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  1. #26
    20+mph Commuter JoeyBike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dynodonn View Post
    I'm really not following Joey's account on his one lane road with a bike lane. Is this road designated a one way or has it the capability to have two way traffic?
    OK...I captured some frames from old videos. Unfortunately, the incident was out of the video frame today.
    The top frame shows the "Before the bike lane" view with a rider almost precisely where I nearly got struck today by a truck that was approaching from behind a van where that white SUV is sitting. Maybe there is enough room for a small car to squeeze between the SUV and the parked van, but I have never witnessed it at this location.

    The bottom image shows the same spot as it appears now. Notice the parking space is gone - plenty of space for any vehicle to pass on the right and almost looks designed to make the maneuver easy. The bike lane goes from solid to dashed at this spot too which in my opinion encourages cars to cross it and pass on the right.

    BTW...there is no right turn possibility at that light. A hard right puts us in a pedestrian mall.

    Your takes on this folks?

    "For all we know his skills may be excellent, allowing him to ride like an idiot without actually being one." - FBinNY

  2. #27
    Transportation Cyclist turbo1889's Avatar
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    My take on it would be that I would "Formation Fly" through that intersection. Which is what I call it when I'm riding to the right of the main flow of traffic out of the main traffic lane and when approaching a dangerous intersection where I know there is danger of cars pulling to the right and side-swiping me I pick a gap between the rear of one car and the front of the other and position myself directly to the right of that gap with the front of my front tire a foot or two behind the rear bumper of the forward car and hold that position either slowing down or putting in a burst of speed "mashing on the pedals" to maintain that position so I don't have a car pull into me and I've got the gap between two cars on my left rather then a car on my left while traveling through the approach to the intersection and at least the first half of the intersection itself.

    That is how I would handle that intersection, assuming of course that the speed limit on that road is not 25mph or less and that it is a higher speed road for heavy vehicle traffic in the main lane then that. If it is a 25mph road or less then I'm in the main traffic lane dead center regardless of whether there is a bike lane or not and pedaling strong and hard to maintain my speed above 20mph unless I have to slow down because of those big metal cans blocking up the lane in front of me and impeding traffic (me).

  3. #28
    20+mph Commuter JoeyBike's Avatar
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    Same bike lane at rush hour (one block west of my near-death experience today).

    Just in case you think I am the only idiot on the road here.

    "For all we know his skills may be excellent, allowing him to ride like an idiot without actually being one." - FBinNY

  4. #29
    20+mph Commuter JoeyBike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by turbo1889 View Post
    My take on it would be that I would "Formation Fly" through that intersection. Which is what I call it when I'm riding to the right of the main flow of traffic out of the main traffic lane and when approaching a dangerous intersection where I know there is danger of cars pulling to the right and side-swiping me I pick a gap between the rear of one car and the front of the other and position myself directly to the right of that gap with the front of my front tire a foot or two behind the rear bumper of the forward car and hold that position either slowing down or putting in a burst of speed "mashing on the pedals" to maintain that position so I don't have a car pull into me and I've got the gap between two cars on my left rather then a car on my left while traveling through the approach to the intersection and at least the first half of the intersection itself.
    Exactly how I USUALLY do it. The front vehicle (a van) was totally stopped at a green waiting for a break in traffic. The offending vehicle was "virtually" stopped behind the van, then after slowing to less than 5 mph (in my estimation) must have looked up from their phone to see the light green and the wide open space to the right. From nearly a stop he mashed the accelerator and cut the wheel to the bike lane - just like a hit-man would if he was TRYING to kill me.

    The street was wet so I was traveling cautiously at around 15 mph.
    "For all we know his skills may be excellent, allowing him to ride like an idiot without actually being one." - FBinNY

  5. #30
    Transportation Cyclist turbo1889's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeyBike View Post
    Same bike lane at rush hour (one block west of my near-death experience today).

    Just in case you think I am the only idiot on the road here.



    Personally, myself, the only reason I would put myself in the position where you were at the instant when that photo was taken is if all those vehicles were waiting for a red light and stopped and boxed in by each other so they weren't moving and could easily and quickly turn into me. I only filter up or pass on the right in the bike lane or on the shoulder edge when the cars are stopped and "boxed in" by each other so their movements are restricted. If that is a moving image I and all those vehicles are moving not stopped I wouldn't be where you are, I would be in the main lane holding a full car width of space even if it slowed me down with all those darn cans impeding traffic (me). Better to be slowed down and have some breathing room. I learned along time ago with a few close calls to never filter up or pass on the right even when in a dedicated cycle lane or riding to the right of the white line on the shoulder except when the cars are stopped and all "boxing each other in". Just not worth it unless they are boxed in tight and can't make a move on me.

  6. #31
    20+mph Commuter JoeyBike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by turbo1889 View Post
    Personally, myself, the only reason I would put myself in the position where you were at the instant when that photo was taken is if all those vehicles were waiting for a red light and stopped and boxed in by each other so they weren't moving...
    Those cars were stopped at a light.
    "For all we know his skills may be excellent, allowing him to ride like an idiot without actually being one." - FBinNY

  7. #32
    24-Speed Machine Chris516's Avatar
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    It is obvious from the pictures, that no one in Montana, gives a darn about the bike lanes.

  8. #33
    totally louche Bekologist's Avatar
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    Joey - if you are on a street with parking, cars will frequently use a gap in parked cars to swing wide around a left turner.

    regular, commonplace traffic maneuver. motorists pilot their vehicle thru whatever slot provides faster forward progress.

    Motorists pulling around turning left turners stopped in the road is a commonplace, everyday traffic maneuver.

    It's not the bikelane, dude. It's a clear case of "negligent driver + poor rider awareness."

    For an aspiring traffic jammer, i'm surprised a basic squeeze scenario threw ya for a loop!!~
    "Evidence, anecdote and methodology all support planning for roadway bike traffic."

  9. #34
    Transportation Cyclist turbo1889's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeyBike View Post
    Those cars were stopped at a light.
    Not a problem then in my opinion. I could see the brake lights on most of the cars were on but I wasn't sure because I couldn't see what the light color was. It is after all the bike lane.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris516 View Post
    It is obvious from the pictures, that no one in Montana, gives a darn about the bike lanes.
    Although I can't be sure I seriously doubt that picture was taken in MT - that is Joey's picture not mine.

  10. #35
    20+mph Commuter JoeyBike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bekologist View Post
    Motorists pulling around turning left turners stopped in the road is a commonplace, everyday traffic maneuver.
    I never denied your statement. Why the bold type?

    It's not the bikelane, dude. It's a clear case of "negligent driver + poor rider awareness."
    OK...I am still with you on that. It takes two to make an accident. The percentage of blame might not be even, but I accept 100% of the blame for whatever happens to me the instant I throw my leg over a bicycle in a world populated by idiots piloting large armored vehicles. But the NEW bike lane has changed that intersection dynamics.

    For an aspiring traffic jammer, i'm surprised a basic squeeze scenario threw ya for a loop!!~
    Because I was very nearly (inches away) maimed doing something ordinary on my bike. I figured there were some good A&S lessons to be learned from my experience here:

    1. Running a flashing front light in the daytime has been awesome for me and might be something to think about for others.

    2. Even a savvy commuter with 30+ years of experience in rush hour city traffic can still get himself killed under very ordinary circumstances.

    3. A painted bike lane, in this case, made one intersection in my city more dangerous in my opinion.

    4. Roads are always changing. What was a no-brainer last week might be a death trap this week.

    5. Missing one detail in traffic might kill you.
    "For all we know his skills may be excellent, allowing him to ride like an idiot without actually being one." - FBinNY

  11. #36
    Senior Member dynodonn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeyBike View Post
    Your takes on this folks?
    Ok, it's basically a two way street with a bike lane on one side. Would I be correct in assuming that the motorist that nearly hit you was going in the same direction as you?

  12. #37
    20+mph Commuter JoeyBike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dynodonn View Post
    Ok, it's basically a two way street with a bike lane on one side. Would I be correct in assuming that the motorist that nearly hit you was going in the same direction as you?
    Yes. He rolled up behind the vehicle at the light ahead (the white SUV in my photos was actually a white van during the incident) as if he were waiting in the queue to make a left turn as well. He rolled nearly up to the van at the light and very nearly stopped. Basically, he fooled me. Then, like a trained, professional hit-man he lurched into the bike path at the EXACT worst instant for me to do anything about it.

    Granted, as Bek stated, I should have been positioned differently and ready for assault. To my credit I am running a bright strobe up front which may have been the difference maker with mere inches to spare.
    Last edited by JoeyBike; 05-24-13 at 07:22 AM.
    "For all we know his skills may be excellent, allowing him to ride like an idiot without actually being one." - FBinNY

  13. #38
    Senior Member dynodonn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeyBike View Post
    Yes. He rolled up behind the vehicle at the light ahead (the white SUV in my photos was actually a white van during the incident) as if he were waiting in the queue to make a left turn as well. He rolled nearly up to the van at the light and very nearly stopped. Basically, he fooled me. Then, like a trained, professional hit-man he lurched into the bike path at the EXACT worst instant for me to do anything about it.

    Granted, as Bek stated, I should have been positioned differently and ready for assault. To my credit I am running a bright strobe up front which may have been the difference maker with mere inches to spare.

    Now the picture in my mind is much clearer, and I can relate to this type of scenario. You said that you were operating your bike at around 15 mph, which I feel is a pretty fast pace when operating in those confines. In my locale, and with my reflexes, I usually operate at about half the speed when coming upon a similar scenario. YMMV

  14. #39
    20+mph Commuter JoeyBike's Avatar
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    They say "speed kills". Slower would have been better I agree.

  15. #40
    Senior Member rumrunn6's Avatar
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    this: "Bike lanes are cool but we are never safe. Sometimed they offer a dangerous sense of false security"
    cycling is like baseball ~ it doesn't take much to make it interesting

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bekologist View Post
    For an aspiring traffic jammer


    It's not the bikelane
    i think the design of that bike lane is particularly bad since the broken line and widening encourages the right-side pass.
    Road rash is a precious gift. Road rash is your friend. Bask in it, appreciate it, love it. Above all, learn from it. --Robert Hurst

  17. #42
    24-Speed Machine Chris516's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rumrunn6 View Post
    this: "Bike lanes are cool but we are never safe. Sometimed they offer a dangerous sense of false security"
    I have felt that way, for a long time.

  18. #43
    24-Speed Machine Chris516's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by turbo1889 View Post
    Although I can't be sure I seriously doubt that picture was taken in MT - that is Joey's picture not mine.
    I should have noticed, from the way the buildings look. It looks like the French Quarter, unless that is period/style of all buildings in New Orleans.

  19. #44
    Senior Member kalliergo's Avatar
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    Joey, ya gotta change behavior there, now. Passing on the right just got a lot more dangerous. Time to start moving left while approaching that location.

    I haven't studied the overall environment, but, at first glance, I don't think I would have welcomed that BL.
    "What if we fail to stop the erosion of cities by automobiles?. . . In that case, we Americans will hardly need to ponder a mystery that has troubled men for millennia: What is the purpose of life? For us, the answer will be clear, established and for all practical purposes indisputable: The purpose of life is to produce and consume automobiles."

    ~Jane Jacobs, The Death and Life of Great American Cities

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by kalliergo View Post
    I haven't studied the overall environment, but, at first glance, I don't think I would have welcomed that BL.
    the pic with traffic suggests it is a door zone bike lane.

    Road rash is a precious gift. Road rash is your friend. Bask in it, appreciate it, love it. Above all, learn from it. --Robert Hurst

  21. #46
    Senior Member kalliergo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spare_wheel View Post
    the pic with traffic suggests it is a door zone bike lane.
    Yes. People should know better by now.

    How do they make these decisions, and who approves designs, in Nawlins, Joey? Do they have public meetings? Does anyone attend?
    "What if we fail to stop the erosion of cities by automobiles?. . . In that case, we Americans will hardly need to ponder a mystery that has troubled men for millennia: What is the purpose of life? For us, the answer will be clear, established and for all practical purposes indisputable: The purpose of life is to produce and consume automobiles."

    ~Jane Jacobs, The Death and Life of Great American Cities

  22. #47
    20+mph Commuter JoeyBike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kalliergo View Post
    Yes. People should know better by now.

    How do they make these decisions, and who approves designs, in Nawlins, Joey? Do they have public meetings? Does anyone attend?
    Yes and yes. Meetings last 20 years, then they still screw it up. The bike lane in my photos was promised forever, then at the last minute denied. Local bike groups got together in protest so the engineers, AFTER everything else was in place, were forced by the city to patch together a "bike lane".

    Still a Caribbean nation for the most part, but they are really trying and doing some good in other locations around NOLA.
    "For all we know his skills may be excellent, allowing him to ride like an idiot without actually being one." - FBinNY

  23. #48
    Senior Member volosong's Avatar
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    In defense of the truck driver ... he did realize in time that he could cause damage/hurt and stopped. His mistake was not looking fully before trying to pass. Maybe he did look, but you were in his blind zone. In any case, when he saw that he was going to collide with you, he stopped. We can fault him for not checking fully, but have to admit that he did the right thing when it mattered. There are not too many of us who would not want to pass on the right to go around left-turning traffic.

    From the pictures, that's a tough street to ride upon. A lot of the bike lane is in the door-zone. To be somewhat safe, you have to ride on the left white line tdo make sure some idiot doesn't open his door into you.

    Glad you're safe. Consider a bright rear strobe also. Wouldn't hurt - might help.
    Deut 6:5

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  24. #49
    20+mph Commuter JoeyBike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by volosong View Post
    Glad you're safe. Consider a bright rear strobe also. Wouldn't hurt - might help.
    From my very first post that started the thread:

    I have been riding with bright@$$ed flashing front light day and night since last summer. I think that saved me this time.
    Nothing I have ever done to my bike or my clothing has made such a huge difference in getting seen and respected than a bright strobe up front during the day. I will soon compose a post here in A&S with my feelings and experience on the strobe. Fantastic! I am certain he saw it out of the corner of his eye through the rear glass or the mirror and had a reflex reaction to stomp the brake.
    "For all we know his skills may be excellent, allowing him to ride like an idiot without actually being one." - FBinNY

  25. #50
    Senior Member kalliergo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeyBike View Post
    Yes and yes. Meetings last 20 years, then they still screw it up. The bike lane in my photos was promised forever, then at the last minute denied. Local bike groups got together in protest so the engineers, AFTER everything else was in place, were forced by the city to patch together a "bike lane".

    Still a Caribbean nation for the most part, but they are really trying and doing some good in other locations around NOLA.
    Sigh. Got it.

    New Orleans is on my list of "urban treasures relentlessly screwed up by creepy and incompetent people" -- foreign (USACE) and domestic (long list).

    Another prime location to start de-prioritizing auto traffic.
    "What if we fail to stop the erosion of cities by automobiles?. . . In that case, we Americans will hardly need to ponder a mystery that has troubled men for millennia: What is the purpose of life? For us, the answer will be clear, established and for all practical purposes indisputable: The purpose of life is to produce and consume automobiles."

    ~Jane Jacobs, The Death and Life of Great American Cities

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