lostarchitect 

I'm here to help.

spare_wheel

More quotes from Heine in the comments:

Amen.

Its completely bizarre how few of the cycle tracks in the USA are on high speed arterials or transportation choke points.



And Mikael Colville-Andersen responds in the comments by posting a link to his off target and misleading screed:


And Heine responds:

Amen again, brother.

More on the type of "protection" that Heine likes:

I agree that a cycling specific trail is a joy to use. High conflict bike sidewalks, not so much. And this is why the USA should look to Munich, not Copenhagen for direction.

spare_wheel

More quotes from the comments.

Heine:

buzzman

I suppose if I wanted to address Jan Heine's blog post I would do so directly on his blog, which I may very well do. My responses here are to this thread and the posts contained herein.

dynaryder

Totally OT,but this is why I prefer Hurst. 100% VC is not a good idea in DC.

spare_wheel

I guess you missed the link out and quotes from Jan Heine's blog...

spare_wheel

Another Jan Heine quote from the comments:

Relatively few.

spare_wheel

I'm genuinely curious how your cycling improved after reading Hurst.

kalliergo 

Very few. OTOH, I'm not too worried. Has anyone not noticed that there hasn't been any serious new money for projects like cycletrack construction in some time?

Sharrows are gonna win on performance and cost.

The Seattle bike ghetto in this thread and the idiotic separated lane in PDX in another thread today are certainly impressive examples of "unclear on the concept," though.

spare_wheel

Definitely. In PDX both the new Williams project and the 50s project (both funded) are Munichista bike lanes:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/bikeportland/7244258628/

kalliergo 

Not terrible at all, at first glance. But, how do I turn right onto Tillamook, and why won't the drivers think I should stay in the bike lane?

Edit: Just looked at Google street view. Why does it need a bike lane at all?

spare_wheel

They put it on the left side due to bus-bike conflict. Apparently, reconfiguring the bus stops was too expensive/controversial...meh. Since Williams is the epitome of every day critical mass its definitely going to be educational for motorists.

Bekologist

This is reminiscent of Officer Obie's smackdown of the litterers, his

"twenty seven eight by ten glossy photographs with circles, arrows, and a paragraph on the back of each one explaining what each one was to be used as evidence against us"


'citations, statistics, and diagrams' oh afeard.

steve0257

The problem comes when the decision is made that one particular type of infrastructure is the correct one for all situations.

The best infrastructure depends upon the roads, traffic, and the intended users. One I find interesting in my town is we have a section of on street bike lane with a parallel MUP about ten feet away. The MUP gets the kids and slower riders while the faster riders use the bike lane.

kalliergo 

Ah. And that's probably the justification for the painted lines, to begin with. OK.

But cyclist right turns still look unattractive.

buzzman

Yep. Can't argue with you there.

That's what I meant when I posted-

spare_wheel

I agree its a flawed facility but its definitely an example of physically separated infrastructure getting voted down. Progress, IMO.

spare_wheel

Check out the sellwood bridge bike facilites:


A physically separated bike path AND a green concrete bike lane. Now that is physically separated infrastructure I approve of.

jputnam

Interstate 90, bidirectional facility separated from 60mph freeway traffic with a concrete wall. Great place for this sort of facility, more than a mile between intersections, excellent sight distances, no pedestrian destinations or bus stops.


I-90 Bridge, Lake Washington by joshua_putnam, on Flickr


DSIR2747_swapRB by joshua_putnam, on Flickr

Bekologist

Well, It's clear Jan Heine is into histrionics to frame his 'argument'. He's shouting copenhagenista along with the rest of the crazies on the group W bench.

thinking there's going to be cycletracks 'everywhere' is quite the contrived thing for Jan to argue against. In any city, cycle tracks will serve the purpose as the backbone of a bike transportation network.

New York City and Vancouver, BC are examples of urban downtowns that have added a network of cycletracks, that serve as main arteries on their bikeway network in crowded metropolitan North American downtowns.

Fearmongering there's going to be cycle tracks everywhere is a dupe ruse.

nothing's going to prevent Jan Heine from riding the shared lane bikeway on nearby Aurora ave N instead of the N Seattle cycle track.

Except he's hesitant to do so. Jan Heine considers that shared lane bikeway on nearby Aurora Ave "unsafe and unfit for bicycling". IMO - what a hypocrite - Jan Heine comes off sounding like the kind of rider that might NEED a cycletrack or two! Heaven forbid Jan would have to ride his bike to someplace on Bel-Red road over in Bellevue. How would Jan ride to the Performance Bike shop on the Eastside?

And dont' forget, Jan Heine supports expanding the cycle track network in Seattle. Problem is, given Jan's hesitancy to ride the shared lane bikeway Aurora Ave, his guidance on what and where other bike facilities are going to be needed might not be representative of what the rest of the public needs to facilitate travelling by bike.

Bekologist

Yep. That's what I meant when I consistently post about

to drive transportation policy in order to promote bicycling and rider safety.

What kind of infrastructure best serves the most cyclists?

The tired refrain of the quixotic and contrived cycling rights movement that "every lane is a bike lane" has lost any semblance of resonance in smartly designed US cities in the 21st century.

Like buzzman mentions, the conversation has rolled inexorably past the 1980's. Except, seemingly, at the halls of bike forums, where acerbic throwbacks to another era continue to insist what's best is simply tossing the cyclists under the wheels of the bus.

NO ONE is making those decisions. The 'one size fits all bike sidewalks everywhere' advocate simply doesn't exist in real life.

The only place that advocacy happens is in the minds of the fearmongers and obstructionists of better bike planning. These hysteric individuals post in like minded usergroups of the equally deluded elsewhere on the internets.

Bekologist

you think that infographic is the definitive danish design manual?

interesting you find 'amusing' a graphic that dispels those phantoms that haunt you of copenhagenistas lurking at every corner turning streets into bike sidewalks.

spare_wheel

That is a fine facility, indeed. I used to ride it often on my way to wine/beer tasting in woodinville. I have always believed that bridges and narrow choke points with high-speed differential are areas that require some form of separation. My question focused on city streets. This is where there is an emerging battle between the Munichista and Copenhagenista vision. I can't wait for Jan's next installment where he covers the Munich cycling revolution.

spare_wheel

:drink:

Bekologist

what contrived prattle. In your mind and among the conspiracy theorists that think nazis lurk at every corner, taking away cyclists right to get around town on a bicycle.

I want to know how Jan Heine rides to the Denny's on aurora, Performance bike on the eastside, or anywhere on Bel-Red road if he thinks the shared lane bikeway on aurora Ave is unfit and unsafe for cycling.

Is Jan Heine forced to take his car because Aurora Ave and Bel-Red road are unfit for cycling? Now, THAT'S being driven off the roads, wouldn't you think?