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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matariki View Post
    And because most laws are not prescient, this device was not anticipated and thus not banned by most state laws. Hey, I'm not texting, it's hands free, what's the problem, officer?
    Banning new technologies isn't an answer. If folks are going to make their cars into offices and living rooms, there's all likelihood, that this is actually safer than the alternatives.

    The issue is to get drivers to shift the balance back to attentive driving, and adjust what they do to conditions.
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  2. #27
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
    The issue is to get drivers to shift the balance back to attentive driving, and adjust what they do to conditions.
    Another possibilty is for the persistent worrywarts of A&S to stop (or at least get a handle on) their worrying about every dang "another thing" that shows up in the news, whether it be a survey, a bold prediction by some guy on the internet, a new shiny object, an astrology chart, or the phases of the moon.

  3. #28
    Senior Member kalliergo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
    Another possibilty is for the persistent worrywarts of A&S to stop (or at least get a handle on) their worrying about every dang "another thing" that shows up in the news, whether it be a survey, a bold prediction by some guy on the internet, a new shiny object, an astrology chart, or the phases of the moon.
    Just to check, what's your opinion on, say, texting while driving/cycling/walking along railroad tracks?

    If you can point us to a moonphase thread, that could be fun, too.
    "What if we fail to stop the erosion of cities by automobiles?. . . In that case, we Americans will hardly need to ponder a mystery that has troubled men for millennia: What is the purpose of life? For us, the answer will be clear, established and for all practical purposes indisputable: The purpose of life is to produce and consume automobiles."

    ~Jane Jacobs, The Death and Life of Great American Cities

  4. #29
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kalliergo View Post
    Just to check, what's your opinion on, say, texting while driving/cycling/walking along railroad tracks?
    I'm not worried about those who text while driving/walking along railroad tracks. Do you?

    Nor do I believe that everything that is a possible or conceivable risk, no matter how slight, necessitates the hysterical sky is falling attitude from the A&S Henny Pennys as demonstrated on this thread.

    OMG! A new gizmo is mentioned in the news which isn't even available; let all us fearful cyclists cry and moan Woe is Us! Just wait until Apple announces anything new. The howling from the Henny Pennys should reach a record level on A&S.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
    Another possibilty is for the persistent worrywarts of A&S to stop (or at least get a handle on) their worrying about every dang "another thing" that shows up in the news, whether it be a survey, a bold prediction by some guy on the internet, a new shiny object, an astrology chart, or the phases of the moon.
    Yes, the A&S forum seems to follow the news media in blowing everything up to disaster proportions. And we're blessed with politicians who feel they must address every short lived crisis with some kind of a ban or regulation.
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  6. #31
    Senior Member kalliergo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
    I'm not worried about those who text while driving/walking along railroad tracks. Do you?
    Cute. Actually, I do worry about those folks, but I doubt we'll be able to pass laws that help them.

    Google Glass is an almost perfect example of a gadget that ought to scare the hell out of everyone who uses the public ways. If you think that's silly, it can only be because you don't understand how distractions caused by similar, but less-intrusive, gadgets have increased risk for everyone.

    As for the new gizmo not being available, don't get too comfy. Google doesn't spend this kind of money and promote this level of hype on products that they kill. They'll be everywhere before you know it.

    As for the likelihood that the sky is falling, you might want to check with some folks at Oxford before you dismiss the possibility.

    A team of mathematicians, philosophers and scientists at Oxford University’s Future of Humanity Institute say there is ever-increasing evidence that the human race’s reliance on technology could, in fact, lead to its demise.


    The group has a forthcoming paper entitled “Existential Risk Prevention as Global Priority,” arguing that we face a real risk to our own existence. And not a slow demise in some distant, theoretical future. The end could come as soon as the next century.

    http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow...233025693.html

    The original paper is here:

    http://www.existential-risk.org/concept.html

    Don't be so sure Henny Penny is wrong.
    "What if we fail to stop the erosion of cities by automobiles?. . . In that case, we Americans will hardly need to ponder a mystery that has troubled men for millennia: What is the purpose of life? For us, the answer will be clear, established and for all practical purposes indisputable: The purpose of life is to produce and consume automobiles."

    ~Jane Jacobs, The Death and Life of Great American Cities

  7. #32
    Senior Member KD5NRH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by genec View Post
    Let's see, HUDs in jets and cars display information about the condition of the jet or car... slightly distracting, but probably no more so than gazing at the dashboard gauges.
    I drove a friend's car with a pretty complete HUD, and the nicest thing I found about it was having the speed and time right there on the windshield instead of having to look down at the tiny clock on the radio when approaching a school zone with only posted times instead of flashing lights. OTOH, it didn't seem nearly as handy until I got back in my own car and didn't have that stuff.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by kalliergo View Post
    The original paper is here:

    http://www.existential-risk.org/concept.html

    Don't be so sure Henny Penny is wrong.
    I'm not sure if Henny Penny is wrong, but Henny Penny is certainly completely incoherent.
    My speculation was that it applies to some degree in cycling, and I used the previous proof as my reasoning, but I can't prove how exactly it applies to it and to what degree. That, I have admitted, is speculation based on reasoning, but not at this point provable.

  9. #34
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by corvuscorvax View Post
    I'm not sure if Henny Penny is wrong, but Henny Penny is certainly completely incoherent.
    Henny Penny-like incoherence and/or hysteria is the name of the game for some so-called bicycling safety advocates/worrywarts on this list.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by KD5NRH View Post
    I drove a friend's car with a pretty complete HUD, and the nicest thing I found about it was having the speed and time right there on the windshield instead of having to look down at the tiny clock on the radio when approaching a school zone with only posted times instead of flashing lights. OTOH, it didn't seem nearly as handy until I got back in my own car and didn't have that stuff.
    Good point. That speedometer is so dang distracting, especially for drivers obsessed with never exceeding the posted limit, no matter what the prevailing traffic. Ban those distracting speedometers. Save our Henny Pennys.

    Better yet, ban those distracting posted speed limit signs and all the distracting trouble they cause for drivers who must devote 100% of every neuron, 100% of the time to the road ahead and can't spare the loss of attention to look at those distracting signs.

  11. #36
    Not quite there yet Matariki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
    I'm not worried about those who text while driving/walking along railroad tracks. Do you?

    Nor do I believe that everything that is a possible or conceivable risk, no matter how slight, necessitates the hysterical sky is falling attitude from the A&S Henny Pennys as demonstrated on this thread.

    OMG! A new gizmo is mentioned in the news which isn't even available; let all us fearful cyclists cry and moan Woe is Us! Just wait until Apple announces anything new. The howling from the Henny Pennys should reach a record level on A&S.
    Being concerned about potential negative impact of something is not hysteria, but overly-stated under-concerns may be.

  12. #37
    Seńior Member ItsJustMe's Avatar
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    http://www.entrepreneur.com/article/226604

    from the article:
    Getting directions. I thought turn-by-turn navigation would be more dangerous with Glass since I'd be driving with something in my field of vision. In practice, I took my eyes off the road much less than if I were using an external GPS or smartphone.
    Work: the 8 hours that separates bike rides.

  13. #38
    Senior Member alhedges's Avatar
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    I actually thought that this thread was going to be about bikers using Google Glasses to record bad motorists.

  14. #39
    Senior Member kalliergo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by corvuscorvax View Post
    I'm not sure if Henny Penny is wrong, but Henny Penny is certainly completely incoherent.
    Nah. It's just academic-speak. It actually makes sense once you've penetrated the jargon. If the jargon were too easy, riff-raff might get Oxbridge jobs.

    Seriously, it's fascinating work. Worth slogging through the deliberately-dense prose.
    "What if we fail to stop the erosion of cities by automobiles?. . . In that case, we Americans will hardly need to ponder a mystery that has troubled men for millennia: What is the purpose of life? For us, the answer will be clear, established and for all practical purposes indisputable: The purpose of life is to produce and consume automobiles."

    ~Jane Jacobs, The Death and Life of Great American Cities

  15. #40
    Senior Member kalliergo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ItsJustMe View Post
    I took my eyes off the road much less than if I were using an external GPS or smartphone.
    Gee, that's reassuring. How often did he take his brain off the road? Did he notice?
    "What if we fail to stop the erosion of cities by automobiles?. . . In that case, we Americans will hardly need to ponder a mystery that has troubled men for millennia: What is the purpose of life? For us, the answer will be clear, established and for all practical purposes indisputable: The purpose of life is to produce and consume automobiles."

    ~Jane Jacobs, The Death and Life of Great American Cities

  16. #41
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ItsJustMe View Post
    http://www.entrepreneur.com/article/226604

    from the article:Getting directions. I thought turn-by-turn navigation would be more dangerous with Glass since I'd be driving with something in my field of vision. In practice, I took my eyes off the road much less than if I were using an external GPS or smartphone.
    Immaterial to the Henny Pennys. It is something new and they don't understand and/or don't use, therefore it is baaaadd for cyclists.

  17. #42
    Lover of Old Chrome Moly Myosmith's Avatar
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    While I see potential problems with this new technology, what about it's benefits for cyclists. Instead of having to wear a constantly running camera on your helmet to hopefully capture assaults, harrassment, or the details of a collision, something like this could be built into your sunglasses so all you have to do is give a voice command or wink to photograph or record the incident. No more need for a big Garmin or smart phone clamped to your handlebars to track your route and riding data. How about a voice command to dial 911 and send your GPS location if you are injured or in danger?

    The current version looks a little clunky (but no worse than a GoPro stuck to the top of your helmet) but I'm sure in time the computer will be smaller and less conspicuous with an on-the-lense visual display.

    Sure there are going to be problems and some people will misuse the device, but people driving/riding with their head up their . . . is nothing new, long before texting, cell phones, etc. I saw drivers eating, putting on makeup (remember driver's side vanity mirrors?), reading paper maps or newspapers, trying to rewind messed up cassettes (you youngun's ask your folks), and whatever else they could think of. When the Walkman came out in the 1980s it was going to be the death of us all as skateboarders became the bane of humanity and roadway safety. As usual it isn't the technology that is the problem, it's the wetware running it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kalliergo View Post
    Seriously, it's fascinating work. Worth slogging through the deliberately-dense prose.
    People only write "deliberately dense" prose when they don't want people to actually understand what they're saying:

    A black hole, or a jar of sterile pebbles, is neither a democracy nor an efficient labor market, and we can see that this is so without having to make any normative judgment; yet there may be other objects that cannot be classified as instances or non-instances of these concepts without taking a stand (at least implicitly) on some normative issue.
    I mean, really. What the hell does this mean?

    And I absolutely love the figures:





    No units, but it does have cartoon lightning bolts. And a rocket! Very clearly, this is serious science.
    My speculation was that it applies to some degree in cycling, and I used the previous proof as my reasoning, but I can't prove how exactly it applies to it and to what degree. That, I have admitted, is speculation based on reasoning, but not at this point provable.

  19. #44
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Here is another bicycling thing for motorists to worry about if, not get hysterical (from laffing ):
    http://www.bicycling.com/bikes-gear/...ing-sunglasses

  20. #45
    Not quite there yet Matariki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
    Here is another bicycling thing for motorists to worry about if, not get hysterical (from laffing ):
    http://www.bicycling.com/bikes-gear/...ing-sunglasses
    400 bucks? Wonder if it will include street view Doppler radar - that would be great.

  21. #46
    Senior Member kalliergo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by corvuscorvax View Post

    A black hole, or a jar of sterile pebbles, is neither a democracy nor an efficient labor market, and we can see that this is so without having to make any normative judgment; yet there may be other objects that cannot be classified as instances or non-instances of these concepts without taking a stand (at least implicitly) on some normative issue.


    I mean, really. What the hell does this mean?
    Well, the core discipline of the work is philosophy. In that branch of academia, "normative" typically refers to value judgments or judgments about the way a thing or situation "should" be.

    So, building on that understanding, we can parse the quote and determine that it means no value judgment is required to determine that, e.g., a box of rocks, isn't a labor market (it self-evidently is not), but that such judgment might be required to determine whether or not (again, e.g.) prison chain gangs are elements of such a market.

    Et cetera.
    "What if we fail to stop the erosion of cities by automobiles?. . . In that case, we Americans will hardly need to ponder a mystery that has troubled men for millennia: What is the purpose of life? For us, the answer will be clear, established and for all practical purposes indisputable: The purpose of life is to produce and consume automobiles."

    ~Jane Jacobs, The Death and Life of Great American Cities

  22. #47
    Senior Member kalliergo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
    Here is another bicycling thing for motorists to worry about if, not get hysterical (from laffing ):
    http://www.bicycling.com/bikes-gear/...ing-sunglasses
    What we need to worry about is that humans aren't smart enough to stop themselves from building and using any technology they can contrive, regardless of the cost and consequences, and regardless of the benefits or lack thereof.

    That's how we ended up with a built environment that looks like this:

    6a0105364cdc73970c010536c9be59970b-800wi3.jpg
    "What if we fail to stop the erosion of cities by automobiles?. . . In that case, we Americans will hardly need to ponder a mystery that has troubled men for millennia: What is the purpose of life? For us, the answer will be clear, established and for all practical purposes indisputable: The purpose of life is to produce and consume automobiles."

    ~Jane Jacobs, The Death and Life of Great American Cities

  23. #48
    Bicikli Huszár sudo bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ItsJustMe View Post
    If it controls navigation, phone, radio/stereo and all the other crap that people currently look away from the road to do via HUD and voice commands, I don't see the problem.

    Military jets and some cars already use heads-up displays precisely because they allow you to see data without taking your eyes off the road/sky.

    People already screw with stuff while riding, and it kills a lot of people - mainly when they take their eyes off the road.
    This is actually an interesting point of view I hadn't considered.

    People are already doing everything from eating, to shaving, to checking GPS and radio, to surfing their laptops (saw that one last week). Getting more of that in front of them and controlled by things like voice commands might help. Obviously it isn't optimal, and we'd love to just have everyone sit and pay attention in silence while they drive, but I'd also like a million dollars. Working on the premise I'll get a million dollars isn't productive.

    Can't say for sure, but who knows? Someone needs to do a study now comparing Google Glass users with cellphone users with non-users. It wouldn't floor me if Google Glass users beat out smart phone users.
    "The bicycle is the noblest invention of mankind. I love the bicycle. I always have. I can think of no sincere, decent human being, male or female, young or old, saint or sinner, who can resist the bicycle."

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  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by kalliergo View Post
    What we need to worry about is that humans aren't smart enough to stop themselves from building and using any technology they can contrive, regardless of the cost and consequences, and regardless of the benefits or lack thereof.

    That's how we ended up with a built environment that looks like this:

    6a0105364cdc73970c010536c9be59970b-800wi3.jpg
    I think I'll be waiting for A WHILE for anyone to effectively counter this point. Good one, kal, right on the money.

  25. #50
    Mmm hm! agent pombero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kalliergo View Post
    Just to check, what's your opinion on, say, texting while driving/cycling/walking along railroad tracks?

    If you can point us to a moonphase thread, that could be fun, too.
    I-Like-To-Bike believes that using a cellphone while driving isn't dangerous. He ignores the fact I posted numerous studies showing that it is dangerous.
    ILTB is not a rational person to talk with about the dangerous of cellphones or other potential distractions while driving.

    Update: Repost of post #5 in the link above

    Atchley, P., Atwood, S., & Boulton, A. (January 01, 2011). The choice to text and drive in younger drivers: Behavior may shape attitude. Accident Analysis & Prevention, 43, 1, 134-142.

    --

    Atchley, P., Dressel, J., 2004. Conversation limits the functional field of view. Human Factors 46 (4), 664.

    Brown, I., Tickner, A., Simmonds, D., 1969. Interference between concurrent tasks of driving and telephoning. Journal of Applied Psychology 53 (5), 419– 424.

    Strayer, D., Drews, F., 2007. Cell-phone induced driver distraction. Current Directions in Psychological Science 16 (3), 128.

    Strayer, D., Drews, F., Johnston, W., 2003. Cell phone-induced failures of visual atten- tion during simulated driving. Journal of Experimental Psychology Applied 9 (1), 23–32.

    Hosking, S., Young, K., Regan, M., 2007. The effects of text messaging on young novice driver performance. In: Faulks, I.J., Regan, M., Stevenson, M., Brown, J., Porter, A., Irwin, J.D. (Eds.), Distracted driving. Australasian College of Road Safety, Sydney, NSW, pp. 155–187.

    Drews, F., Yazdani, H., Godfrey, C., Cooper, J., Strayer, D., City, S., 2009. Text messaging during simulated driving. Human Factors: The Journal of the Human Factors and Ergonomics Society 51 (5), 762–770.

    Crisler, M., Brooks, J., Ogle, J., Guirl, C., Alluri, P., Dixon, K., 2008. Effect of wireless communication and entertainment devices on simulated driving performance. Transportation Research Record: Journal of the Transportation Research Board 2069 (1), 48–54.

    Lee, S., Klauer, S., Olsen, E., Simons-Morton, B., Dingus, T., Ramsey, D., et al., 2008. Detection of road hazards by novice teen and experienced adult drivers. Trans- portation Research Record: Journal of the Transportation Research Board 2078 (1), 26–32.

    National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, 2008. National Motor Vehicle Crash Causation Survey (DOT HS 811 059). Retrieved December 12, 2009, from http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/811059.PDF.

    National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, 2008. National Motor Vehicle Crash Causation Survey (DOT HS 811 059). Retrieved December 12, 2009, from http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/811059.PDF.

    Thompson, K. R., Johnson, A. M., Emerson, J. L., Dawson, J. D., Boer, E. R., & Rizzo, M. (March 01, 2012). Distracted driving in elderly and middle-aged drivers. Accident Analysis and Prevention, 45, 711-717.

    ---

    Strayer, D.L., Drews, F.A., 2004. Profiles in driver distraction: effects of cell phone conversations on younger and older drivers. Hum. Factors 46 (4), 640–649.

    Strayer, D.L., Drews, F.A., 2007. Multitasking in the automobile. In: Kramer, A.F., Wiergamann, D.A., Kirlik, A. (Eds.), Attention: From Theory to Practice. Oxford University Press, New York, pp. 121–133.

    Watson, J.M., Strayer, D.L., 2010. Supertaskers: profiles in extraordinary multitasking ability. Psychon. B Rev. 17 (4), 479–485.

    Tractinsky, N., Ram, E. S., & Shinar, D. (January 01, 2013). To call or not to call—That is the question (while driving). Accident Analysis and Prevention.

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