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-   -   More kids attacking cyclist (http://www.bikeforums.net/advocacy-safety/895453-more-kids-attacking-cyclist.html)

CB HI 06-16-13 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by curbtender (Post 15750299)
Nice, 'Police Sqaud' quote. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NNOrp_83RU

'Police Sqaud' will probably solve the case before the DC police will.

rydabent 06-18-13 07:03 AM

Carry a large can of pepper spray!!!!!

FBinNY 06-18-13 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rydabent (Post 15754887)
Carry a large can of pepper spray!!!!!

Never bring a knife to a gunfight. If you're attacked by more than two or three people, odds are pepper spray isn't going to do you any good. If you need to ride through areas where you're prone to attack, go in numbers or don't go ay all.

Meanwhile, agitate for increased police presence, which tends to move gang activity elsewhere.

UberGeek 06-18-13 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FBinNY (Post 15754966)
Never bring a knife to a gunfight. If you're attacked by more than two or three people, odds are pepper spray isn't going to do you any good. If you need to ride through areas where you're prone to attack, go in numbers or don't go ay all.

Meanwhile, agitate for increased police presence, which tends to move gang activity elsewhere.

Bear spray will disabled an entire crowd.

PlanoFuji 06-18-13 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UberGeek (Post 15755232)
Bear spray will disabled an entire crowd.

Good luck with that!

UberGeek 06-18-13 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PlanoFuji (Post 15755976)
Good luck with that!

Law enforcement have great luck with it:
http://rt.com/files/usa/news/police-...loy-pepper.jpg

A simple wave of the arm, and you've disabled 5 people.

PlanoFuji 06-18-13 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UberGeek (Post 15756044)
Law enforcement have great luck with it:
http://rt.com/files/usa/news/police-...loy-pepper.jpg

A simple wave of the arm, and you've disabled 5 people.

I would suggest you do a few basic web searches of pepper spray failure... It CAN work, but it doesn't ALWAYS work, people on drugs or for other reasons can shrug off its effects, at least for long enough to kill their intended victim.

And it can disable the person using it if their attackers are upwind... or simply close-enough that the pepper cloud covers the attacker as well as the victim... Oh, and bear spray produces a much larger cloud than normal defensive spray, so it will get the victim as well in most human assault situations (<15 ft between attacker and victim when first deployed)... So you had better hope you recover before your attacker...

CB HI 06-18-13 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PlanoFuji (Post 15756062)
I would suggest you do a few basic web searches of pepper spray failure... It CAN work, but it doesn't ALWAYS work, people on drugs or for other reasons can shrug off its effects, at least for long enough to kill their intended victim.

And it can disable the person using it if their attackers are upwind... or simply close-enough that the pepper cloud covers the attacker as well as the victim... Oh, and bear spray produces a much larger cloud than normal defensive spray, so it will get the victim as well in most human assault situations (<15 ft between attacker and victim when first deployed)... So you had better hope you recover before your attacker...

Sounds like you prefer to just take a beating.

3alarmer 06-18-13 04:39 PM

.......................:popcorn

curbtender 06-18-13 05:02 PM

What the community has done... http://www.wusa9.com/news/article/26...Of-Teens-In-DC

meanwhile 06-18-13 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CB HI (Post 15756944)
Quote:

Quote Originally Posted by PlanoFuji View Post
I would suggest you do a few basic web searches of pepper spray failure... It CAN work, but it doesn't ALWAYS work, people on drugs or for other reasons can shrug off its effects, at least for long enough to kill their intended victim.

And it can disable the person using it if their attackers are upwind... or simply close-enough that the pepper cloud covers the attacker as well as the victim... Oh, and bear spray produces a much larger cloud than normal defensive spray, so it will get the victim as well in most human assault situations (<15 ft between attacker and victim when first deployed)... So you had better hope you recover before your attacker...
Sounds like you prefer to just take a beating.

Than hilariously pepper spraying yourself and then getting beaten up as well, yes.

Please apply some common sense. Because someone is kind enough to explain to you that your fantasies are not realistic - because the weapon you advocate will douse you with pepper gas - does NOT mean that they want to beaten up! Just that they don't like pepper gas.

DX-MAN 06-18-13 05:22 PM

As usual, when two-legged predators set up 'shop', they do so in areas that suit their purposes -- no place for the 'victim' to go....

Yeahhh, pepper spray would be problematic, given the vagaries of the wind; one time you'd be golden, the other you'd be your own victim. A stun gun would require you to let the predator get within arm's reach.

Paintball pistol? Enough of a nuisance/distraction to allow a good rider to kick up a sprint....?

3alarmer 06-18-13 06:07 PM

More like feets don't fail me now..
 

CB HI 06-18-13 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by meanwhile (Post 15757133)
Than hilariously pepper spraying yourself and then getting beaten up as well, yes.

Please apply some common sense. Because someone is kind enough to explain to you that your fantasies are not realistic - because the weapon you advocate will douse you with pepper gas - does NOT mean that they want to beaten up! Just that they don't like pepper gas.

I have used pepper spray a couple of times on dogs. Worked well. I got a little bit of back spray one time, no big deal, it actually helped clear my sinuses without being disabling for me. It was sure better than getting a dog bite.

For the two legged kind, just having a mace gun on my CamelBak strap stopped any further aggression.

Also, my comment to the other poster was appropriate as he did not offer any other solution.

CB HI 06-18-13 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DX-MAN (Post 15757146)
Paintball pistol? Enough of a nuisance/distraction to allow a good rider to kick up a sprint....?

Or get paint balls filled with pepper solution and look cool, like Dog the Bounty Hunter with his pepper paint ball rifle.

Essex 06-18-13 06:24 PM

As a kid growing up in Pacific Heights/San Francisco, Ca - I would routinely seem marauding groups of angry kids from the Western Addition seek out kids like me to beat up. They were usually in groups greater than 6. All angrier than hell and beating up random kid victims who they would outflank and outrun. They would sometimes carry BB guns and wing you too. It wasn't an infrequent happening until the Western Addition started to become gentrified.

I got a royal beat down once. And I remember my "friend" Tommy W. running away as fast as he could as he deserted me to save his skin. Meanwhile, I get the crap pummeled out of me. The first kid to punch me was a little sucker who must have seen this as some kind of initiation into manhood. It was weird, because in my head I knew not to strike someone smaller than myself. That said - I did manage to cold cock one of the other bastards, but overcoming 5 others was too much. They kicked, punched, spit, cursed, tore clothes, scratched my face up. I don't remember how I got away, but I think the fact that I wasn't taking it lying down helped. Plus, the afore mentioned cold cocking.

The parents called the cops - but they did little other than taking down some meaningless information and saying stay away from groups of angry kids.

This bike guy's situation is no different than mine. The teens are angrier than all hell. I see this all the time. They live with verbal / physical violence daily, they spend their time talking smack and about getting even. Seriously, spend some time near a group of these kids and the dominant conversation is smack. With other kids (like Pacific Hts, or areas where there is cultivation in the household teen conversations are about academics, sports, college and other things.

In the eyes of these marauding teens - there is very little for them at the end of the road. It's a bleak future, and what better way than to take it out on someone? Especially someone who is not in their neighborhood, or socio-economic status. In my day - there was no video. Perhaps, the community and cyclist get lucky and they catch these cowards who should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

PlanoFuji 06-18-13 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CB HI (Post 15756944)
Sounds like you prefer to just take a beating.

No I prefer avoidance if possible, and a handgun if I can't.

P.S., A female friend of mine was once assaulted by a would-be ****** in Arlington, TX. She used pepper spray and reported that both her and the attacker received roughly equal amounts. It stopped neither of them... He kept attacking and she kept fighting, it wasn't until the arrival of a third party that the attacker fled.

Non-lethal options don't overcome adrenaline (or other drugs) very well. And lethal options are not a sure thing either, particularly in the OP situation. So avoidance is the best, most practical option. In short don't ride alone in dangerous areas if you can avoid it.

CB HI 06-18-13 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PlanoFuji (Post 15757411)
No I prefer avoidance if possible, and a handgun if I can't.

That works except in states that make conceled carry near impossible. Then a Mace gun is the next best thing and the old pepper sray can after that.

Folks that are really worried about being disabled by pepper spray, should do the cop training of getting spray and still fight. Thankfully, bad guys do not do that training.

Essex 06-18-13 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PlanoFuji (Post 15757411)
No I prefer avoidance if possible, and a handgun if I can't.

P.S., A female friend of mine was once assaulted by a would-be ****** in Arlington, TX. She used pepper spray and reported that both her and the attacker received roughly equal amounts. It stopped neither of them... He kept attacking and she kept fighting, it wasn't until the arrival of a third party that the attacker fled.

Non-lethal options don't overcome adrenaline (or other drugs) very well. And lethal options are not a sure thing either, particularly in the OP situation. So avoidance is the best, most practical option. In short don't ride alone in dangerous areas if you can avoid it.

From a objective perspective - how does she quantify that they received equal amounts in the midst of a physical altercation? As mentioned - staying away is the best solution, and left without weapons either running, or standing and fighting become the only options. And sometimes - its JUST YOUR TURN.

PlanoFuji 06-18-13 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CB HI (Post 15757331)
I have used pepper spray a couple of times on dogs. Worked well. I got a little bit of back spray one time, no big deal, it actually helped clear my sinuses without being disabling for me. It was sure better than getting a dog bite.

For the two legged kind, just having a mace gun on my CamelBak strap stopped any further aggression.

Also, my comment to the other poster was appropriate as he did not offer any other solution.

This is one of the most ridiculous things I've read in a while...

Pepper spray works well on dogs for a couple of reasons. One they are animals without the ability to override their natural reactions that drugs and sentience give people. Second, one usually sprays dogs at a much greater distance than is possible with people such as in the OP...

And no your response wasn't appropriate, it was simply typical of arm chair internet warriors... Oh, in many states, CA and NY? among others, the use of pepper spray on people has the same legal ramifications as the lethal use of a firearm does in my state. In short, spraying a group of teens with bear spray at a distance that would give you a chance of not spraying yourself is almost certainly going to result in a court room appearance on felony charges... and if you wait to they get close-enough it means you spray yourself as well and make it that much more difficult to run away--which is the only remaining LEGAL option in DC...

In situations such as the OP, there simply isn't any good solution. The best we can learn from such things, is to avoid placing ourselves in risky situations.

PlanoFuji 06-18-13 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Essex (Post 15757463)
From a objective perspective - how does she quantify that they received equal amounts in the midst of a physical altercation? As mentioned - staying away is the best solution, and left without weapons either running, or standing and fighting become the only options. And sometimes - its JUST YOUR TURN.

Well she didn't get a graduated cylinder out and measure it, but from her description in the time it took her to pull the pepper spray from her purse and activate it, the attacker was in contact and pushing her to the ground, so the pepper spray cloud enveloped both of their heads--hence about equal treatment. In either case, the important point was that it didn't deter either of them...

Essex 06-18-13 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PlanoFuji (Post 15757482)
Well she didn't get a graduated cylinder out and measure it, but from her description in the time it took her to pull the pepper spray from her purse and activate it, the attacker was in contact and pushing her to the ground, so the pepper spray cloud enveloped both of their heads--hence about equal treatment. In either case, the important point was that it didn't deter either of them...

Sucks for your friend, but glad she came out sort of OK. Too bad the spray didn't work as intended. I do hope they caught the assailant.

PlanoFuji 06-18-13 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CB HI (Post 15757452)
That works except in states that make conceled carry near impossible. Then a Mace gun is the next best thing and the old pepper sray can after that.

Folks that are really worried about being disabled by pepper spray, should do the cop training of getting spray and still fight. Thankfully, bad guys do not do that training.

You are really showing that you don't know what you are talking about. Training is not necessary (though it can help) to overcome the effect of pepper spray. Go to the library and look for law enforcement journals on the effectiveness of non-lethal options like tasers and pepper spray. There are plenty of cases where such have NO EFFECT. Pepper spray is a gone to he%% option at best, and not likely one to keep you from getting the crap beat out of you in the OP situation, indeed, it is reasonably likely to make the beating worse by ticking off the criminals. THE ONLY REASONABLE OPTION the man in the OP had was to RUN AWAY at the first sign of TROUBLE--or simply not travel in that area alone if possible.

PlanoFuji 06-18-13 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Essex (Post 15757513)
Sucks for your friend, but glad she came out sort of OK. Too bad the spray didn't work as intended. I do hope they caught the assailant.

I believe they eventually did, but that particular scum bag rapped a number of other women that summer before he was caught.

Oh, one side note. she still carries pepper spray (I can't convince her to get a CHL), but she has no illusions that it is anything but a last ditch GTH effort, unlike the internet warrior from hawaii...

meanwhile 06-18-13 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CB HI (Post 15757331)
I have used pepper spray a couple of times on dogs. Worked well.

The guy you were strawman attacking was explaining the difference between that pepper spray and bear spray: please at least try to keep track before attacking people!


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