judge Miller would have given Carlos Bertonatti the full 37yrs., instead of the bare minimum.
    Why do you think that? Do you know Judge Miller's sentencing history in similar cases not involving a cyclist, where a vehicle driver or pedestrian was killed by a DWI hit and run driver?

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by mconlonx View Post
    Why do you think that? Do you know Judge Miller's sentencing history in similar cases not involving a cyclist, where a vehicle driver or pedestrian was killed by a DWI hit and run driver?
    +1,

    I don't know the specifics and have no way of knowing what the Judge's reasoning was, but I get sorry of the "we're just cyclists and nobody cares" line. IME, drivers tend to be punished equally or even worse for criminally killing or injuring cyclists and pedestrians vs. other drivers.

    Though it shouldn't factor, media coverage plays a bigger role than what should be more material considerations.
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  6. #81
    Senior Member howsteepisit's Avatar
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    My thoughts were more along the lines of is 12 years appropriate for the offense and the history, not specific to any anti-cyclist bias that may or may not exist in the judiciary. My thinkings is that the minimum sentence should be for a "first time errors" where bad judgment caused a death, not for a habitual bad driver who has enough tickets with or without his brothers contributions to the driving record, to demonstrate a callus disregard for public safety, plus drunk driving plus lying about it to the police at the time of arrest, and so on. Seems to me that if those conditions give rise to a minimum sentence, then there is no incentive to not flees, lie, and so on. Or to put it another way, once the deed is done, why not lie, cheat and run if the punishment is the same?
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  7. #82
    24-Speed Machine Chris516's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mconlonx View Post
    Why do you think that? Do you know Judge Miller's sentencing history in similar cases not involving a cyclist, where a vehicle driver or pedestrian was killed by a DWI hit and run driver?
    While I don't know Judge Miller's sentencing record in similar cases. In general(including Judge Miller), this is 'par for the course', when it comes to the sentences for killing a cyclist, premeditated or not. The life of a cyclist, means less to law enforcement, from the LEO, all the way to the judge. When the motorist that killed Ken Kifer got 23yrs., that is a rarity. 46 drunk driving citations, culminating in killing someone. Had a motorist been killed by Carlos Bertonatti's drunk driving, I can assure you that, MADD(Mothers Against Drunk Driving) would have been out in force, and he would have received a stiffer sentence than what he received. At the bare minimum(somehow), Carlos Bertonatti could have received only four years. So, Twelve years is not that much better.

  8. #83
    Seńior Member ItsJustMe's Avatar
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    Honestly, these days I'm just thankful that vehicular homicide perpetrators get ANY jail time more than a year or two. People have gotten off in some pretty bad cases with no time at all or just a few months. It could be better than 12 years, but it could also be a lot worse.
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    Quote Originally Posted by howsteepisit View Post
    My thoughts were more along the lines of is 12 years appropriate for the offense and the history, not specific to any anti-cyclist bias that may or may not exist in the judiciary. My thinkings is that the minimum sentence should be for a "first time errors" where bad judgment caused a death, not for a habitual bad driver who has enough tickets with or without his brothers contributions to the driving record, to demonstrate a callus disregard for public safety, plus drunk driving plus lying about it to the police at the time of arrest, and so on. Seems to me that if those conditions give rise to a minimum sentence, then there is no incentive to not flees, lie, and so on. Or to put it another way, once the deed is done, why not lie, cheat and run if the punishment is the same?
    I don't know what his previous record indicates, but if they were all just civil infractions which did not rise to the level of misdemeanor or felony, they probably didn't count for much in the judge's sentencing decision.

    Wait, did he have previous DWIs? Otherwise, compared to traffic tickets, this would be a first time offense type of situation.

    I'm happy he even got 12. I someone pessimistically expected far less.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris516 View Post
    While I don't know Judge Miller's sentencing record in similar cases. In general(including Judge Miller), this is 'par for the course', when it comes to the sentences for killing a cyclist, premeditated or not. The life of a cyclist, means less to law enforcement, from the LEO, all the way to the judge. When the motorist that killed Ken Kifer got 23yrs., that is a rarity. 46 drunk driving citations, culminating in killing someone. Had a motorist been killed by Carlos Bertonatti's drunk driving, I can assure you that, MADD(Mothers Against Drunk Driving) would have been out in force, and he would have received a stiffer sentence than what he received. At the bare minimum(somehow), Carlos Bertonatti could have received only four years. So, Twelve years is not that much better.
    Oh, right, you're insane.

    Time for me to not feed a troll anymore.

  11. #86
    24-Speed Machine Chris516's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mconlonx View Post
    Oh, right, you're insane.

    Time for me to not feed a troll anymore.
    Maybe you trust the 'system' to not have a bias towards cyclists', but I don't.

  12. #87
    Bicikli Huszár sudo bike's Avatar
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    I'm more or less happy with 12 years. I'd be happier if we changed the system to prevent this rather than punitive reactions after the fact. But considering what we have to work with, 12 years isn't bad, really.
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  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudo bike View Post
    I'm more or less happy with 12 years. I'd be happier if we changed the system to prevent this rather than punitive reactions after the fact. But considering what we have to work with, 12 years isn't bad, really.
    I don't know what can be done to prevent hit-and-runs. Maybe install G-meters wired to the ignition?

    Living in a free society means relying on people to do the right thing. It's successful when most do, but we'll never see the day when all do.
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  14. #89
    Bicikli Huszár sudo bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
    I don't know what can be done to prevent hit-and-runs. Maybe install G-meters wired to the ignition?

    Living in a free society means relying on people to do the right thing. It's successful when most do, but we'll never see the day when all do.
    More stringent licensing requirements, including training for emergency situations. In Hungary, you must learn how to give first aid (and are actually required to... you can't be sued for attempting, because it is taken as a given that you are trained in very basic stuff). I think this would make it less likely for people to run, since they have at least a vague idea what to expect and what to do. Won't eliminate it, of course. (As an aside, basic knowledge of how a car actually works is required, along with very basic maintenance, like how to check that your brake fluid is OK, etc.)

    Of course, a lot would need to be done here to accomplish that. Training, for one. Laws specifically exempting people from liability if they utilize their training. More to the point, it is very difficult to impose more stringent driving standards when it is often the only practical method of transit... we can't really crack down on drivers as effectively as we might like until there are other ways for people to get to and from work, school, etc (i.e. public transit), without pretty big societal costs.
    "The bicycle is the noblest invention of mankind. I love the bicycle. I always have. I can think of no sincere, decent human being, male or female, young or old, saint or sinner, who can resist the bicycle."

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  15. #90
    Senior Member gcottay's Avatar
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    I hope the appeal works and Bertonatti gets a revised sentence. Assuming good time and other early release provisions, thirty-seven years would be about right.
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  16. #91
    Senior Member rydabent's Avatar
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    Wasnt it suposed to be handed down today? Anyone know what happened?

  17. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
    Wasnt it suposed to be handed down today? Anyone know what happened?
    Wasn't what supposed to happen? If you're talking about sentencing, you might take a minute to scroll back through the thread for a few days of posts.
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  18. #93
    24-Speed Machine Chris516's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gcottay View Post
    I hope the appeal works and Bertonatti gets a revised sentence. Assuming good time and other early release provisions, thirty-seven years would be about right.
    Good point, I agree.

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  20. #95
    Senior Member Essex's Avatar
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    Good decision. What I don't understand is that if Bertonatti accepts his responsibility that he/his family should abide by the decision set forth by the court and quit bawling in court ; interesting too is that his lawyer pronounces the word 'patently' differently and plays the crowd saying that he's angry. Of course, there is the appeal process.

  21. #96
    Cycle Year Round CB HI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
    4 year minimum with 2 years time served. Resonable chance he may only serve another 2 years.

    Sounds like the lawyer and family wanted a 4 year sentence with probably minimum of 1-2 years, meaning the guy would get out within a few days of the sentence plus time to process the paperwork.
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  22. #97
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    Remember folks, he wasn't sentenced for killing a cyclist, he was sentenced for driving drunk and killing a cyclist.

    Had he been sober, he might have walked away.

  23. #98
    Cycle Year Round CB HI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by genec View Post
    Remember folks, he wasn't sentenced for killing a cyclist, he was sentenced for driving drunk and killing a cyclist.

    Had he been sober, he might have walked away.
    Although not stated, a good part of the sentence likely was due to how he behaved with the police.
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  24. #99
    24-Speed Machine Chris516's Avatar
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    Below, Is what has happened since his sentence was handed down, along with where he is incarcerated.

    477 11/07/2013
    D C A ORDER FOR EXTENTION OF TIME TRANSCRIPTS EXTENDED UP TO & INCLUDING 12/30/2013 #3D13-2535
    476 10/29/2013
    STATEMENT OF JUDICIAL ACTS AND DESIGNATIONS TO CRT REPORTER
    475 10/03/2013
    APPELLATE COURT CASE NUMBER DCA/#3D13-2535
    473 10/03/2013
    NOTICE OF APPEAL TRANSMITTED TO DCA
    474 10/03/2013
    RECORD ON APPEAL DUE DATE - 11/20/2013
    472 10/02/2013 028851/00073
    NOTICE OF APPEAL J&S/ PUBLIC DEFENDER
    471 09/25/2013
    ORDER: ORDER OF INSOLVENCY AND APPOINTMENT OF COUNSEL
    470 09/25/2013
    APPELLANT ATTY PDEF/PUBLIC DEFENDER APPOINTMENT, AS
    467 09/19/2013
    TRANSCRIPT OF COURT HEARING SEPTEMBER 9, 2013
    465 09/19/2013
    REPORT RE: APPEAL SET FOR 09/25/2013 AT 08:45
    469 09/18/2013
    COMMITMENT ISSUED

    http://www.dc.state.fl.us/ActiveInma...onID=799478390

    Looking at his inmate photo, he looks like pure evil.
    Last edited by Chris516; 11-28-13 at 12:25 AM.

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