I'm here to help.
More quotes from Heine in the comments:
The main issue here is that poorly designed “protected” bike lanes, cycle tracks, etc., are being installed, designed and planned all over North America.
Its completely bizarre how few of the cycle tracks in the USA are on high speed arterials or transportation choke points.
And Mikael Colville-Andersen responds in the comments by posting a link to his off target and misleading screed:
Cycling’s Secret Sect continues to push their quirky, unproved theory. Always amusing.
And Heine responds:
Amen again, brother.Quote:
Many of us cover significant distances by bike, and as long as places like Copenhagen push all cyclists onto segregated paths, they aren’t the paradise that many make them out to be. The fact that in Europe, cyclists who are riding considerable distances for transportation basically don’t exist should give us pause.
More on the type of "protection" that Heine likes:
I agree that a cycling specific trail is a joy to use. High conflict bike sidewalks, not so much. And this is why the USA should look to Munich, not Copenhagen for direction.Quote:
I am not opposed to “protected” bike facilities, if they are truly protected. The Myrtle Edwards Waterfront Trail is a great example – a few miles of separate trails for cyclists and pedestrians, with only one (minor) intersection.
More quotes from the comments.
I am not advocating road design for cars. The advocates of segregated facilities advocate that – give the roads over to cars. That is the vehicular equivalent of apartheid. I advocate road design that considers the needs of all users.
The misinformation is mostly on the side of those advocating for segregated paths. They still claim that this is safe, despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary – even from places like the Copenhagen.
Hurst. 100% VC is not a good idea in DC.
Another Jan Heine quote from the comments:
My concern is that cycle tracks are becoming the preferred choice in the U.S. everywhere, not just in the (relatively few) locations where they are appropriate.
Sharrows are gonna win on performance and cost.
The Seattle bike ghetto in this thread and the idiotic separated lane in PDX in another thread today are certainly impressive examples of "unclear on the concept," though.
Definitely. In PDX both the new Williams project and the 50s project (both funded) are Munichista bike lanes:Quote:
Has anyone not noticed that there hasn't been any serious new money for projects like cycletrack construction in some time?
This is reminiscent of Officer Obie's smackdown of the litterers, his
"twenty seven eight by ten glossy photographs with circles, arrows, and a paragraph on the back of each one explaining what each one was to be used as evidence against us"
'citations, statistics, and diagrams' oh afeard.
The best infrastructure depends upon the roads, traffic, and the intended users. One I find interesting in my town is we have a section of on street bike lane with a parallel MUP about ten feet away. The MUP gets the kids and slower riders while the faster riders use the bike lane.
A physically separated bike path AND a green concrete bike lane. Now that is physically separated infrastructure I approve of.
Well, It's clear Jan Heine is into histrionics to frame his 'argument'. He's shouting copenhagenista along with the rest of the crazies on the group W bench.Quote:
Originally Posted by JAN HEINE
thinking there's going to be cycletracks 'everywhere' is quite the contrived thing for Jan to argue against. In any city, cycle tracks will serve the purpose as the backbone of a bike transportation network.
New York City and Vancouver, BC are examples of urban downtowns that have added a network of cycletracks, that serve as main arteries on their bikeway network in crowded metropolitan North American downtowns.
Fearmongering there's going to be cycle tracks everywhere is a dupe ruse.
nothing's going to prevent Jan Heine from riding the shared lane bikeway on nearby Aurora ave N instead of the N Seattle cycle track.
Except he's hesitant to do so. Jan Heine considers that shared lane bikeway on nearby Aurora Ave "unsafe and unfit for bicycling". IMO - what a hypocrite - Jan Heine comes off sounding like the kind of rider that might NEED a cycletrack or two! Heaven forbid Jan would have to ride his bike to someplace on Bel-Red road over in Bellevue. How would Jan ride to the Performance Bike shop on the Eastside? :eek:
And dont' forget, Jan Heine supports expanding the cycle track network in Seattle. Problem is, given Jan's hesitancy to ride the shared lane bikeway Aurora Ave, his guidance on what and where other bike facilities are going to be needed might not be representative of what the rest of the public needs to facilitate travelling by bike.
Originally Posted by Steve0257
to drive transportation policy in order to promote bicycling and rider safety.Quote:
Originally Posted by bekologist
What kind of infrastructure best serves the most cyclists?
The tired refrain of the quixotic and contrived cycling rights movement that "every lane is a bike lane" has lost any semblance of resonance in smartly designed US cities in the 21st century.
Like buzzman mentions, the conversation has rolled inexorably past the 1980's. Except, seemingly, at the halls of bike forums, where acerbic throwbacks to another era continue to insist what's best is simply tossing the cyclists under the wheels of the bus.
NO ONE is making those decisions. The 'one size fits all bike sidewalks everywhere' advocate simply doesn't exist in real life.Quote:
Originally Posted by steve0257
The only place that advocacy happens is in the minds of the fearmongers and obstructionists of better bike planning. These hysteric individuals post in like minded usergroups of the equally deluded elsewhere on the internets.
interesting you find 'amusing' a graphic that dispels those phantoms that haunt you of copenhagenistas lurking at every corner turning streets into bike sidewalks.Quote:
What an amusing diagram.
That is a fine facility, indeed. I used to ride it often on my way to wine/beer tasting in woodinville. I have always believed that bridges and narrow choke points with high-speed differential are areas that require some form of separation. My question focused on city streets. This is where there is an emerging battle between the Munichista and Copenhagenista vision. I can't wait for Jan's next installment where he covers the Munich cycling revolution.
I want to know how Jan Heine rides to the Denny's on aurora, Performance bike on the eastside, or anywhere on Bel-Red road if he thinks the shared lane bikeway on aurora Ave is unfit and unsafe for cycling. :eek:
Is Jan Heine forced to take his car because Aurora Ave and Bel-Red road are unfit for cycling? Now, THAT'S being driven off the roads, wouldn't you think?