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-   -   More kids attacking cyclist (http://www.bikeforums.net/advocacy-safety/895453-more-kids-attacking-cyclist.html)

Essex 06-14-13 03:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FBinNY (Post 15740890)
Safety in parks and trails is a numbers game. Thugs like good odds, so 6 of them want to jump 1 victim. If their targets come out in larger numbers the thugs go look for easier pickings. Numbers is how we took back the parks in NYC, and ultimately it'll be numbers that secure these trails.

When I lived at Park Slope NY I nearly got jumped by a bunch of miscreants. 6-8 of em'. I was jogging near the arch and was fast enough to dodge traffic and lost them. Again, school was out for the most part and the cops said to take special note of the shoes they were wearing. He said they would switch shirts, jackets, hats etc - but had a harder time changing shoes.

Riding through the park was something else come evening. I don't know how it is these days come evening on a weekday, but I sure as heck didn't ride close to thugs. Or went by quickly enough that I didn't present too much of a target.

manapua_man 06-14-13 05:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UberGeek (Post 15737715)
And, cyclists do survive auto collisions as well, at times.

I sure did once. I also distinctly recall doing an *amazing* superman pose before I hit the pavement too. (Seriously. I wish I had a picture.)

Brandonub 06-14-13 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris516 (Post 15740856)
It is not uncommon in that region of the county for behavior like that to happen. So again, race makes no difference.

If you think race is a non-factor in a DC-area story about violence, you don't know DC.

UberGeek 06-14-13 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brandonub (Post 15741571)
If you think race is a non-factor in a DC-area story about violence, you don't know DC.

Race has very little to do with anything... Socio-economics status? Sure, I can buy that one.

Brandonub 06-14-13 08:14 AM

That takes a pretty amazing level of deliberate blindness to insist that race has very little to do with anything. Covering one's eyes and insisting that hate crimes aren't a thing doesn't make it so.

UberGeek 06-14-13 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brandonub (Post 15741825)
That takes a pretty amazing level of deliberate blindness to insist that race has very little to do with anything. Covering one's eyes and insisting that hate crimes aren't a thing doesn't make it so.

Of course it was a hate crime. I mean, they spray painted "{Fill in whatever ethnicity you want to blame** Power" on the guy's forehead...

EDIT Don't know it switched to asterisks there... In between the asterisks it should have been "Fill in whatever ethnicity you want to blame"

Brandonub 06-14-13 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UberGeek (Post 15742074)
Of course it was a hate crime. I mean, they spray painted "{Fill in whatever ethnicity you want to blame** Power" on the guy's forehead...

EDIT Don't know it switched to asterisks there... In between the asterisks it should have been "Fill in whatever ethnicity you want to blame"

That's why knowing the ethnicities here are relevant. Because it's worth knowing whether people should be watching out for racially targeted crime, because it's worth knowing what sort of appearance should be approached cautiously on that trail, and so on. Just insisting up and down that there's no way it's relevant is a bizarre knee jerk move to make sure everyone knows you're super not racist.

UberGeek 06-14-13 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brandonub (Post 15742142)
That's why knowing the ethnicities here are relevant. Because it's worth knowing whether people should be watching out for racially targeted crime, because it's worth knowing what sort of appearance should be approached cautiously on that trail, and so on. Just insisting up and down that there's no way it's relevant is a bizarre knee jerk move to make sure everyone knows you're super not racist.

What evidence is there that it's a racially motivated crime?

3alarmer 06-14-13 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UberGeek (Post 15741699)
Race has very little to do with anything... Socio-economics status? Sure, I can buy that one.

...........good luck with your efforts at decoupling them in Washington, D.C.
I look forward to your project's success with high hopes and a pure heart.

...................................Your cause is just, my friend, you shall prevail.

dynaryder 06-14-13 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UberGeek (Post 15742179)
What evidence is there that it's a racially motivated crime?

Because the the victims in these type of attacks have been mostly white(we've had several attacks like this on Metro).

Saw News Talk today,they had on the leader of the DC Guardian Angels. He talked about how this type of activity is becoming a growing trend because it's a way of kids showing how tough they are. He also said most of these attacks are recorded and placed on YouTube and WorldStarHipHop,so they're hoping a video of this attack will be posted so there'd be a chance of catching the kids. He also said the GA's would be stepping up their patrols.

http://www.wjla.com/blogs/news-talk/...als-19104.html
(second video)

3alarmer 06-14-13 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UberGeek (Post 15742179)
What evidence is there that it's a racially motivated crime?

Look, I know it's probably difficult for you, from the perspective of Buffalo, NY, to accept that there
might be good reason on the part of residents of the D.C. metropolitan area to fear young black teenage
males, but all I can tell you is that it is not without some reasonable historical basis.

When I lived there and drove a cab in college years, there were no drivers at all who would pick up
that particular demographic.........and that includes all the black drivers that I knew and spoke with.

Is it an awful thing ? Sure it is. Is it racist in nature ? I guess it probably is, too, but not necessarily
in the same vein as the racism you would accept without question if a black man were beaten in one
of the predominantly white areas of New York city by a gang of kids.....even if race were not mentioned
in the news reports. And this has also happened, so let's cut to the chase and state unequivocally that
if you live in Washington, D.C., one of the hazards you try to avoid is being beaten up by teenage gangs,
the vast majority of which are black, and whether they are what they are from economic and social conditions
has little to do with simple survival and avoidance.

If you haven't lived there, please try not to judge the people that have or currently do live there. Thanks.:thumb:

FBinNY 06-14-13 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dynaryder (Post 15743939)
Because the the victims in these type of attacks have been mostly white(we've had several attacks like this on Metro).

This is the best evidence that race (of the victim) is not a primary factor. There's a decent number of same race attacks.

The most senseless of these attacks are often gang initiation things. Others, just plain thuggery. The reason most victims are white is that most of the population on these park trails are white, and when robbery is a motive, it's assumed that whites may have more money.

The experience of many major cities that have gotten a handle on street crime is that a get tough, prosecute anything and everything approach works. What many have dubbed the broken window theory of crime prevention. But this takes a fair amount of political resolve, an patience. Both generally lacking until things get so bad that getting tough is palatable.

CB HI 06-14-13 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FBinNY (Post 15744009)
The reason most victims are white is that most of the population on these park trails are white, and when robbery is a motive, it's assumed that whites may have more money.

Please cite your source of information on that. At that DC location, I find that claim hard to believe.

Chris516 06-14-13 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brandonub (Post 15741571)
If you think race is a non-factor in a DC-area story about violence, you don't know DC.

No, I do not think it is a factor. Apart from 2002-2007, I have lived in the DC-Metro region since 1984. So, I think I have a right to be critical of the region. Just like I originally said, in the 1980's when I had to go down there to see my (ex)wife before we got married. I never felt safe in that area. That was during the time that drugs were rampant in the region. But I never hated the area because of one race. I hated the area because of the predominance to violence. The article in the Washington Post doesn't make a specific reference to race. Just that the victim was attacked by fifteen youths.

Essex 06-15-13 05:33 AM

If someone travels a lot and goes to poorer countries, or sections of them - you will see some level of direct, or indirect violence/thievery etc. I try to avoid these areas if possible unless I am doing some type of related work. In DC - there is a disproportionate share of wealth and it's as polar a town as I have ever seen. As a bike rider I would never choose to ride through these areas as I am only increasing my chances of something bad happening to me.

That said - a greater level of policing is necessary if these types of incidences increases. And I am sure juvenile court is a hopping place in the DC Metro area.

Dchiefransom 06-16-13 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by curbtender (Post 15740665)
Really is a matter for the police. No one here will solve this. Sounds like someone got out of hand.

and yet, the United States supreme Court says that it is not. Try the majority opinion in Warren Vs DC.

curbtender 06-16-13 01:57 PM

We were not there, and, if we are talking about this, shouldn't be on the jury. I see that there is some doubt about others in the group helping or escalating the incident. What do you know about this that makes it OK to speculate?

CB HI 06-16-13 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by curbtender (Post 15749020)
We were not there, and, if we are talking about this, shouldn't be on the jury. I see that there is some doubt about others in the group helping or escalating the incident. What do you know about this that makes it OK to speculate?

Because we are not on a jury, it is OK to speculate. You do know you are on a discussion website, right?

3alarmer 06-16-13 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CB HI (Post 15749206)
Because we are not on a jury, it is OK to speculate. You do know you are on a discussion website, right?

...................gee whiz, I'm glad I didn't have to say that one.

curbtender 06-16-13 03:36 PM

That's true, so lets say the bike rider told some punk to make way and got his aa beat.

FBinNY 06-16-13 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dchiefransom (Post 15748285)
and yet, the United States supreme Court says that it is not. Try the majority opinion in Warren Vs DC.

This isn't relevant to the discussion. It's a narrow ruling relating to redress against the police for failure to render assistance. The ruling doesn't define what is or isn't a police matter, which is really a political issue.

If City Hall determines that they want or need more protection on bike paths, then they'll make known to the PC, and he'll respond. City halls respond to public and media pressure so it's up to those who care to make it an issue.

dynaryder 06-16-13 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FBinNY (Post 15744009)
The reason most victims are white is that most of the population on these park trails are white, and when robbery is a motive, it's assumed that whites may have more money.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dynaryder (Post 15743939)
Because the the victims in these type of attacks have been mostly white(we've had several attacks like this on Metro).

We've had attacks of this nature on the Metro(subway) as well. And they,like this one,have been attacks. No money or property was taken.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris516 (Post 15744149)
The article in the Washington Post doesn't make a specific reference to race. Just that the victim was attacked by fifteen youths.

In other articles they've given the race of the attackers,and there's a woman who claimed to see them just after the attack and said they were black.

CB HI 06-16-13 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by curbtender (Post 15749277)
That's true, so lets say the bike rider told some punk to make way and got his aa beat.

In DC, that is a possibility, but all it would have really taken was an unknowing glance towards the punks.

3alarmer 06-16-13 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by curbtender (Post 15749277)
That's true, so lets say the bike rider told some punk to make way and got his aa beat.

...........what the hell, let's just say nothing bad happened, nothing to see here; move along.

curbtender 06-16-13 09:49 PM

Nice, 'Police Sqaud' quote. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NNOrp_83RU


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