Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 06-13-13, 03:25 AM   #1
CB HI
Cycle Year Round
Thread Starter
 
CB HI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Honolulu, HI
Bikes:
Posts: 11,659
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
More kids attacking cyclist

This time it is in Washington DC.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/...b5a_story.html

Odd there are no discriptions of the kids in either the attack on the cyclist or the Metro train.
__________________
Land of the Free, Because of the Brave.
CB HI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-13, 06:31 AM   #2
Chris516
24-Speed Machine
 
Chris516's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Wash. Grove, MD
Bikes: 2003 Specialized Allez 24-Speed Road Bike
Posts: 6,054
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by CB HI View Post
This time it is in Washington DC.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/...b5a_story.html

Odd there are no descriptions of the kids in either the attack on the cyclist or the Metro train.
I know the cyclist in this incident would disagree with me. But at least it was a bunch of miscreant kids, instead of a drunk driver. There was a drunk driver who drove on to the W&OD bike path in Northern Virginia recently who intentionally ran into a cyclist, then was chased down by a bunch of other cyclists' and eventually arrested by police.

Last edited by Chris516; 06-13-13 at 03:08 PM.
Chris516 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-13, 07:12 AM   #3
Myosmith
Lover of Old Chrome Moly
 
Myosmith's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: NW Minnesota
Bikes:
Posts: 2,548
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris516 View Post
I know the cyclist in this incident would disagree with me. But at least it was a bunch of miscreant kids, instead of a drunk driver. There was a drunk driver who went drove on to the W&OD bike path in Northern Virginia recently who intentionally ran into a cyclist, then was chased down by a bunch of other cyclists' and eventually arrested by police.
Gotta disagree. I can't call these attackers "miscreants", they weren't stealing cigarettes or breaking windows. This was a group of up to a dozen young people, approximate age unspecified, that viciously attacked a man without provocation or apparent motive other than for the shear rush of the violence. Any time you have a man on the ground and repeatedly kick and punch him in the head IMHO it should be considered attempted homicide. Even a jr high age boy can kick more than hard enough to cause permanently disabling or fatal head injury and, on an adrenaline rush, is unlikely to posess the restraint or even the prerequisite knowledge to control how hard or even how many times they strike.

A physician speaking at an EMS conference few years ago did a case review of a teenage girl who became disabled after accidentally being kicked in the head during a soccer game. That was one accidental blow, during a sporting event, by another teenage girl. Now imagine the potential of repeated intentional targeted kicks by a pack of attackers.

Last edited by Myosmith; 06-13-13 at 07:23 AM.
Myosmith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-13, 07:29 AM   #4
UberGeek
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Buffalo, NY
Bikes: Schwinn Tourist (2010), Trek 6000 (1999)
Posts: 1,144
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris516 View Post
I know the cyclist in this incident would disagree with me. But at least it was a bunch of miscreant kids, instead of a drunk driver. There was a drunk driver who went drove on to the W&OD bike path in Northern Virginia recently who intentionally ran into a cyclist, then was chased down by a bunch of other cyclists' and eventually arrested by police.
They are both about the same. The cyclist here was luckily only one misplaced kick away from being just as dead as he would have been in a fatal vehicular collision.

And, cyclists do survive auto collisions as well, at times.
UberGeek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-13, 09:19 AM   #5
Brandonub
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Rockville, MD
Bikes: 2012 Cervelo R3 Team
Posts: 234
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I'm usually not all that interested in figuring out which sort of dangerous idiot is worse, but it seems pretty clear in this case - drunk driving is an act of spectacular neglect for others rather than an act of deliberate malice. When I'm judging someone's actions, I'm going to look more negatively on the people that cause harm to others for absolutely no reason than someone that makes a bad, neglectful decision.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CB HI View Post
Odd there are no discriptions of the kids in either the attack on the cyclist or the Metro train.
I'd wager I can guess correctly on the approximate ages, races, socioeconomic status, and general appearance of the assailants.
Brandonub is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-13, 09:38 AM   #6
Minstrel
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 11
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by CB HI View Post
Odd there are no discriptions of the kids in either the attack on the cyclist or the Metro train.
In my experience, statements like these are racist dog whistles intended to suggest that a) the suspects are <members of some racial minority or other> and, b) the "liberal media" is conspiring to hide how <members of some racial minority or other> are criminals.

But maybe I've been reading too many local newspaper website comment sections.
Minstrel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-13, 10:20 AM   #7
Matariki
Not quite there yet
 
Matariki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Monkey Bottom, NC
Bikes: A bunch of old steel bikes + an ICE trike
Posts: 1,001
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Cmdr. Andrew Solberg, head of the 5th Police District, called the assault isolated. He said officers patrol the trail on foot, bicycle and Segway. “I would like to reassure folks that the trail is very safe,”
Alternate reality?
Matariki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-13, 01:01 PM   #8
spivonious
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Lancaster, PA, USA
Bikes: 2012 Trek Allant, 2016 Bianchi Volpe Disc
Posts: 1,857
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Wow, real Clockwork Orange stuff.
spivonious is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-13, 03:50 PM   #9
UberGeek
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Buffalo, NY
Bikes: Schwinn Tourist (2010), Trek 6000 (1999)
Posts: 1,144
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by spivonious View Post
Wow, real Clockwork Orange stuff.
That's what I was thinking... Some good old ultra-violence.
UberGeek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-13, 04:03 PM   #10
Chris516
24-Speed Machine
 
Chris516's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Wash. Grove, MD
Bikes: 2003 Specialized Allez 24-Speed Road Bike
Posts: 6,054
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myosmith View Post
Gotta disagree. I can't call these attackers "miscreants", they weren't stealing cigarettes or breaking windows. This was a group of up to a dozen young people, approximate age unspecified, that viciously attacked a man without provocation or apparent motive other than for the shear rush of the violence. Any time you have a man on the ground and repeatedly kick and punch him in the head IMHO it should be considered attempted homicide. Even a jr high age boy can kick more than hard enough to cause permanently disabling or fatal head injury and, on an adrenaline rush, is unlikely to posess the restraint or even the prerequisite knowledge to control how hard or even how many times they strike.

A physician speaking at an EMS conference few years ago did a case review of a teenage girl who became disabled after accidentally being kicked in the head during a soccer game. That was one accidental blow, during a sporting event, by another teenage girl. Now imagine the potential of repeated intentional targeted kicks by a pack of attackers.
I referred to them as miscreants, for the very reason they didn't steal anything, when after the gang assault, they could have done so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by UberGeek View Post
They are both about the same. The cyclist here was luckily only one misplaced kick away from being just as dead as he would have been in a fatal vehicular collision.

And, cyclists do survive auto collisions as well, at times.
True
Chris516 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-13, 04:12 PM   #11
vol
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: east coast
Bikes:
Posts: 3,227
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Hmm, is subconscious jealousy a factor? Those who attack cyclists for no apparent reasons usually don't own or ride bikes themselves, and a man on the bike is likely to look happier than a pedestrian (even more than a driver)
vol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-13, 04:34 PM   #12
Chris516
24-Speed Machine
 
Chris516's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Wash. Grove, MD
Bikes: 2003 Specialized Allez 24-Speed Road Bike
Posts: 6,054
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by vol View Post
Hmm, is subconscious jealousy a factor? Those who attack cyclists for no apparent reasons usually don't own or ride bikes themselves, and a man on the bike is likely to look happier than a pedestrian (even more than a driver)
I don't see it as a jealousy factor. Because, If it was, I would think, they would have taken his bike, money, and keys. More like a bunch of kids that get a high from creating mayhem.
Chris516 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-13, 04:38 PM   #13
Brandonub
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Rockville, MD
Bikes: 2012 Cervelo R3 Team
Posts: 234
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by vol View Post
Hmm, is subconscious jealousy a factor? Those who attack cyclists for no apparent reasons usually don't own or ride bikes themselves, and a man on the bike is likely to look happier than a pedestrian (even more than a driver)
I think you're looking too deep. They're just worthless little scumbags that are amused by hurting other people. The same type of kids beat down pedestrians too.
Brandonub is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-13, 04:46 PM   #14
Essex
Senior Member
 
Essex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Northeast United States
Bikes: Tarmac, Focus Urban 8, Giant Hybrid
Posts: 1,146
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
These punks are just looking for trouble and taking it out on anything, or anyone they deem an easy target. With school out, no summer jobs and nothing of value about - these punks will do the next best thing - inflict hurt. Some solid policing, video cameras and time before a court judge and juvy will take some of these kids off the street. That said -these types of incidences indicate trouble with the social network in the DC Metro/Urban area.
Essex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-13, 07:32 PM   #15
CB HI
Cycle Year Round
Thread Starter
 
CB HI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Honolulu, HI
Bikes:
Posts: 11,659
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minstrel View Post
In my experience, statements like these are racist dog whistles intended to suggest that a) the suspects are <members of some racial minority or other> and, b) the "liberal media" is conspiring to hide how <members of some racial minority or other> are criminals.

But maybe I've been reading too many local newspaper website comment sections.
Then your experience is not worth crap. If I were currently riding that trail, I would want as detailed a description as possible, yes race, but also clothing, hair style, backpacks, any gang colors, etc.

Check the video in another story of the attack linked below. Whites, black and hispanics use this trail, so the attackers could have been any race. To me, it is raciest playing the PC card and not identifying the race of the kids that could have killed the cyclist.

http://www.myfoxdc.com/story/2257727...#axzz2W8XKLrPk

Another disturbing note in this second story is the issue that DC police have known this trail was not safe since March and will not get serious about fixing the problem until June 24. Yet the first story posted claims the trail is safe.
__________________
Land of the Free, Because of the Brave.

Last edited by CB HI; 06-13-13 at 07:59 PM. Reason: typo
CB HI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-13, 08:31 PM   #16
Chris516
24-Speed Machine
 
Chris516's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Wash. Grove, MD
Bikes: 2003 Specialized Allez 24-Speed Road Bike
Posts: 6,054
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
It is not a matter of racism. It is a matter of experience. My (ex)wife was living in the Wheaton-Glenmont area in the late 1980's with her parents', only a couple miles from where this took place. It was during the time of drugs being rampant in D.C.. Every time I went down there, I was thinking about how I would have felt safer in D.C., than I would in the Silver Spring/Wheaton/Glenmont area. I detested that area because it felt so unsafe.
Chris516 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-13, 08:50 PM   #17
3alarmer
Can'tre Member
 
3alarmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Big Tomato
Bikes: old ones
Posts: 13,666
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minstrel View Post
In my experience, statements like these are racist dog whistles intended to suggest that a) the suspects are <members of some racial minority or other> and, b) the "liberal media" is conspiring to hide how <members of some racial minority or other> are criminals.

But maybe I've been reading too many local newspaper website comment sections.
...........to pretend this is not about race is to deny a good part of the dynamic of living in this part of D.C.

You can call that statement racist if you wish to do so, I will not be offended.


On occasion, race is a genuine factor in various areas of the nation's capital. Pretending otherwise is down the rabbit hole.
3alarmer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-13, 09:06 PM   #18
UberGeek
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Buffalo, NY
Bikes: Schwinn Tourist (2010), Trek 6000 (1999)
Posts: 1,144
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Man, I ride past black people, white people, asian people, and hispanic people every day; without incident.

How am I supposed to quantify that?
UberGeek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-13, 09:18 PM   #19
Chris516
24-Speed Machine
 
Chris516's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Wash. Grove, MD
Bikes: 2003 Specialized Allez 24-Speed Road Bike
Posts: 6,054
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
...........to pretend this is not about race is to deny a good part of the dynamic of living in this part of D.C.

You can call that statement racist if you wish to do so, I will not be offended.


On occasion, race is a genuine factor in various areas of the nation's capital. Pretending otherwise is down the rabbit hole.
Race pursuant to the artilcle, doesn't mean diddly, even though, there is predominant racial makeup in that area. Because the article never says what race the kids were. So it is unfair to presume one race or another, of the kids.
Chris516 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-13, 09:21 PM   #20
curbtender
Senior Member
 
curbtender's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: SF Bay Area, East bay
Bikes: Marinoni, Kestral 200 2002 Trek 5200, KHS Flite, Koga Miyata, Schwinn Spitfire 5, Schwinn Speedster, Mondia Special, Univega Alpina
Posts: 3,822
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Really is a matter for the police. No one here will solve this. Sounds like someone got out of hand.
curbtender is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-13, 10:41 PM   #21
FBinNY 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
Posts: 29,283
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by CB HI View Post

Another disturbing note in this second story is the issue that DC police have known this trail was not safe since March and will not get serious about fixing the problem until June 24. Yet the first story posted claims the trail is safe.
The police aren't getting more serious about it at all, or they have been all along. The Ranger patrol starting 6/24 is a volunteer effort, not stepped up police presence.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site

An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.

“Never argue with an idiot. He will only bring you down to his level and beat you with experience.”, George Carlin

“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN

WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FBinNY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-13, 10:44 PM   #22
Chris516
24-Speed Machine
 
Chris516's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Wash. Grove, MD
Bikes: 2003 Specialized Allez 24-Speed Road Bike
Posts: 6,054
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by curbtender View Post
Really is a matter for the police. No one here will solve this. Sounds like someone got out of hand.
It is not uncommon in that region of the county for behavior like that to happen. So again, race makes no difference.
Chris516 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-13, 10:47 PM   #23
Chris516
24-Speed Machine
 
Chris516's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Wash. Grove, MD
Bikes: 2003 Specialized Allez 24-Speed Road Bike
Posts: 6,054
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
The police aren't getting more serious about it at all, or they have been all along. The Ranger patrol starting 6/24 is a volunteer effort, not stepped up police presence.
In that sense, it doesn't matter, if it is the MPD(DC), or the MCPD(MD). They are both lax when it comes to taking cyclists' safety seriously.
Chris516 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-13, 10:53 PM   #24
3alarmer
Can'tre Member
 
3alarmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Big Tomato
Bikes: old ones
Posts: 13,666
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
riiiight..........

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris516 View Post
Race pursuant to the artilcle, doesn't mean diddly, even though, there is predominant racial makeup in that area.
Because the article never says what race the kids were. So it is unfair to presume one race or another, of the kids.


http://projects.nytimes.com/census/2010/explorer

3alarmer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-13, 11:04 PM   #25
FBinNY 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
Posts: 29,283
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris516 View Post
In that sense, it doesn't matter, if it is the MPD(DC), or the MCPD(MD). They are both lax when it comes to taking cyclists' safety seriously.
This isn't a cyclist thing, it's a who's available thing. These kids would have attacked a pedestrian if one were handy.

Problem is that cyclists often ride solo in places that they wouldn't walk, but unfortunately aren't that much faster than pedestrians, and don't have locking doors or windows to roll up like motorists. That makes them nice targets for thugs. (I'm not saying cyclists are at fault here, just stating a fact).

Years ago when Central Park in NYC was a zoo, joggers knew to stay in groups, but many cyclists would ride alone, and became easy targets as they slowed down climbing the hill coming south from 110th street. In one incident, the police sent two undercovers on bikes, who were jumped and overwhelmed by a gang, losing both bikes and much more important both guns. Fortunately they weren't too badly hurt except for their pride.

Safety in parks and trails is a numbers game. Thugs like good odds, so 6 of them want to jump 1 victim. If their targets come out in larger numbers the thugs go look for easier pickings. Numbers is how we took back the parks in NYC, and ultimately it'll be numbers that secure these trails.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site

An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.

“Never argue with an idiot. He will only bring you down to his level and beat you with experience.”, George Carlin

“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN

WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FBinNY is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:49 PM.