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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by HawkOwl View Post
    Resurrected:

    When this came by the first time I was bothered by something but couldn't quite put my finger on it. Now I think I know so here is the question:

    Does age have anything to do with what a person Should Do about a dangerous driver?

    Personally, all the dangerous acts I've seen older drivers do I also seen with younger drivers. In fact, I'd say older drivers get much more attention from their family than young dangerous drivers. Family keeps an eye on the elders and tries to stop them from driving if they perceive the elder is dangerous. On the other hand numerous times a dangerous driver, for example drunk or impaired on other drug, is allowed to drive with no comment by the family.

    Seems to me a person should do the same thing for all dangerous drivers; get them off the road.
    I actually see something here I agree with; the trouble is, as possible as it may be to PROVE incapacity in the elderly, good luck with the younger set. As of now, STUPID is not an incapacity (as much as I wish it WAS....), nor is RECKLESS.

  2. #52
    Banned Bikepacker67's Avatar
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    I suggest any man under 25 be driven around by his girlfriend/SO.
    I was. No DUI's in my past.

    Besides, it gives you a chance to tune in the station, and roll a proper bone.

  3. #53
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    It's such a shame some elderly have to be this way. I truly hope the OP finds a way of convincing his parents to hang up the keys.

    Both dad and FIL dies suddenly in their early 70s and both mom and MIL voluntarily gave up their driving privileges so it was not an issue. It made things so much easier when they did this, the added responsibility of transporting them was difficult at times but the end result was much better than what it potentially could have been.

  4. #54
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    Grandfather was getting dementia, his reflexes had gone but her refused to stop driving.

    My Mother and Grandmother had been trying for years.

    One day we were all sitting in the living room. I tossed a ball at my grandfather, it hit him square in the head "What the hell was that?" he yells.

    "A kid you just ran over" was my reply.

    ...wasn't nice but it did work.
    "The world will end, not with a "bang" but with a "do'oh!""

  5. #55
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    This ix not a new subjet. In fact there are periodic "exposes" on the subject. Nothing new in this case.

    To me level of difficulty convincing a family member, any family member, to not drive has more to do with family relationships than anything else. Good relationships and taking care of the member's needs in a humanitarian way will succeed. In this way age is but one factor.

    Disparaging comments about a person's infirmities unless supported by factual data that shows they can't drive not only show the poster's biases, actions based on them are illegal.

    The real problem that deserves our full attention is dangerous drivers. I've been told that as many as 1/3 of all drivers on the road are unlicensed. Most have no insurance. But, people in general have no problem allowing these people to endanger others. These folks are prima facia dangerous because most have lost their license by their reckless actions. As long as we, as a society tolerate this cyclists, walkers and others will be injured and killed.
    It is better to smell the flowers than taste the roots.

  6. #56
    Senior Member Worknomore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HawkOwl View Post
    To me level of difficulty convincing a family member, any family member, to not drive has more to do with family relationships than anything else. Good relationships and taking care of the member's needs in a humanitarian way will succeed. In this way age is but one factor.
    .
    Have you had experience with an elderly family member who has developed dementia? I would have to guess not. If you have then perhaps you have had an easier go of it than I. I have had a wonderful relationship with my father my entire life. My father has worsening dementia. He is not the same person anymore. Reason and logic no longer matter. One moment he is fine and the next a raging 2 year old throwing a tantrum. Nothing was going to stop him from from driving except me jacking up his truck and removing the wheels.
    Litespeed Blue Ridge, Serotta Colorado CRL, Cannondale Delta-V, Bacchetta Ti-Aero

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by HawkOwl View Post
    This ix not a new subjet. In fact there are periodic "exposes" on the subject. Nothing new in this case.

    To me level of difficulty convincing a family member, any family member, to not drive has more to do with family relationships than anything else. Good relationships and taking care of the member's needs in a humanitarian way will succeed. In this way age is but one factor.

    Disparaging comments about a person's infirmities unless supported by factual data that shows they can't drive not only show the poster's biases, actions based on them are illegal.

    The real problem that deserves our full attention is dangerous drivers. I've been told that as many as 1/3 of all drivers on the road are unlicensed. Most have no insurance. But, people in general have no problem allowing these people to endanger others. These folks are prima facia dangerous because most have lost their license by their reckless actions. As long as we, as a society tolerate this cyclists, walkers and others will be injured and killed.
    Without discounting the many ways in which people choose to be hazards on the public right of way, the elderly pose a special problem amongst dangerous drivers. I'm referring to someone who has spent a lifetime being an adequate driver and does not willfully endanger other people. However, loss of vision is a slow process and the person experiencing it often doesn't realize what he/she isn't seeing. Talk to a few people after cataract surgery to see what I mean here; almost to a person they are amazed at all they had been missing. With reaction time differences the situation is even worse since most people rarely put their reactions to any real test and thus have no baseline against which to measure. Cognitive function decline also factors in here. So, from the perspective of a dangerous elderly driver, he/she is doing things the same as always (which was likely never great in the first place), and has no way to know about those three seconds that passed between the time a person of normal vision/reactions/cognitive function would have seen the cyclist/pedestrian/child chasing a ball and dealt with the situation and the time when he/she finally sees and recognizes the situation.

    Drunk drivers are a real problem. Sleep deprived drivers are a problem. Emotionally disturbed drivers are a problem. Aggressive drivers are a problem. Narcissistic drivers are a problem. None of that changes the fact that age brings its own impairment to driving and increases the danger. Stomping one's feet and insisting that people who's vision and other abilities are too diminished to safely drive should be allowed to continue to drive until we provide them with a chauffeur is to say we should have no standard for road usage other than the convenience of the most narcissistic amongst us.

    I do so wish the eldest amongst us would finally grow up. Pointing out that some other child is getting two desserts, or driving dangerously, does not mean we should ignore this growing problem.

  8. #58
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    I'm grown up now,I have responsibilities.....Making sure my parents are OK is one of them.....If I left it to the State,there would be a trail of death behind the car before something would change.
    Last edited by Booger1; 07-22-13 at 12:00 PM.
    Everything should be as simple as possible...But not more so.---Albert Einstein

  9. #59
    24-Speed Machine Chris516's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DX-MAN View Post
    I actually see something here I agree with; the trouble is, as possible as it may be to PROVE incapacity in the elderly, good luck with the younger set. As of now, STUPID is not an incapacity (as much as I wish it WAS....), nor is RECKLESS.
    So true!!! While it may be easier to remove the keys from the older generation. The younger generation is a whole 'nother 'ball of wax'. An online friend of mine in Canada got her drivers' license just a couple months' ago, even though she is 32. One day, she IM'ed me via her IPhone, while she was driving on the local highway. She was driving with the attitude of 'If something happens, oh well'. Thankfully nothing happened to her. But I told her about a driver that was decapitated in the U.S., as a result of their texting and, their car going under the back of an 18-Wheeler's trailer. While it is one thing that the trailer did not have the bars on the underside of the trailer, it further illustrated the dangers of texting while driving. Not just to those around the ignorant motorist that they might kill. But also to themselves.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by HawkOwl View Post
    Re: The elders driving across country. In the 50+ section lots of stories about older people and what the can do. Physical ability to ambulate has very little to do with safe driving. That people think it does illustrates the biases and bigotry disabled people have to put up with daily.

    Right now on the road between Anchorage and Fairbanks Alaska there are a group of hand cyclists doing a race . Bet they drive too.
    He said the elderly man had "a kink in his neck to see ahead of him", doesn't sound like he's doing much looking over his shoulder when changing lanes, or even looking completely left and right at intersections with ease.

    Safe driving isn't limited to your own driving practices, but encompasses the ability to react appropriately in unexpected situations; many disabled, elderly, and able-bodied drivers are capable of this, but not all are. A driver who mistakes a gas pedal for the brake, and not being able to react quickly enough to correct the error, is not a safe driver. A driver unable to avoid what should be near accidents, is not a safe driver. Having the ability to operate a car doesn't qualify someone as a safe driver; if that's the criteria, then as long as you can reach the pedals...

    Those hand-cyclists, contrary to your belief, are ambulatory...they're not bedridden. Try telling them they're not ambulatory because they're unable to walk, I'm sure you'll get an earful.
    Last edited by Bike Rat; 07-27-13 at 07:19 PM.
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