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-   -   A man on the MUP, carrying a big stick... (http://www.bikeforums.net/advocacy-safety/887399-man-mup-carrying-big-stick.html)

dynodonn 05-05-13 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kalliergo (Post 15590447)

It seems to me that the proper reaction to that cone in the middle of the BL would be to stop briefly and explain to the yard sale folks that it would be more effective and safer to put it on the lane line. Then, move it for them.

Been there, did that. While crossing this same street on my return trip, looking several blocks down at the yard sale location, cone was back in the bike lane. I carried on to my next destination.

kalliergo 05-05-13 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dynodonn (Post 15590478)
Been there, did that. While crossing this same street on my return trip, looking several blocks down at the yard sale location, cone was back in the bike lane. I carried on to my next destination.

OK. Clueless humans. Remember: By definition, half of them have below-average intelligence.

Still, a traffic cone in the bike lane is hardly a big deal. [However, full confession: I might have ridden back past the yard sale and taken the offending cone with me on the second pass. ;)]

FBinNY 05-05-13 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dynodonn (Post 15590465)
This isn't a case of someone inadvertently stepping out into a bike lane, this is was a deliberate and misguided thought on someone's part, with their knowing full well what they were doing.

Illegally block a traffic lane used by motor vehicles, and expect some legal repercussions, illegally block a bike lane or cycling infrastructure, and one can expect a public service announcement.

I guess that's the core of the difference between us. What you see as an intentional personal affront, I see as someone who probably hadn't given any thought to the possible consequences.

What you see is an inadequate government response, I see as a rational and logical attempt to resolve a problem through public education.

It was said of Mussolini that at least he got the trains to run on time. I feel that may be true, but at what cost. I'd rather accept some of the chaos and disorder that free society involves, you OTOH may feel differently.

dynodonn 05-05-13 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kalliergo (Post 15590519)
OK. Clueless humans. Remember: By definition, half of them have below-average intelligence.

Still, a traffic cone in the bike lane is hardly a big deal. [However, full confession: I might have ridden back past the yard sale and taken the offending cone with me on the second pass. ;)]


You are correct, the traffic cone was not a "big deal", and could be easily circumvented. Again, this type of action clearly goes to show the lack of respect that a number in the general public have towards cyclists and cycling infrastructure. I wouldn't call these individuals as "clueless", since they obviously knew what they could and could not get away with.

dynodonn 05-05-13 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FBinNY (Post 15590538)
I guess that's the core of the difference between us. What you see as an intentional personal affront, I see as someone who probably hadn't given any thought to the possible consequences.

What you see is an inadequate government response, I see as a rational and logical attempt to resolve a problem through public education.

It was said of Mussolini that at least he got the trains to run on time. I feel that may be true, but at what cost. I'd rather accept some of the chaos and disorder that free society involves, you OTOH may feel differently.


What I see is one standard for motorized transportation, and another for non motorized. Golden rule: he who has the gold rules, with motorists and property owners being considered to have the gold, and the cyclists are seen by many in the public realm as "freeloaders", relying on others' generosity. Many public servants are not willing to bite the hand that feeds them, and tend to tread softly.

FBinNY 05-05-13 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dynodonn (Post 15590576)
What I see is one standard for motorized transportation, and another for non motorized. Golden rule: he who has the gold rules, with motorists and property owners being considered to have the gold, and the cyclists are seen by many in the public realm as "freeloaders", relying on others' generosity. Many public servants are not willing to bite the hand that feeds them, and tend to tread softly.

You see a double standard, I see an unhappy, frustrated, put upon and paranoid individual (based on the posts only). Thecity has provided bike lanes, and is making an effort to educate the public about keeping them clear, yet you feel that they are ignoring cyclists' needs.

Maybe they should equip a bicycle with RPGs, and send it down the lane daily blasting all those cans out of the way until folks get the idea.

It's your sense of entitlement, and victimization, which was the very reason for my post. I was careful to note it was an "if the shoe fits..." post, and see that apparently the shoe does fit.

dynodonn 05-05-13 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FBinNY (Post 15590616)
You see a double standard, I see an unhappy, frustrated, put upon and paranoid individual (based on the posts only).

Maybe they should equip a bicycle with RPGs, and send it down the lane daily blasting all those cans out of the way until folks get the idea.

It's your sense of entitlement, and victimization, which was the very reason for my post. I was careful to note it was an "if the shoe fits..." post, and see that apparently the shoe does fit.


I see your post as part of the problem in why a number in the general public will treat cycling infrastructure the way that the do. Your belittlement of cyclists who call out others in the general public in their callous,and at times, illegal treatment of cycling infrastructure does not help address the situation either. Basically what you're saying is be a "good little cyclist" and keep my mouth shut because there are worst things in life to contend with. I didn't get this far in life not knowing when to hold 'em and when to fold 'em.

FBinNY 05-05-13 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dynodonn (Post 15590653)
I see your post as part of the problem in why a number in the general public will treat cycling infrastructure the way that the do. Your belittlement of cyclists who call out others in the general public in their callous,and at times, illegal treatment of cycling infrastructure does not help address the situation either. Basically what you're saying is be a "good little cyclist" and keep my mouth shut because there are worst things in life to contend with. I didn't get this far in life not knowing when to hold 'em and when to fold 'em.

I say again, if the shoe fits....

Obviously we disagree, but that's what forums are about. At this point with so little in the pot, I'll just fold 'em.

dynodonn 05-05-13 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FBinNY (Post 15590668)
I say again, if the shoe fits....

Obviously we disagree, but that's what forums are about. At this point with so little in the pot, I'll just fold 'em.



We definitely disagree, and I've learned that you would be a terrible shoe cobbler.

FBinNY 05-05-13 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dynodonn (Post 15590693)
We definitely disagree, and I've learned that you would be a terrible shoe cobbler.

Probably true. OTOH- I don't go through life as if wearing shoes that are pinching my feet.

dynodonn 05-05-13 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FBinNY (Post 15590701)
Probably true. OTOH- I don't go through life as if wearing shoes that pinch.

I wouldn't either, since I'd tell the shoe maker that they are too tight.

whitecat 05-06-13 04:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoustonGal (Post 15579717)
Discuss.

I like that passive authorative thing going on with those statements.

Lest not forget,

Discuss.

eja_ bottecchia 05-06-13 05:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kalliergo (Post 15590198)
1. "Yenta" general means something like "old gossip" -- just for future reference. Are groups of grandmothers pushing the strollers where you ride?

2. Could you share with us a map location or photograph of the situation you are describing? I'd like to see whether there's a better place for the stroller-pushers to walk and whether there's really any problem with your having to merge into the adjacent lane to pass them.

1. A yenta is not necessarily a babushka. A young, gossipy, meddlesome woman qualifies as a yenta. Look it up.

2. Westlake Village, CA. Plenty of nice, safe sidewalks for these yentas to use. They, however, prefer the wider bike lanes so they can walk 3 abreast and endlessly kibitz.

I am, however, such a mensch that I ride into traffic, risking the ire of drivers, without nary a cross word towards these kibbitzers.

Kai Winters 05-06-13 08:06 AM

I'd never use a MUP, etc. where I felt tense about the experience. Whether I was walking and worried about a..hats with their stupid freakin' dogs on a long leash, kids on bikes wandering all over the trail, joggers side by side taking over the trail for their "oh so important" jog and/or "riders" using the trail as a shortcut, personal TT course, etc.
Not a good way to enjoy in my opinion.

I only use MUPs with my kids...when they were little...and several times I had close calls with mtn bikers blasting down the trail...had words a few times but they were ignorant .ussies and rode off still ignorant.
I ride my road bike on the roads and my mtn bike on unpaved trails.

kalliergo 05-07-13 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eja_ bottecchia (Post 15592824)
1. A yenta is not necessarily a babushka. A young, gossipy, meddlesome woman qualifies as a yenta. Look it up.

Yeah, but not usually young ones. But, no matter. Yiddish idioms are slippery as can be.

Quote:

2. Westlake Village, CA. Plenty of nice, safe sidewalks for these yentas to use. They, however, prefer the wider bike lanes so they can walk 3 abreast and endlessly kibitz.
I see. Well, in case you didn't already know, it is illegal for them to walk or jog in bike lanes when sidewalks are present. California Drivers Handbook: page 25; CVC: 2196.

Quote:

I am, however, such a mensch that I ride into traffic, risking the ire of drivers, without nary a cross word towards these kibbitzers.
You are a mensch. These American Princesses of Uncertain Ethnicity should be grateful. No, actually they should get on the sidewalk. Consider sending their photos to the local traffic officers?

eja_ bottecchia 05-07-13 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kalliergo (Post 15597229)
Yeah, but not usually young ones. But, no matter. Yiddish idioms are slippery as can be.



I see. Well, in case you didn't already know, it is illegal for them to walk or jog in bike lanes when sidewalks are present. California Drivers Handbook: page 25; CVC: 2196.



You are a mensch. These American Princesses of Uncertain Ethnicity should be grateful. No, actually they should get on the sidewalk. Consider sending their photos to the local traffic officers?

All good advice...Westlake Village is not a very diverse place. There is not much uncertainty as far as these APUE are concerned. ;)

I-Like-To-Bike 05-07-13 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dynodonn (Post 15588295)
Anti cyclist mentality doesn't only pertain to just MUPs, today, a local family that was having a yard sale, decided to put an orange construction cone in the middle of a bike lane that I was traveling in, so as to slow down cyclists "speeding" past their house, and not hit any of their patrons.

Any video record of this specific "Anti cyclist mentality"?

spare_wheel 05-07-13 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buzzman (Post 15588846)
Am I the only one thinking this BUT is it possible there is an equal percentage of jerks on bikes, jerks in cars, jerks walking,...

jerkiness often is positively correlated with majority status (e.g. the larger the majority the jerkier the majority behaves to the minority).

kalliergo 05-07-13 05:04 PM

CVC: 21966

My cutting & pasting skills are excellent. If I could just see the results. . .

009jim 05-07-13 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buzzman (Post 15588846)
The guy walking with the stick is a paranoid, aggressive jerk looking for a paranoid, aggressive guy on a bike to mix it up with...
.

I'm not sure that "paranoid" is the correct word to use in this context. Paranoid is when you worry about something that won't happen. Seems more likely the guy walking with the stick is a thoughtful, aggressive jerk looking for a thoughtless, aggressive guy on a bike to mix it up with.

dynodonn 05-07-13 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike (Post 15599321)
Any video record of this specific "Anti cyclist mentality"?


Yep.

I-Like-To-Bike 05-09-13 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dynodonn (Post 15601093)
Yep.

Care to share?

dynodonn 05-10-13 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike (Post 15608319)
Care to share?

Nope.

As I've stated to you and others here on BF, my videos are for my own personal information gathering and viewing, and if I do happen to share the video, it'll be with law enforcement and/or legal council.

wrpeterson 05-13-13 11:22 AM

This is the scheme on my MUP - usually not followed by the clueless walkers...

http://o3.aolcdn.com/dims-shared/dim...af3bd89fdf4e09

I-Like-To-Bike 05-13-13 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wrpeterson (Post 15620548)
This is the scheme on my MUP - usually not followed by the clueless walkers...

http://o3.aolcdn.com/dims-shared/dim...af3bd89fdf4e09

Looks like the sign provides clueless instructions. Shouldn't the slower pedestrians stay to the right so they can be safely passed on the left by faster cyclists?


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