Raging driver throws milkshake, grabs rider, runs her over, flees scene
05-19-13, 06:36 PM
#101
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Gender: M
Age: 52
Height: 6 ft. 3 in.
Weight: 270
Offense/Statute: SODOMY WITH PERSON UNDER 14 YEARS OR WITH FORCE
Offense/Statute: ASSAULT WITH INTENT TO COMMIT A SPECIFIED SEX OFFENSE
05-19-13, 06:52 PM
#102
Cycle Year Round
All possible CB, none proven. Nope not channeling Hillary, trying to get some value out of a tragedy where opinions outnumber facts. Your earlier posts indicated you know what the circumstances of the incident were, and what the witnesses knew. You are clearly as bound by your opinion as I am mine. But the germane question in my mind is, what can the cyclist do to avoid this type of outcome in the face of an a person who has discarded the rule of law in favor of vigilant justice.
Did you even read what this guy did to the cyclist who only tried to get away? Does not seem like you did.
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Last edited by CB HI; 05-19-13 at 06:59 PM.
05-19-13, 07:01 PM
#103
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Your response "might" make sense IF AND ONLY IF, the POS driver had attacked the rider who broke the mirror. Instead, however, he picked on a woman.
Coward!
Reyes could be my daughter, or yours, or someone's wife or gf or even mother.
05-19-13, 07:02 PM
#104
Senior Member
Indeed I did read the report. Perhaps I misused the term vigilante justice, I had posited that the driver, who I acknowledged was a known violent felon, was behaving in way consistent with gang style justice, by attacking the members of a rival group. it is unknown if the victim rider was passing the stopped vehicle, or if the vehicle was moving when the assault occurred. Details are vague. I am glad you know the cyclist was trying to get away, her testimony was that she does not recall any details. So the question remains, what is the best way to prevent similar occurrences? So your take on this is that there is no way to avoid the rare person bent on violence?
05-19-13, 07:06 PM
#105
Cycle Year Round
Indeed I did read the report. Perhaps I misused the term vigilante justice, I had posited that the driver, who I acknowledged was a known violent felon, was behaving in way consistent with gang style justice, by attacking the members of a rival group. it is unknown if the victim rider was passing the stopped vehicle, or if the vehicle was moving when the assault occurred. Details are vague. I am glad you know the cyclist was trying to get away, her testimony was that she does not recall any details. So the question remains, what is the best way to prevent similar occurrences? So your take on this is that there is no way to avoid the rare person bent on violence?
https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...1#post15641126
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05-19-13, 07:22 PM
#106
Senior Member
Once again, is your stance is there is simply no way to avoid the occasional violent person? Since I am certain that this guy had experienced some cyclists over the years that he did not assault, there was some thing that set him off. So the conclusion would be that there was some kind of precipitating event, maybe internal to the felon, or external. I wish to avoid such situations, so I am seeking to discuss how to avoid such felons, not the myriad of possible things that may or may not have happened, within the gaps in statements of the witnesses, or even the pretend internet witnesses.
So CB, what is your idea on avoiding becoming a victim of this type of psychopath? Or is your contribution limited to condensation and insults?
So CB, what is your idea on avoiding becoming a victim of this type of psychopath? Or is your contribution limited to condensation and insults?
05-19-13, 07:43 PM
#107
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Having followed most of the discussion I am still drawn to the opinion that this group of cyclists were idiots who were one half of the escalation that then got out of control when the driver turned out to be a violent a-hole.
They could have stayed behind the truck after the first incident - yet they chose to ride around it on both sides, putting themselves in danger and almost certainly antagonising the driver.
They could have stopped or turned off after the milkshake, but they chose to ride by the stopped truck AGAIN (this time with the driver out) leading to a physical altercation and the smashing of the window. If the driver wasn't going psycho before, a smashed window was going to guarantee it - AND YOU'VE JUST RIDDEN CLOSE ENOUGH FOR HIM TO GRAB ONE OF YOU. Nice work Einstein.
The driver is going to go to jail - and deserve it - but I hope that the 3 riders who were not injured learn a few things for the future. Don't get tangled up with idiot drivers. Let them go on their way (and report them later, film them on your GoPro, whatever), and don't do macho **** that gets another in your group hurt.
These cyclists (or the key alpha male) didn't learn the lesson about poking wild animals with sticks. That never ends well.
They could have stayed behind the truck after the first incident - yet they chose to ride around it on both sides, putting themselves in danger and almost certainly antagonising the driver.
They could have stopped or turned off after the milkshake, but they chose to ride by the stopped truck AGAIN (this time with the driver out) leading to a physical altercation and the smashing of the window. If the driver wasn't going psycho before, a smashed window was going to guarantee it - AND YOU'VE JUST RIDDEN CLOSE ENOUGH FOR HIM TO GRAB ONE OF YOU. Nice work Einstein.
The driver is going to go to jail - and deserve it - but I hope that the 3 riders who were not injured learn a few things for the future. Don't get tangled up with idiot drivers. Let them go on their way (and report them later, film them on your GoPro, whatever), and don't do macho **** that gets another in your group hurt.
These cyclists (or the key alpha male) didn't learn the lesson about poking wild animals with sticks. That never ends well.
05-19-13, 07:48 PM
#108
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Once again, is your stance is there is simply no way to avoid the occasional violent person? Since I am certain that this guy had experienced some cyclists over the years that he did not assault, there was some thing that set him off. So the conclusion would be that there was some kind of precipitating event, maybe internal to the felon, or external. I wish to avoid such situations, so I am seeking to discuss how to avoid such felons, not the myriad of possible things that may or may not have happened, within the gaps in statements of the witnesses, or even the pretend internet witnesses.
So CB, what is your idea on avoiding becoming a victim of this type of psychopath? Or is your contribution limited to condensation and insults?
So CB, what is your idea on avoiding becoming a victim of this type of psychopath? Or is your contribution limited to condensation and insults?
marg1nal Guest
To everyone saying "the bikers started it" you were not there and you don't know this man. He is hostile, aggressive, unreasonable and violent. He's also 6'3" and 270lbs. I had a run-in with this same guy, and so did a person I work with, on a completely separate occasion. Neither of us did anything to him, and he even told me that he "hates bicyclists." When he attacked me, we had not had any kind of incident leading up to the altercation. I was simply riding alone when he suddenly brushed me off the road with his truck, then pulled over, got out, and started yelling at me and chasing me. Then he took a metal bar from his truck and started waving it around, kicked my rim in with his big boots when I tried to get away, and then got back in the truck and drove up onto the sidewalk in a crazy attempt to hit me. I was lucky to escape with just a trashed rim. I found out who he was from a neighbor who witnessed this. I looked up his criminal history, and it is long and bad.
I know people tend to identify with their own "group" and many drivers are annoyed by bicyclists, but remember many bicyclists are also annoyed by drivers, and drivers are inside several tons of metal that can kill a person easily. People need to put aside being "right" for a second and think about the ecological mess we're in. People who are helping everyone by bicycling instead of driving deserve a safe place to ride, where cars are not constantly cutting them off and taking up all the space. Bicyclists pay taxes too, and their money goes to fund a transportation infrastructure that largely ignores their needs in favor of auto sprawl. How about a couple streets where cars aren't allowed, or bike lanes with fences so cars can't just drive into them or double park in them whenever they feel like it. Think about the big picture. Take out your anger on some bankers or some politicians, please just give bicyclists room to breathe.
2 hours ago
To everyone saying "the bikers started it" you were not there and you don't know this man. He is hostile, aggressive, unreasonable and violent. He's also 6'3" and 270lbs. I had a run-in with this same guy, and so did a person I work with, on a completely separate occasion. Neither of us did anything to him, and he even told me that he "hates bicyclists." When he attacked me, we had not had any kind of incident leading up to the altercation. I was simply riding alone when he suddenly brushed me off the road with his truck, then pulled over, got out, and started yelling at me and chasing me. Then he took a metal bar from his truck and started waving it around, kicked my rim in with his big boots when I tried to get away, and then got back in the truck and drove up onto the sidewalk in a crazy attempt to hit me. I was lucky to escape with just a trashed rim. I found out who he was from a neighbor who witnessed this. I looked up his criminal history, and it is long and bad.
I know people tend to identify with their own "group" and many drivers are annoyed by bicyclists, but remember many bicyclists are also annoyed by drivers, and drivers are inside several tons of metal that can kill a person easily. People need to put aside being "right" for a second and think about the ecological mess we're in. People who are helping everyone by bicycling instead of driving deserve a safe place to ride, where cars are not constantly cutting them off and taking up all the space. Bicyclists pay taxes too, and their money goes to fund a transportation infrastructure that largely ignores their needs in favor of auto sprawl. How about a couple streets where cars aren't allowed, or bike lanes with fences so cars can't just drive into them or double park in them whenever they feel like it. Think about the big picture. Take out your anger on some bankers or some politicians, please just give bicyclists room to breathe.
2 hours ago
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05-19-13, 08:08 PM
#110
Senior Member
Oakland is a Cesspool ... let's try to help raise funds to support Eli Reyes!
https://www.gofundme.com/2t3p3w
https://www.gofundme.com/2t3p3w
05-19-13, 08:33 PM
#112
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Stop blaming the cyclist for our justice system allowing such a violent felon to roam our streets.
The solution was that this guy should have still been in prison.
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Last edited by CB HI; 05-19-13 at 08:36 PM.
05-19-13, 08:43 PM
#113
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So... how much **** are you supposed to take before standing up for yourself is valid, and isn't just labelled as escalation? Just curious...
05-19-13, 08:47 PM
#114
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05-19-13, 08:51 PM
#116
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There is no dispute from my end this guy should not be roaming the streets. But the discussion remains of what can a cyclist do to avoid being dragged or assaulted, and was there any behavior the group of cyclists could have taken to avoid the end result. The answer may well be "not a damn thing except to be thankful that the incidence of such antisocial behavior is infrequent", but there may be other answers which hinge on behaviors which set off said antisocial behavior. Concealed carry weapons and shooting the aggressor may be a solution but I find that one distasteful. One thing I can conclude, is that I would not be passing a car that just had a window broken out by a passing cyclist.
At least I am trying understand the situation and to decipher if there are any generally effective strategies. Whats your reason for this exchange CB?
Oh, it was condescension I meant, as if you didn't know.
At least I am trying understand the situation and to decipher if there are any generally effective strategies. Whats your reason for this exchange CB?
Oh, it was condescension I meant, as if you didn't know.
05-19-13, 08:53 PM
#117
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Oakland is a Cesspool ... let's try to help raise funds to support Eli Reyes!
https://www.gofundme.com/2t3p3w
https://www.gofundme.com/2t3p3w
05-19-13, 09:04 PM
#119
Cycle Year Round
There is no dispute from my end this guy should not be roaming the streets. But the discussion remains of what can a cyclist do to avoid being dragged or assaulted, and was there any behavior the group of cyclists could have taken to avoid the end result. The answer may well be "not a damn thing except to be thankful that the incidence of such antisocial behavior is infrequent", but there may be other answers which hinge on behaviors which set off said antisocial behavior. ...
At least I am trying understand the situation and to decipher if there are any generally effective strategies. Whats your reason for this exchange CB?
At least I am trying understand the situation and to decipher if there are any generally effective strategies. Whats your reason for this exchange CB?
Now you have been given several solutions to this situation by several posters, so stop claiming that no one is providing any solutions.
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05-19-13, 09:14 PM
#120
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No I have not blamed the cyclist. I am not sure if I blame the guy who hit the window, I think that if he was going to hit something it should have been the driver. ANd I was not asking the other posters about their solution, I was asking you CB. You have answered (finally) that you think carrying a weapon is the appropriate solution to this type of event. Since this type of event is exceptionally rare, I will keep on riding, and maybe be more aware of those I ride with, and always be aware of escape routes.
I have no issue with what you choose to discuss, have at it.
I have no issue with what you choose to discuss, have at it.
05-19-13, 10:06 PM
#121
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You were second in line to blame the cyclist. And continued to blame the cyclist throughout the thread.
---------------------------------------------------------
Actually you only mentioned what you thought was ‘germane’ in post 100 and did not ask a question.
Yet I did note in post 102 that this guy was not involved in vigilante justice. If you were able to understand the comments of the other cyclist assaulted in an unrelated incident (referenced in my post 102), you should have understood that you cannot prevent an unprovoked attack from a felon like this guy. My post 105 linked you directly to the other cyclist assault report.
I later continued to give you other ideas that you did not like, but you finally settled on the dislike of the gun the most. Yet you seem to fail to understand that the gun will not prevent the initial attack in the OP case, it only ends it.
It still seems the best solution for some, such as yourself, is to give in and simply not bicycle at all. At least then, you avoid all cycling related conflict before it even happens.
Turbo you make a point. I had assumed that the cyclists were a group riding together, and that's not even clear. I think that in gang think dominated areas, that retaliation against members of opposing gangs is common, thus in it would be a social norm for the driver to attack a rival group member for retaliation if the original offender was not accessible, and if the driver behavior was influenced by social norms that are present in gang dominated areas. Therefore, my conclusion is that retaliation may take either the form of individual or retaliation against a group, especially in the instance of racial, or social groupings. So be careful who you ride with, you may be held to account for their actions, especially on the street. That said, I in know way do I feel that the actions of the driver was acceptable or justifiable, but I am quite pragmatic about street violence, and personally seek to avoid confrontational situations with unknown people, especially at 1:00 AM.
Ahh, just messing with ya. You and I are on the same page about fitting in and avoiding unwinnable conflict with motor vehicles.Smashing a window out of a truck at 1 AM is foolish, to be kind. There is a time to stand on your rights and a time to let life just move on.
I later continued to give you other ideas that you did not like, but you finally settled on the dislike of the gun the most. Yet you seem to fail to understand that the gun will not prevent the initial attack in the OP case, it only ends it.
It still seems the best solution for some, such as yourself, is to give in and simply not bicycle at all. At least then, you avoid all cycling related conflict before it even happens.
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05-19-13, 10:36 PM
#123
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Which solution did you choose, the quite cycling or run and hide whenever a motorist gets near, since the other choices do not prevent the assault in the first place. Enquiring minds want to know.
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05-19-13, 10:45 PM
#124
Senior Member
I'll just take my chances, and continue to ride just as I have, do the best that I can. I will not carry a gun as that does nothing to prevent assault, I will not ride with other riders who would hit a vehicle with a ulock. think I will be "quite" cycling for quite some time.
05-19-13, 10:57 PM
#125
Cycle Year Round
I'll just take my chances, and continue to ride just as I have, do the best that I can. I will not carry a gun as that does nothing to prevent assault, I will not ride with other riders who would hit a vehicle with a ulock. think I will be "quite" cycling for quite some time.
Pointing to a video camera can have a similar affect.
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