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  1. #26
    24-Speed Machine Chris516's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dynodonn View Post
    If one wants to talk about taking the lane on the street that the OP video was recorded on, I would do it in setting up for a left turn at an intersection, or if the bike lane was obstructed for some reason. Buffered and no parked vehicles to contend with, not too bad of a bike lane in my book.
    That would seem to be the case. But that is also relying on the motorist not drifting into the bike lane. The only 'buffer' for a bike lane that would get me to use it, is if, there was a concrete divider between the main flow of traffic, and the bike lane.

    Because, The two motorists I mentioned last week, both made mistakes. The first one passed too close, yet when he got back in the lane, they kept control of their vehicle. The second driver was inversely proportional by, passing properly, but then slamming into the curb, when they got back in the lane.

    So, Unless there is a physical 'division' on the road between the main traffic lanes, and the bike lane, I won't use it.

  2. #27
    Yabba-Dabba-Doo! AlmostTrick's Avatar
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    I don't understand all the attention to this road w/BL. It seems clear to me by the title of this thread, along with the text in the opening post, that Joey advocates filtering in almost all situations, and is against lining up with the cars no matter the road/BL situation.

    Plus we have all his cool videos showing his preference...

    The road posted in the opening video has nothing to do with it.
    Have Bike, Will Travel

  3. #28
    totally louche Bekologist's Avatar
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    no, no, joey used the video as an example of bad driving, and one of the posters chimed in how they'd ride right there in the lane, not riding where Joey was.
    "Evidence, anecdote and methodology all support planning for roadway bike traffic."

  4. #29
    Senior Member dynodonn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris516 View Post
    That would seem to be the case. But that is also relying on the motorist not drifting into the bike lane. The only 'buffer' for a bike lane that would get me to use it, is if, there was a concrete divider between the main flow of traffic, and the bike lane.

    Because, The two motorists I mentioned last week, both made mistakes. The first one passed too close, yet when he got back in the lane, they kept control of their vehicle. The second driver was inversely proportional by, passing properly, but then slamming into the curb, when they got back in the lane.

    So, Unless there is a physical 'division' on the road between the main traffic lanes, and the bike lane, I won't use it.
    I use bike lanes considerably, and though I do like "taking the lane" whenever I can, it's that I dislike the increased motorist harassment when a bike lane is present and I'm riding outside of it for some reason or another.

  5. #30
    24-Speed Machine Chris516's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dynodonn View Post
    I use bike lanes considerably, and though I do like "taking the lane" whenever I can, it's that I dislike the increased motorist harassment when a bike lane is present and I'm riding outside of it for some reason or another.
    Well, It is also a matter of how the cyclist reacts' to said harassment. I assume all motorists' are going to be stupid. I also take into account, how the U.S. 'road structure' is built. First, The fact that vehicles made for the U.S. automotive market travel on the right side of the road with steering wheels on the left. Conversely, Cars made in England(for example), have the steering wheels on the right, while they drive on the left. The stupid consistency within both car markets, is that a motorist has to gauge how far to pass a cyclist, since they can't physically see through the lower portion of the passenger-side door to accurately give a cyclist enough room when passing.

  6. #31
    totally louche Bekologist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris516
    The stupid consistency within both car markets, is that a motorist has to gauge how far to pass a cyclist, since they can't physically see through the lower portion of the passenger-side door to accurately give a cyclist enough room when passing.

    how do they gauge that distance any easier with the bike in the middle of the traffic lane versus in a buffered bikelane?

    Seriously, a rider is suggesting they'd be riding right where the traffic got rearended, and not in the 8 feet of width in which joey is safely 'taking the (bike)lane in"

    it seems obvious the teaching moment in this thread is -cyclists that 'take the (traffic) lane' can leave themselves open to rearending in stop and go urban traffic.

    suggesting cyclists ride where a rider is much more likely to get rear ended and stuck in traffic is a downgrading of safety for riders facing traffic as seen in the OP.
    "Evidence, anecdote and methodology all support planning for roadway bike traffic."

  7. #32
    Senior Member dynodonn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris516 View Post
    Well, It is also a matter of how the cyclist reacts' to said harassment. I assume all motorists' are going to be stupid. I also take into account, how the U.S. 'road structure' is built. First, The fact that vehicles made for the U.S. automotive market travel on the right side of the road with steering wheels on the left. Conversely, Cars made in England(for example), have the steering wheels on the right, while they drive on the left. The stupid consistency within both car markets, is that a motorist has to gauge how far to pass a cyclist, since they can't physically see through the lower portion of the passenger-side door to accurately give a cyclist enough room when passing.
    At times, I'm glad that motorists sit on the opposite side of their vehicle in relation to passing me on a two lane road, since many motorists tend to be less confident in their passing maneuver, giving me considerably more than 3 ft of passing distance. When I'm riding on the left side of a US one way street, motorists are much more confident in making closer passing maneuvers and at an even faster speed level, since their ability to gauge passing distance is far better.

    How I react to motorist harassment depends mainly on my personal experience with our local traffic, after some considerable riding time and my annual motorist interactions ranging in the tens of thousands, I've found that my riding experience lower on the stress factor level when using our local bicycle infrastructure whenever I'm able to. I consider it choosing the lesser of the two evils.

  8. #33
    Seņior Member ItsJustMe's Avatar
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    The placement of the steering wheel towards the center of the road is based on the fact that it's a hell of a lot more important for road users to keep from hitting one another in head-on collisions than it is for them to be able to judge how much clearance they have to something on the side of the road. The former happens every few seconds, the latter happens for some people every few years, or at most a few times an hour.
    Work: the 8 hours that separates bike rides.

  9. #34
    24-Speed Machine Chris516's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bekologist View Post
    how do they gauge that distance any easier with the bike in the middle of the traffic lane versus in a buffered bike-lane?

    Seriously, a rider is suggesting they'd be riding right where the traffic got rear-ended, and not in the 8 feet of width in which joey is safely 'taking the (bike)lane in"

    it seems obvious the teaching moment in this thread is -cyclists that 'take the (traffic) lane' can leave themselves open to rear-ending in stop and go urban traffic.

    suggesting cyclists ride where a rider is much more likely to get rear ended and stuck in traffic is a downgrading of safety for riders facing traffic as seen in the OP.
    Because, They don't have to turn their head to see the cyclist, the cyclist will be directly in front of them. Also, To say that cyclists' leave themselves open to being rear-ended by 'taking the lane', is as equally weak, as saying that a cyclist doesn't leave themselves open to getting hurt by staying to the right of the traffic flow. Since a drunk or other kind of inattentive motorist could still hit them, by the motorist drifting into a bike lane, that is not physically separated from the traffic flow, by a concrete girder or something of that nature.

    Quote Originally Posted by dynodonn View Post
    At times, I'm glad that motorists sit on the opposite side of their vehicle in relation to passing me on a two lane road, since many motorists tend to be less confident in their passing maneuver, giving me considerably more than 3 ft of passing distance. When I'm riding on the left side of a US one way street, motorists are much more confident in making closer passing maneuvers and at an even faster speed level, since their ability to gauge passing distance is far better.

    How I react to motorist harassment depends mainly on my personal experience with our local traffic, after some considerable riding time and my annual motorist interactions ranging in the tens of thousands, I've found that my riding experience lower on the stress factor level when using our local bicycle infrastructure whenever I'm able to. I consider it choosing the lesser of the two evils.
    Yes, How a cyclist reacts to motorist harassment depends on personal experience with the local traffic in their locale. I was speaking generally. I think the motorist that hit the curb as they were getting back into the lane last week, didn't seem confident as they were getting back into the lane.

    Your example of riding on the left side of a U.S. one-way street is indirectly what I am referring to. If you are riding in the same direction as the motorized traffic, and you are on the left, and you would be passed, by the driver-side of the vehicle so the motorist just has to look out the driver-side door window.

  10. #35
    Senior Member dynodonn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris516 View Post

    Your example of riding on the left side of a U.S. one-way street is indirectly what I am referring to. If you are riding in the same direction as the motorized traffic, and you are on the left, and you would be passed, by the driver-side of the vehicle so the motorist just has to look out the driver-side door window.
    The one main reason that the steering wheel location is where it's at is for when a motorist is overtaking another vehicle, being able to better see oncoming traffic. So I wouldn't expect any changes to steering wheel locations any time soon.
    Last edited by dynodonn; 05-30-13 at 11:32 PM.

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