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  1. #1
    20+mph Commuter JoeyBike's Avatar
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    Reason #1 why I don't line up with the cars at stoplights. (VIDEO)

    I always filter to the front. Last week filtering almost got me in trouble when a car tried to pass a left-turning vehicle by using the bike lane. I posted that story last week: Nearly got hozed in the bike lane...

    Today I was reminded why I don't line up between the bumpers of drunks and texters. My "flight recorder" barely caught the sight and sounds of knuckleheadery. Turn up your volume to the max to hear the *CRUNCH* of plastic against steel. You can also see the wheels of the white SUV roll forward a bit at impact.

    I'm gonna take my chances filtering. At least I only have a chance of being knocked down instead of crushed when I am NEXT to the cars.


    https://vimeo.com/67094914
    Last edited by JoeyBike; 05-27-13 at 07:59 PM.
    "For all we know his skills may be excellent, allowing him to ride like an idiot without actually being one." - FBinNY

  2. #2
    Senior Member dynodonn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeyBike View Post
    I always filter to the front. Last week filtering almost got me in trouble when a car tried to pass a left-turning vehicle by using the bike lane. I posted that story last week: Nearly got hozed in the bike lane...

    Today I was reminded why I don't line up between the bumpers of drunks and texters. My "flight recorder" barely caught the sight and sounds of knuckleheadery. Turn up your volume to the max to hear the *CRUNCH* of plastic against steel. You can also see the wheels of the white SUV roll forward a bit at impact.

    I'm gonna take my chances filtering. At least I only have a chance of being knocked down instead of crushed when I am NEXT to the cars.

    I have numerous videos with myself lining up with cars at stoplights without incident.

    Motorist sees car ahead in line..... normal.... dog bites man story.
    Motorist sees cyclist ahead in line..... unusual....man bites dog scenario.
    Last edited by dynodonn; 05-27-13 at 08:18 PM.

  3. #3
    Yabba-Dabba-Doo! AlmostTrick's Avatar
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    Hmmm... ok.

    When I "line up with the cars" I always keep an eye on 'em in my mirror, and have my escape route planned. It's not like I just sit there obliviously figuring I could never be crushed.

    Having said that, I've never had to use an escape route. Not even almost, not even a close scare. Instead they all come up slow and stop way behind. Why? Because my experience has shown me that I garner way more attention on my bike than anyone in a car. When a texter glances up a sees a car it's nothing out of the ordinary, so they look back down. Not so when they see a bike in the middle of traffic!

    This last point is important. I've noticed cyclists off to the side get less respect.

    But hay, since your style works for you, in your environment, good for you. Should be a good thread!
    Have Bike, Will Travel

  4. #4
    24-Speed Machine Chris516's Avatar
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    I 'take the lane' so, I am constantly momentarily glancing behind, when I hear a difference in the engine, of the vehicle behind me.

  5. #5
    totally louche Bekologist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris516
    I 'take the lane' so, I am constantly momentarily glancing behind,
    Chris516, i take the lane too when prudent, but in this video, why would any cyclists be in line with the traffic? New Orleans looks like it gave cyclists like Joey and other savvy cyclists a buffered bike lane to take advantage of there. Hopefully most cyclists realize they'd be stuck in traffic doing the herkyjerky versus making good progress in the bikelane like Joey's video shows.

    .

    Does Joey mean, on roads like these, he'd never line up with traffic in order to run a left turn at the light? Yeah...... lining up with traffic to run red lights is counter to running the light, i'd imagine.
    Last edited by Bekologist; 05-28-13 at 04:55 AM.
    "Evidence, anecdote and methodology all support planning for roadway bike traffic."

  6. #6
    20+mph Commuter JoeyBike's Avatar
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    The bike lane in the vid is the best one in the city and the only one with a buffer zone. They deleted one entire car lane to make the bike lane. I would never line up with the cars there. It's all of the other roads where i would filter at a red - preferably between two lanes of traffic to avoid doors and peds at the curbs.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Looigi's Avatar
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    Vehicles get rear ended at stops, in stop and go traffic, etc. pretty often. I've witnessed it many times. Being between the two vehicles on a bike doesn't usually turn out well. Rather than line up in the middle of the vehicle in front, stay off to one side or the other so it'd be quicker to get out of the way and not get crunched, or at least more likely that you'd be knocked out of the way rather than get crunched. I do that on my motorcycle as well.

    However, in most case I ride my bike past stopped vehicles right up to the front of the line, either going straight, waiting at a light to turn left, or whatever. Can't do this on the motorcycle, except in CA where there are two lanes going in your direction, in which case you can legally split the lanes and ride to front at stops.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Shimagnolo's Avatar
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    I recall one regular poster here telling that he had been rear-ended *five* times over the years while stopped at traffic lights.

  9. #9
    Senior Member dynodonn's Avatar
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    In reviewing my rear cam videos, whenever I've lined up with traffic at a stoplight, I can clearly see that motorists are very aware of my presence. The only times that I have ever been close to being stuck from behind were at stop signs. At stop signs, following motorists were expecting me to be like a number of local cyclists, and to run it, but with them being caught off guard when I happen to stop for it. I do signal my stops when I'm able to, but not each and every time.

  10. #10
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    I line up in traffic at red lights every day and have never had a close call. Usually they stop way behind me. I think they're unsure of what to do with a bicycle in the lane. Once the light turns green, I start up and stay in the lane until I'm through the intersection. I then move back over to the shoulder/right side of the road to let them past.

    I will filter up on the right if there's a big line of cars, but I go slowly and watch for anyone turning right. If I reach the intersection before the light changes, I'll pull out into the crosswalk a bit so the front car sees me. No right hooks yet.

  11. #11
    Senior Member mikeybikes's Avatar
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    If there's no bike lane, I always line up with the traffic. Never once have I had a car fail to stop and hit me. Not saying it couldn't happen, but I feel my chances are better than if I were to filter up between the vehicles.

    With a bike lane like that though, who in their right mind would line up with cars?
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  12. #12
    Señior Member ItsJustMe's Avatar
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    If there's a bike lane, sure, I go up to the front. I don't know why you wouldn't. But in general I stay in line. On most of the roads that I ride on, the only way to pass the traffic would be to drop onto a gravel shoulder, which my 23s probably wouldn't work well on.

    If it's a long line and I expect to not be able to keep up with traffic (usually the case here, mostly 50 MPH roads) then I stay over on the right, usually between the right tire track and the white line, so that when traffic resumes again they can pass me as needed. If I'm turning left ahead then I will move to the center or left of the lane. On one corner where most people turn right, I move far left in the lane so people can pull past me to turn right on red if I'm near the front of the line.
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  13. #13
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    I try to spend as little time as possible sandwiched between tail pipes for obvious health reasons.

    In a situation where there is sufficient space/time I filter around vehicles on the left. I hate passing on the right since I have seen motorists suddenly decide to turn on the red far too often. I'll pass on the right in a parking lot situation but if I am coming up on an intersection I will always attempt to insert into the lane prior to the intersection.
    Last edited by spare_wheel; 05-28-13 at 12:01 PM.
    Road rash is a precious gift. Road rash is your friend. Bask in it, appreciate it, love it. Above all, learn from it. --Robert Hurst

  14. #14
    Senior Member rumrunn6's Avatar
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    nice vid, nice to see you in a bike lane for a change and not weaving in and out of traffic :-)
    cycling is like baseball ~ it doesn't take much to make it interesting

  15. #15
    totally louche Bekologist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spare_wheel View Post
    I try to spend as little time sandwiched between tail pipes for obvious health reasons.

    In a situation where there is sufficient space/time I filter around vehicles on the left. I hate passing on the right since I have seen motorists suddenly decide to turn on the red far too often. I'll pass on the right in a parking lot situation but if I am coming up on an intersection I will always attempt to insert into the lane prior to the intersection.
    right. so, as shown in Joeybike's video, you're suggesting you would move left out of this buffered, "Munichista" bike lane, and ride in between the two lanes of traffic to your left, every time you had to advance on the traffic?

    Why not simply advance on stopped traffic IN the buffered bikelane?
    "Evidence, anecdote and methodology all support planning for roadway bike traffic."

  16. #16
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    I also don't stop center lane between cars at lights for this very reason. I'd much rather be bumped or bounced, than crushed between two cars. BTW- it isn't only cars coming up to a red light. I've seen cars 2nd or third in line look up see the light change and take off without checking if the car(s) in front moved first.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bekologist View Post
    you're suggesting you would move left out of this buffered, "Munichista" bike lane
    supporting in road infrastructure AND the right to take the lane is very munichista.
    Last edited by spare_wheel; 05-28-13 at 12:04 PM.
    Road rash is a precious gift. Road rash is your friend. Bask in it, appreciate it, love it. Above all, learn from it. --Robert Hurst

  18. #18
    Senior Member
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    Yesterday I was sitting where the BMW was in the Google Maps picture waiting to turn left. An oncoming car went through the left-turn only lane and was headed straight at me (then merged into the through-lane.) Just when you think you've seen it all...It is funny how you develop a 6th bicycling sense though. I could see the car was going too fast to make a left turn and started to get out of the way.


  19. #19
    totally louche Bekologist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spare_wheel View Post
    supporting in road infrastructure AND the right to take the lane is very munichista.
    But, explain how your riding suggestion of always passing on the left works in the scenario depicted in the video. claims of never passing on the right need to be tempered with some sort of cavceat "unless there's room to the right that's clear to use" since buffered bike lanes as shown in the OP will put riders to the right of traffic, with no need to weave to the left every time they advance on traffic.

    Joeybike's video shows that to clearly be unecessary.

    so, how does your riding suggestion work out in practice on roads as pictured in the OP?
    "Evidence, anecdote and methodology all support planning for roadway bike traffic."

  20. #20
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bekologist View Post
    claims of never passing on the right
    What I actually wrote:

    "I'll pass on the right in a parking lot situation but if I am coming up on an intersection I will always attempt to insert into the lane prior to the intersection."

    If I can't insert I will sometimes to continue to pass in a "context sensitive manner".
    Road rash is a precious gift. Road rash is your friend. Bask in it, appreciate it, love it. Above all, learn from it. --Robert Hurst

  21. #21
    totally louche Bekologist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spare_wheel View Post
    What I actually wrote:

    "I'll pass on the right in a parking lot situation but if I am coming up on an intersection I will always attempt to insert into the lane prior to the intersection."

    If I can't insert I will sometimes to continue to pass in a "context sensitive manner".
    i see. so you will pass motorists to the right in a bikelane. similar to how joey's video pictured it, rather unlike the initial claims. in joey's video, you WOULDN'T attempt to pass on the left.

    Riders adamant about taking the lane and passing on the left can also pass traffic on the right using bikelanes.

    got it.
    "Evidence, anecdote and methodology all support planning for roadway bike traffic."

  22. #22
    24-Speed Machine Chris516's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bekologist View Post
    Chris516, i take the lane too when prudent, but in this video, why would any cyclists be in line with the traffic? New Orleans looks like it gave cyclists like Joey and other savvy cyclists a buffered bike lane to take advantage of there. Hopefully most cyclists realize they'd be stuck in traffic doing the herkyjerky versus making good progress in the bikelane like Joey's video shows.

    .

    Does Joey mean, on roads like these, he'd never line up with traffic in order to run a left turn at the light? Yeah...... lining up with traffic to run red lights is counter to running the light, i'd imagine.
    I get in line with the traffic, because I have been injured when I did AFRAP(As Far Right As Possible), on several occasions. A 'buffered bike lane'(I presume you mean one separated from the main roadway, of concrete construction), is a good idea. But not every locale has one of those.

    Locally on one two-lane 50mph road, they have a bike lane, no wider than your average door frame. So I won't go on that road.

    As for Joey's video, I would 'take the lane' on that road.

  23. #23
    totally louche Bekologist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris516
    As for Joey's video, I would 'take the lane' on that road.
    you would be 'taking the lane' in the video?


    https://vimeo.com/67094914[/QUOTE]

    joey's video? You're telling the forum you would not ride in the buffered bike lane, but would instead be 'taking the lane?'

    joey's video is a portrayal of a motorist rear ending someone. imagine if that were a cyclist. Good thing New Orleans provided Joey a nice, wide buffered bikelane to ride in - 'taking the (bike)lane'.

    A cyclist 'taking the lane' might have been the vehicle getting rear ended. Pretty sure that is what Joey intended to illustrate in the video, maybe there's something everyone else is missing here?
    Last edited by Bekologist; 05-29-13 at 03:23 AM.
    "Evidence, anecdote and methodology all support planning for roadway bike traffic."

  24. #24
    24-Speed Machine Chris516's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bekologist View Post
    you would be 'taking the lane' in the video?


    https://vimeo.com/67094914
    joey's video? You're telling the forum you would not ride in the buffered bike lane, but would instead be 'taking the lane?'

    joey's video is a portrayal of a motorist rear ending someone. imagine if that were a cyclist. Good thing New Orleans provided Joey a nice, wide buffered bikelane to ride in - 'taking the (bike)lane'.

    A cyclist 'taking the lane' might have been the vehicle getting rear ended. Pretty sure that is what Joey intended to illustrate in the video, maybe there's something everyone else is missing here?[/QUOTE]
    The only thing Joey's video conveys, is fear. Being rear-ended is a risk for any cyclist, that rides on the road. Regardless of whether, the cyclist 'takes the lane', or not.

  25. #25
    Senior Member dynodonn's Avatar
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    If one wants to talk about taking the lane on the street that the OP video was recorded on, I would do it in setting up for a left turn at an intersection, or if the bike lane was obstructed for some reason. Buffered and no parked vehicles to contend with, not too bad of a bike lane in my book.

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