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  1. #1
    ♋ ☮♂ ☭ ☯ -=(8)=-'s Avatar
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    Boston Globe - Safety & Crash article and stats


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    Here we go again with the clowns pushing MHL....

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    Thanks for posting. Interesting read.

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    Mmm hm! agent pombero's Avatar
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    $20 for running lights/signs? What an incredible deal. Pushing $175+ here.

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    With doorings accounting for 22% of all injury-accidents to cyclists, the city wants to create cycletracks, which often trap cyclists in a door zone? That's just nuts. Heaven forbid we do something about the scofflaw motorists who are actually killing and injuring people. Instead, let's start fining the cyclists and get them back into cars. Brilliant! And let's not forget that 18% of the incidents involved functionally blind motorists.

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    Mmm hm! agent pombero's Avatar
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    Almost 400 incidents have no listed cause. We'll have to wait for the real report and not the Globes interpretation of its results.

  7. #7
    Cycle Year Round CB HI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by B. Carfree View Post
    With doorings accounting for 22% of all injury-accidents to cyclists, the city wants to create cycletracks, which often trap cyclists in a door zone? That's just nuts. Heaven forbid we do something about the scofflaw motorists who are actually killing and injuring people. Instead, let's start fining the cyclists and get them back into cars. Brilliant! And let's not forget that 18% of the incidents involved functionally blind motorists.
    My impression was that the city just wanted to fine cyclist and pass a mandatory helmet law, while it was the Boston 'cycling advocates' that wanted the cycletracks.
    Land of the Free, Because of the Brave.

  8. #8
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    Of the 891 crashes in which causes were listed, cyclists ran a red light or rode through a stop sign before colliding with a car 12 percent of the time. Twenty-two percent of the collisions between cars and cyclists occurred when a vehicle door opened unexpectedly on a cyclist. Eighteen percent occurred when a motorist did not see a cyclist.
    Clearly the optimal solution is stopping cyclists from disobeying traffic devices! Wait, what?

    Quote Originally Posted by agent pombero View Post
    $20 for running lights/signs? What an incredible deal. Pushing $175+ here.
    Indeed, that would stop me from rolling stop signs 0% of the time!

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    Given the statistics cited it seems odd that the two incentives- ticketing cyclists and mandating helmets is the response. Only 12% of the accidents were due to bicyclists running lights. Not that it's not worth it to put some effort into cutting back on those but what about the other 88% of the causes. The larger share of which seem to have to do with motorist error.

    And that "didn't see the cyclist" accounted for so many of the accidents. Uh, how about stricter enforcement of distracted drivers? If there's anything I'd like to see cyclists cited for its riding without lights at night. However, bleeding heart liberal that I am I think that any fines accrued should be used to hand out free lights to those stopped at night without them- in other words, you just bought yourself a light, now use it! NO excuses! And I am NOT in favor of an MHL but a free or reduced cost helmet distribution program would be acceptable IMO.

    And how about ticketing drivers that buzz too close to cyclists or right hook- and almost should count. Or opening door on a cyclist, whether an accident occurs or not, should be punishable, if a cop sees it.

    For those who think the bike lanes increase a risk of doorings I'd love to see the statistics that support that assumption- especially as it relates to Boston. I've ridden there since 1980 and doorings have always been the number one danger on Mass Ave and Comm Ave long before a bike lane was even imagined on those roads. If anything, doorings on Comm Ave have dropped since the advent of bike lanes on that road.
    Last edited by buzzman; 05-16-13 at 09:26 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by buzzman View Post
    If there's anything I'd like to see cyclists cited for its riding without lights at night.
    Agreed. This really isn't something discretionary, it's something all cyclists should just automatically be doing.

  11. #11
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by buzzman View Post
    For those who think the bike lanes increase a risk of doorings I'd love to see the statistics that support that assumption- especially as it relates to Boston. I've ridden there since 1980 and doorings have always been the number one danger on Mass Ave and Comm Ave long before a bike lane was even imagined on those roads. If anything, doorings on Comm Ave have dropped since the advent of bike lanes on that road.
    My experience of riding in Philadelphia long before any bike lanes were painted tells me you are correct in your assumption.

    Where do the the door zone Henny Pennys think almost all cyclists ride on urban streets with both dense traffic and parking allowed, with or without bike lanes? Answer: on the same piece of door zone real estate and not where the VC gang dreams that cyclists should ride.
    Last edited by I-Like-To-Bike; 05-16-13 at 09:45 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
    My experience of riding in Philadelphia long before any bike lanes were painted tells me you are correct in your assumption.

    Where do the the door zone Henny Pennys think almost all cyclists ride on urban streets with both dense traffic and parking allowed, with or without bike lanes? Answer: on the same piece of door zone real estate and not where the VC gang dreams that cyclists should ride.

    It would be interesting to do an analysis of cyclist lane position in all these accidents where the driver "didn't see them". I have noticed that both here in NYC and in Boston that now that bike lanes have been in place for a few years there is a bit more expectation on the part of drivers that a bike may be in the lane. Still, NO guarantee, and never should it be, but still it may be an improvement over roads with no bike lanes where drivers just remain in their clueless states of distraction.

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    Quote Originally Posted by buzzman View Post
    Given the statistics cited it seems odd that the two incentives- ticketing cyclists and mandating helmets is the response. Only 12% of the accidents were due to bicyclists running lights. Not that it's not worth it to put some effort into cutting back on those but what about the other 88% of the causes. The larger share of which seem to have to do with motorist error.

    And that "didn't see the cyclist" accounted for so many of the accidents. Uh, how about stricter enforcement of distracted drivers? If there's anything I'd like to see cyclists cited for its riding without lights at night. However, bleeding heart liberal that I am I think that any fines accrued should be used to hand out free lights to those stopped at night without them- in other words, you just bought yourself a light, now use it! NO excuses! And I am NOT in favor of an MHL but a free or reduced cost helmet distribution program would be acceptable IMO.

    And how about ticketing drivers that buzz too close to cyclists or right hook- and almost should count. Or opening door on a cyclist, whether an accident occurs or not, should be punishable, if a cop sees it.

    For those who think the bike lanes increase a risk of doorings I'd love to see the statistics that support that assumption- especially as it relates to Boston. I've ridden there since 1980 and doorings have always been the number one danger on Mass Ave and Comm Ave long before a bike lane was even imagined on those roads. If anything, doorings on Comm Ave have dropped since the advent of bike lanes on that road.
    great post

  14. #14
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    The full report: http://tinyurl.com/afgd5dn

    I was one of many volunteers who inputted data for a few hours from Police Reports into the Pedestrian Bike Crash program. (the program was based on a pedestrian crash data system, so things like right and left hooks aren't able to be fully coded) Many of the reports were vague in how the crash occurred, and quite a few had no mention at all of how the crash occurred. The reports were in written form, no diagrams, with most proper nouns, including names, X'ed out.

    I was under the impression that the data only went through 2011 and not 2012 (the bike lanes on Mass Ave and the BU Bridge were installed in December of 2011). I'll have to read the report to find out more.

  15. #15
    Mmm hm! agent pombero's Avatar
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    So no real conclusions can be made about cyclists running those red lights. The report is a victim of poor record keeping and is therefore meaningless to draw any conclusions from, let alone make policy around it.

  16. #16
    Senior Member kalliergo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
    Where do the the door zone Henny Pennys think almost all cyclists ride on urban streets with both dense traffic and parking allowed, with or without bike lanes? Answer: on the same piece of door zone real estate and not where the VC gang dreams that cyclists should ride.
    What's the point here, ILTB? Are you in favor of riding in door zones, with or without paint?
    "What if we fail to stop the erosion of cities by automobiles?. . . In that case, we Americans will hardly need to ponder a mystery that has troubled men for millennia: What is the purpose of life? For us, the answer will be clear, established and for all practical purposes indisputable: The purpose of life is to produce and consume automobiles."

    ~Jane Jacobs, The Death and Life of Great American Cities

  17. #17
    Senior Member kalliergo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by agent pombero View Post
    So no real conclusions can be made about cyclists running those red lights. The report is a victim of poor record keeping and is therefore meaningless to draw any conclusions from, let alone make policy around it.
    Sure looks that way.
    "What if we fail to stop the erosion of cities by automobiles?. . . In that case, we Americans will hardly need to ponder a mystery that has troubled men for millennia: What is the purpose of life? For us, the answer will be clear, established and for all practical purposes indisputable: The purpose of life is to produce and consume automobiles."

    ~Jane Jacobs, The Death and Life of Great American Cities

  18. #18
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kalliergo View Post
    What's the point here, ILTB? Are you in favor of riding in door zones, with or without paint?
    Sometimes it is the better choice of several less than perfect options in urban areas with dense traffic, especially when the traffic lanes are narrow and motorized traffic moves briskly whenever possible. Or conversely when the traffic is harldy moving at all, the fast guys won't be so g-d fast when they are standing still "cycling in the lane," and will be tailgated at speed at all times when traffic does move.

    The A&S doomsayers who predict the imminent demise of anyone who dares to cycle in the dreaded door zone are whistling dixie to the great majority of cyclists who manage to handle this task without incident, day in and day out. The same doomsayers castigate painted lines that serve the purpose, if nothing else, to deter some motorists from riding too close to the zone where cyclists WILL be riding, despite what some A&S experts think is best for them.

  19. #19
    Cycle Year Round CB HI's Avatar
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    Between 2010 and 2012, the BPD was not reliably recording helmet usage. The BPD does take helmet use seriously, as evidenced, by way of example, by their distribution of hundreds of helmets per year. It is recommended that BPD begin collecting helmet data moving forward.
    So with NO reliable data, the city wants a mandatory helmet law.
    Land of the Free, Because of the Brave.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by B. Carfree View Post
    With doorings accounting for 22% of all injury-accidents to cyclists, the city wants to create cycletracks, which often trap cyclists in a door zone?
    I doubt the cycle tracks proposed would trap cyclists in a door zone. The couple that I've ridden around here (Boston) that have already been installed don't do that, even when they're between the parked cars and the sidewalk. The one I ride regularly has the parked cars, a cross-hatched sort of void area, then a very wide bike lane, then the sidewalk. And it's one way, so even when people are cycling next to each other or passing one another, there's still plenty of room to avoid the door zone. The rest of the cycle tracks I've seen around here aren't near parked cars at all, but take over some of the sidewalk real estate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by agent pombero View Post
    Almost 400 incidents have no listed cause. We'll have to wait for the real report and not the Globes interpretation of its results.
    The report is out, and the article is closely based on its results. There's a link to a .pdf of the report on the right hand side of the article.

  22. #22
    20+mph Commuter JoeyBike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
    The same doomsayers castigate painted lines that serve the purpose, if nothing else, to deter some motorists from riding too close to the zone where cyclists WILL be riding, despite what some A&S experts think is best for them.
    I never cared about painted bike lanes, until my city painted a few. While I find the painted lines could be a danger to novice cyclists who think they are somehow "safe" inside those lines, for me, I begrudgingly admit, on some roads, the lines help because motorists automatically center their vehicles between things. Before the painted lines cars and trucks "auto-centered" themselves between the left curb and the parked cars on their right. This behavior almost certainly forced cyclists to ride too close to the parked cars. Now with the painted bike lane, motorists center themselves farther to the left which gives a savvy bike-lane user juuuust enough space to NOT get doored if they ride far left in the bike lane. In just a short time our motorists (no smarter than any other city for sure) have respected the new lines, some in parked cars now "realize" bikes just might be using that space and are less likely to throw a door open in my face (I actually SEE them looking for me). Right hooks are still a problem but I also find SOME motorists more alert when crossing the bike lane while turning right. I used to get 100% hooked (every opportunity) before the lane and now it seems like 50% - or at least much less.

    So I have to admit that for a skilled, savvy, experienced cyclist some bike lanes can increase cyclist safety if used correctly with all the due caution of riding on the roadway.
    "For all we know his skills may be excellent, allowing him to ride like an idiot without actually being one." - FBinNY

  23. #23
    ---- buzzman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeyBike View Post
    I never cared about painted bike lanes, until my city painted a few. While I find the painted lines could be a danger to novice cyclists who think they are somehow "safe" inside those lines, for me, I begrudgingly admit, on some roads, the lines help because motorists automatically center their vehicles between things. Before the painted lines cars and trucks "auto-centered" themselves between the left curb and the parked cars on their right. This behavior almost certainly forced cyclists to ride too close to the parked cars. Now with the painted bike lane, motorists center themselves farther to the left which gives a savvy bike-lane user juuuust enough space to NOT get doored if they ride far left in the bike lane. In just a short time our motorists (no smarter than any other city for sure) have respected the new lines, some in parked cars now "realize" bikes just might be using that space and are less likely to throw a door open in my face (I actually SEE them looking for me). Right hooks are still a problem but I also find SOME motorists more alert when crossing the bike lane while turning right. I used to get 100% hooked (every opportunity) before the lane and now it seems like 50% - or at least much less.

    So I have to admit that for a skilled, savvy, experienced cyclist some bike lanes can increase cyclist safety if used correctly with all the due caution of riding on the roadway.
    I wholeheartedly agree with this post. Very similar experience for me as well.

    I liken the bike lane stripe to cutting a sheet of plywood length wise. Try doing the cut without drawing a line and most likely you'll drift slightly off course. Now do it with the line. Same thing happens with the bike lane stripe. The bike rider and the driver tends to hold their line better. And the presence of the lane and white silhouette of a bike rider is a constant remind that bikes may be present on the road.

  24. #24
    Senior Member Keith99's Avatar
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    So how do the rest of you read this:

    And twelve percent occurred when a cyclist rode into oncoming traffic.
    Perish any man who suspects that these men either did or suffered anything unseemly.

  25. #25
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith99 View Post
    So how do the rest of you read this:
    I read it as : "And twelve percent occurred when a cyclist rode into oncoming traffic."

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