Raging driver throws milkshake, grabs rider, runs her over, flees scene
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Also, unrelated to the above quoted post, some are saying that the cyclists passed the guy's vehicle against the light running a red light. Although what I know of cyclists behaving badly I certainly consider that possible. I also know a little bit about motorists behaving badly and I've had more then one stop on a green light and position their vehicle either to try to block me or to turn into me "waiting in ambush" for me to try to pass them when they were stopped at a green light. Do we know that the light was red and this guy stopped for the red light and the cyclists didn't, do we know that he stopped for a green light trying to block them from proceeding or waiting in ambush, or do we not know which of the two it was ??? Some facts clarification would help.
The cyclists rode around the truck as it was stopped at an intersection. When the light changed and the truck passed the cyclists again, a milk shake came flying out of one of the vehicle's windows, slopping onto one of the riders.
To me it reads as that he was at the intersection and they passed him. When the light changed he then caught and in the process of passing them threw a milkshake at them which hit one of the cyclists.
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^ Yup, sounds like they did run the light, something that usually twists most motorists the wrong way (seeing a cyclists run a red). Considering this guy allegedly already had a deep seated hatred of cyclists and being an angry violent person in general I'm sure it must have twisted him.
Which of course does not justify felony criminal assault.
Which of course does not justify felony criminal assault.
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This is from the article:
The cyclists rode around the truck as it was stopped at an intersection. When the light changed and the truck passed the cyclists again, a milk shake came flying out of one of the vehicle's windows, slopping onto one of the riders.
To me it reads as that he was at the intersection and they passed him. When the light changed he then caught and in the process of passing them threw a milkshake at them which hit one of the cyclists.
The cyclists rode around the truck as it was stopped at an intersection. When the light changed and the truck passed the cyclists again, a milk shake came flying out of one of the vehicle's windows, slopping onto one of the riders.
To me it reads as that he was at the intersection and they passed him. When the light changed he then caught and in the process of passing them threw a milkshake at them which hit one of the cyclists.
^ Yup, sounds like they did run the light, something that usually twists most motorists the wrong way (seeing a cyclists run a red). Considering this guy allegedly already had a deep seated hatred of cyclists and being an angry violent person in general I'm sure it must have twisted him.
Which of course does not justify felony criminal assault.
Which of course does not justify felony criminal assault.
Oakland isn't Podunk. There's a fair amount of activity even at 1:00 A.M.
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In Oakland a milkshake is probably the best thing a motorist can use as a projectile.
That place isnt a murder hub for no reason.
If you are out riding at 1 am you best keep to yourself or expect something bad to happen to you.
That place isnt a murder hub for no reason.
If you are out riding at 1 am you best keep to yourself or expect something bad to happen to you.
#155
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I don't believe the bikers "started it", but they had at least TWO clear moments to back off and avoid being dragged further down - yet they, as a group or due to poor 'leadership' by one of them, boldly dug themselves a deeper hole and one of them paid a very dear price.
The fact that ANOTHER cyclist in a SEPARATE incident on a DIFFERENT day had a problem with this a-hole driver does not absolve this group of 4 from being called stupid.
The fact that ANOTHER cyclist in a SEPARATE incident on a DIFFERENT day had a problem with this a-hole driver does not absolve this group of 4 from being called stupid.
"A problem" is an understatement on your part. "The problem" as I see it is in the one commenting cyclist not reporting his incident to law enforcement, since it might have been the trigger to get law enforcement to take more serious action against this motorist at an earlier stage.
I wouldn't call the cyclists "stupid" maybe "foolish" in their decision making in this incident, but we've all made foolish decisions at points during our lifetime. Their decision to address this issue may send this motorist to prison for a very long time due to his prior criminal history, possibly saving a number of other cyclists considerable grief.
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Riders catch up to truck at traffic light and think or say:
"Let's stay behind this guy, he seems like a jerk. I think we should just let him go."
/situation, everyone goes home.
Makes the rest of what you say moot.
I don't even think they would have to back off.. if someone starts attacking you, you have every right to defend yourself. Oh wait, never mind, that's "escalating things".. don't want to do anything that might upset your attacker. just relax and take it. it'll be over soon
this dude could run over half of you guys and you'd be like "sorry bro, totally my bad!"
this dude could run over half of you guys and you'd be like "sorry bro, totally my bad!"
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"A problem" is an understatement on your part. "The problem" as I see it is in the one commenting cyclist not reporting his incident to law enforcement, since it might have been the trigger to get law enforcement to take more serious action against this motorist at an earlier stage.
I wouldn't call the cyclists "stupid" maybe "foolish" in their decision making in this incident, but we've all made foolish decisions at points during our lifetime. Their decision to address this issue may send this motorist to prison for a very long time due to his prior criminal history, possibly saving a number of other cyclists considerable grief.
The fact that this driver is now going to be off the road for a while is a co-incidence and a bonus.
#158
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Oakland has one of the worst police departments in the nation.. better to take your chances with this dude than OPD
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If they had just not been riding their bikes at all, everyone goes home. Or a million other things. But SOMEONE ELSE still chose to attack them.
We can reduce this arguement ad absurdum.. every cyclist makes a choice to ride on the road. if they get hit, well that's their fault. If they were just not riding their bike, they could have gone home safely! Everyone who dies from a gun shot, well that's their fault. If they had just been wearing body armor, they could have gone home safely! Everyone who's dying in the tornadoes chose to live where they know tornadoes occur... totally their fault!
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But, reporting this sort of incident to OPD is unlikely in the extreme to produce any action from law enforcement. The department, we have recently learned, has one part-time investigator to follow up on 10,000 (that's right) burglaries. It has failed to meet its obligations under a consent decree administered by a federal judge and the court has appointed outside supervisors to oversee operations. Harrassment of cyclists just isn't going to make it to the top of the priority list anytime soon.
That said, this incident happened downtown, at 1 a.m. It's a city, not Smallville USA, but it's not really particularly dangerous to be there, unless you run into wackos like this truck driver and confront him rather than avoid him (and are dumb enough to break his window instead of his head when things do escalate).
A lot of poor schmucks who didn't deserve it have been rolled over by our badly-written three strikes law, but it might work well in this case. The driver sounds like an excellent candidate for 25-to-life.
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"What if we fail to stop the erosion of cities by automobiles?. . . In that case, we Americans will hardly need to ponder a mystery that has troubled men for millennia: What is the purpose of life? For us, the answer will be clear, established and for all practical purposes indisputable: The purpose of life is to produce and consume automobiles."
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#161
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This is from the article:
The cyclists rode around the truck as it was stopped at an intersection. When the light changed and the truck passed the cyclists again, a milk shake came flying out of one of the vehicle's windows, slopping onto one of the riders.
To me it reads as that he was at the intersection and they passed him. When the light changed he then caught and in the process of passing them threw a milkshake at them which hit one of the cyclists.
The cyclists rode around the truck as it was stopped at an intersection. When the light changed and the truck passed the cyclists again, a milk shake came flying out of one of the vehicle's windows, slopping onto one of the riders.
To me it reads as that he was at the intersection and they passed him. When the light changed he then caught and in the process of passing them threw a milkshake at them which hit one of the cyclists.
You guys insist on thinking the worst of these cyclist. They are not the felons, the crazy motorist is the one with a felony record.
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Think the worst - No. Prepared to realize mistakes might have been made by the cyclists as well - Yes.
Prepared to say that what mistakes the cyclists might have made if we think the worst based on the reports at hand deserved to be attacked with near lethal force - ABSOLUTELY NOT.
Prepared to say that what mistakes the cyclists might have made if we think the worst based on the reports at hand deserved to be attacked with near lethal force - ABSOLUTELY NOT.
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That is exactly how motorist describe cyclist filtering to the front of the line at an intersection. Why do you guys think there was NO other traffic in Oakland of all places when this happened. Once the cyclist were at the front of the line, of course the raging idiot had to catch up to them again after the light turned green.
You guys insist on thinking the worst of these cyclist. They are not the felons, the crazy motorist is the one with a felony record.
You guys insist on thinking the worst of these cyclist. They are not the felons, the crazy motorist is the one with a felony record.
And there will be witnesses, almost certainly.
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~Jane Jacobs, The Death and Life of Great American Cities
"What if we fail to stop the erosion of cities by automobiles?. . . In that case, we Americans will hardly need to ponder a mystery that has troubled men for millennia: What is the purpose of life? For us, the answer will be clear, established and for all practical purposes indisputable: The purpose of life is to produce and consume automobiles."
~Jane Jacobs, The Death and Life of Great American Cities
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#166
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Except that a prior incident with this violent felon involved him chasing the cyclist up onto the sidewalk with his truck and also exiting it and chasing the cyclist with a tire iron. Why in the world would you think that he would give up the chase just because his quarry is behind him? Come on, arm chair quarterback, you've got the benefit of hindsight. Use it.
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Except that a prior incident with this violent felon involved him chasing the cyclist up onto the sidewalk with his truck and also exiting it and chasing the cyclist with a tire iron. Why in the world would you think that he would give up the chase just because his quarry is behind him? Come on, arm chair quarterback, you've got the benefit of hindsight. Use it.
The funniest guy, kept slowing and stopping but could not get at me because of the rush hour traffic. I just waved at him. When he started driving again, he would turn his head all the way around, but he could not hold his line and repeatedly ran into the curb. He finally got so pissed, he gunned it, went a full block and a half ahead and turned into a gas station to wait for me. Too bad for him, my turn off was only half a block ahead and I made my turn while he could not see me. I still wonder how long he waited for me to ride by.
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Except that a prior incident with this violent felon involved him chasing the cyclist up onto the sidewalk with his truck and also exiting it and chasing the cyclist with a tire iron. Why in the world would you think that he would give up the chase just because his quarry is behind him? Come on, arm chair quarterback, you've got the benefit of hindsight. Use it.
This driver wasn't going around all day, everyday, seeking out cyclists and chasing them. He'd have been caught a lot earlier if he did. Being an a-hole who cuts in on cyclists sometimes is just that for most motorists, however this driver would go further...
This driver was triggered into more than cutting in by the actions (however legal or innocent) and reactions of cyclists.
Remove the trigger, then there is no 'chase'.
These 4 riders would not have known about the previous incident, nor anything else about this driver. They made their decisions, this drivers trigger was pulled, and here we are today.
Can I be sure that the driver would have just kept driving after that first traffic light if the riders stayed behind him? Of course not. However, without something to set of his 'hair trigger' perhaps it might have been OK. The incident with the tyre iron you mention had a 'trigger' for our driver too, and once triggered he wasn't going to stop.
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Maybe I've been riding too long (or have read too many horror stories in here!). I think about this stuff and adjust what I'm doing accordingly. Boldly going about your day without much though to the repercussions is plain dumb - however YMMV depending on your experience, training, age and so on.
#170
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I don't want to say you are being obtuse, but you really are.
This driver wasn't going around all day, everyday, seeking out cyclists and chasing them. He'd have been caught a lot earlier if he did. Being an a-hole who cuts in on cyclists sometimes is just that for most motorists, however this driver would go further...
This driver was triggered into more than cutting in by the actions (however legal or innocent) and reactions of cyclists.
Remove the trigger, then there is no 'chase'.
These 4 riders would not have known about the previous incident, nor anything else about this driver. They made their decisions, this drivers trigger was pulled, and here we are today.
Can I be sure that the driver would have just kept driving after that first traffic light if the riders stayed behind him? Of course not. However, without something to set of his 'hair trigger' perhaps it might have been OK. The incident with the tyre iron you mention had a 'trigger' for our driver too, and once triggered he wasn't going to stop.
This driver wasn't going around all day, everyday, seeking out cyclists and chasing them. He'd have been caught a lot earlier if he did. Being an a-hole who cuts in on cyclists sometimes is just that for most motorists, however this driver would go further...
This driver was triggered into more than cutting in by the actions (however legal or innocent) and reactions of cyclists.
Remove the trigger, then there is no 'chase'.
These 4 riders would not have known about the previous incident, nor anything else about this driver. They made their decisions, this drivers trigger was pulled, and here we are today.
Can I be sure that the driver would have just kept driving after that first traffic light if the riders stayed behind him? Of course not. However, without something to set of his 'hair trigger' perhaps it might have been OK. The incident with the tyre iron you mention had a 'trigger' for our driver too, and once triggered he wasn't going to stop.
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Yeah, I have had at least six incidents that immediately come to mind where I have slowed/stopped to stay behind idiot motorist. One tried to back up into me. One wanted to stop and back into me but another motorist was in his way. One went around the block to get back behind me. Two made right turns, then a U-turn to get back behind me.
The funniest guy, kept slowing and stopping but could not get at me because of the rush hour traffic. I just waved at him. When he started driving again, he would turn his head all the way around, but he could not hold his line and repeatedly ran into the curb. He finally got so pissed, he gunned it, went a full block and a half ahead and turned into a gas station to wait for me. Too bad for him, my turn off was only half a block ahead and I made my turn while he could not see me. I still wonder how long he waited for me to ride by.
The funniest guy, kept slowing and stopping but could not get at me because of the rush hour traffic. I just waved at him. When he started driving again, he would turn his head all the way around, but he could not hold his line and repeatedly ran into the curb. He finally got so pissed, he gunned it, went a full block and a half ahead and turned into a gas station to wait for me. Too bad for him, my turn off was only half a block ahead and I made my turn while he could not see me. I still wonder how long he waited for me to ride by.
#172
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Really CB? Really? That is bottom of the barrel even for some folks around here.
We've been talking about the actions/reactions of cyclists that might make their situations worse, especially if they don't know how the driver might react.
#173
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If this guy will **** a child, do you seriously think he needs a trigger to assault adults?
You are just too hell bent on blaming the cyclist.
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What is really low is for some cyclist to claim other cyclist had to of triggered this felon into committing his crimes while not apply the same criteria for the same felon to his other crimes. Wake up, he is a violent felon, he does not need a trigger from his victims to commit his felonies.
If this guy will **** a child, do you seriously think he needs a trigger to assault adults?
You are just too hell bent on blaming the cyclist.
If this guy will **** a child, do you seriously think he needs a trigger to assault adults?
You are just too hell bent on blaming the cyclist.
I don't know, maybe I'm just not hell bent on being an absolute apologist for these cyclists - especially after you agree with my suggestions and admit that you've retreated/waited/let things pass to avoid trouble with motorists (with varied levels of success!). Although you are probably more experienced and aware than these cyclists in this case.
This particular driver *may* not have needed a specific or large trigger, but you're mixing things up here.
Are all child ******* bad and violent drivers? Nope. Plenty of cases to demonstrate otherwise.
Are all bad and violent drivers child *******? Nope. Some folks are just crappy drivers or just plain violent.
The link is more likely to be coincidental in this case, so a poor argument.
Will we ever know if these cyclists could have made a different choice and this situation would have passed? No.
But I'm pretty sure that there is a lot consensus above that they certainly did things that we agree didn't help - and that is not 'blaming the victim'.
#175
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I don't know, maybe I'm just not hell bent on being an absolute apologist for these cyclists - especially after you agree with my suggestions and admit that you've retreated/waited/let things pass to avoid trouble with motorists (with varied levels of success!). Although you are probably more experienced and aware than these cyclists in this case.
They started off trying to piss me off and get me to flip the bird at them. That is a win for these bully nuts. I just flip it on them and smile the rest of the commute.
To this OP, we have a significant amount of information on this felon, pretending that information is not available and trying to talk about motorist in general is dishonest to the discussion. Now lets talk about this specific violent felon.
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