northernlights

Drier areas? I don't know why that would be a factor.

True. Road bikes are equivalent to crotch rocket motorcycles. They have similar crouched riding positions. A Ninja motorcycle for example would not be ideal for everyday transportation. A crotch rocket is designed for speed not comfort. Anyone who works in a motorcycle shop or a bicycle shop would say the same thing. For maximum comfort you want a cruiser type bike or something you can ride in an upright position, with wider handlebars and tires.

I-Like-To-Bike

Mundane? Reporting seeing "dudes in full kit on racefiets all over the place" in NL is equivalent to reporting that you saw the sun rising in the West.

FBinNY 

I don't know how it plays out with motorcycles, but try riding a bicycle 100 or more miles in an upright position, then tell me that this is more comfortable than the classic dropped bar position.

RobertHurst

Because in drier areas you don't even need to think about putting full fenders on your bike. A set of clip-on fenders will do the trick. Racing bikes don't have fender eyelets.



You are suffering under a lot of bike myths here.

On a road bike, you can sit up very straight, or get into an aerodynamic position, or several positions in between.

Cruiser-type bikes are only comfortable for short rides. Sitting up straight is only comfortable for a short time, because it puts almost all the weight on your butt. (That's why these bikes have giant, padded seats.) For real comfort, you need to stretch out on the bike, distributing the weight between the feet, hands and rear. You should be propping yourself up with the saddle, not putting your full weight on it. And aerodynamics or lack thereof has a direct relationship to the ease at which the bike can be propelled, and therefore to comfort. Same is true for bike weight and tire choice, etc.

People sitting straight up on super heavy and slow bikes, putting all their body weight on their most sensitive areas, and their whole body up like a sail to catch the wind -- for comfort??? Time to rethink that whole thing, people.

Bottom line, I find road bikes to be far more comfortable than so-called 'comfort bikes' or Dutch bikes. As far as I'm concerned, riding a 40-pound Dutch bike sucks most of the joy out of riding. I can barely stand it after riding racy bikes my whole life. Unless it's pouring rain or the roads are slop, then I'm happy to have a nice set of full fenders and don't care much about the other stuff.

I guess people haven't noticed that racing bikes are built for very, very long days in the saddle. They are absolutely built for comfort, as well as speed. If you want comfort for a longer ride, use a road bike and learn how to ride it. (Look at the pros position when they're just cruising along; they are not severely hunched over and straining, but completely relaxed.) The Dutch bike would be absolute torture in comparison.

Pedaleur

Chuckle. Now if we can just find a picture of someone suffering up a hill...

Jaywalk3r

For comfort, especially on long rides, I want to avoid distributing weight to my hands.

This is true with any (non-recumbent) bike, even upright bikes. Bikes have saddles, not seats. Much of the rider's weight should be supported by the pedals, whether the bike is a traditional Dutch city bike or the latest carbon road racing creation from your favorite sporty brand.

I feel the same way about road bikes, and find upright bikes to be much more comfortable and enjoyable to ride (albeit slower, due to decreased aerodynamics). My 29er provides a happy medium. I can get much more upright than with a road bike, but I can still take a pretty aerodynamic position when desired. For me, road bikes might have their advantages, but comfort, on any length of ride, isn't one of them. YMMV.

Pedaleur

Can we just change the title of this thread to, "You're Doing It Wrong"?

northernlights

Well then that would be another reason why you see very few road bikes in northern Europe where they experience a lot of rain. Holland (NL) gets about 220 days of rain a year. Road bikes don't have a place for putting fenders, racks, baskets, and so on. If you're using your bike for daily transport then you want to have a rack or a basket on it where you can put things like groceries. Dutch style bikes, hybrid bicycles are very versatile and practical for everyday use because they allow you to do all these different things. In Holland and Denmark you even see a lot of bikes with bicycle baby seats on them. But a road bike doesn't let you do any of these things because they are designed for just one purpose, which is for racing and maximum speed in dry weather.

Juha

I haven't done 100 milers, but I've ridden about 120 kms both on a hybrid towing a sea kayak on a trailer, and on a CX bike with minimal (for me) gear and dropped bars. Nothing wrong with either of them. Tell Heinz Stucke his umpteen Ks of kilometers have been ridden in uncomfortable positions.

This is like arguing which is better, bent or upright bike, Campy or Shimano, steel or alu or...

--J

spare_wheel

My response to your post is a big fat: MEH.

I am an EU citizen several times over and I can't stand living in Europe because its, for the most part, the pits when it comes to living sustainably. Moreover, while your particular city or neighborhood may suck, mine does not. Over 50% of my neighbors commute by bike and something approaching 25% of my census tract commutes by bike. And when I say commute by bike I mean ACS-adjusted mode share that only counts trips of those who use cycling as their PRIMARY transportation mode.

RobertHurst

I'm one of those guys who can ride all day with no hands, going around corners and such. I don't recommend it for a long ride. Putting some of the weight on the hands is much more comfortable, not to mention a lot easier.

Yes and the rest of the weight should be distributed between the rear and the hands. But Dutch bikes and 'comfort bikes' tend to have very wide cushy seats which actually makes it more difficult to use the seat properly. Good luck to you not distributing weight to the hands but somehow not distributing too much to your rear. It doesn't really work like that. The most comfortable riding position is a bit more stretched out than the masses realize.

You are talking about different hand heights, nothing else. Just put riser bars on a road bike and you'll have the low rolling resistance of a road machine with the ill-advised hand position that you love.

RobertHurst

With the addition of one Ortlieb backpack it sure does. And in serious style too.

spare_wheel

Not only are drop-bar road bikes more comfortable when riding for long periods but they hold up to daily riding just fine. I sold a 20+ year old road bike for 500 and change a few years ago.

spare_wheel

Have you seen the chrome yalta and night? The fabric is black by day but impregnated with greyish reflective threads that light up like a mofo at night.

https://www.chromeindustries.com/bags/yalta-night
https://www.chromeindustries.com/bags/citizen-night

I've never looked better on my nude carbon fiber transportation bikes!

northernlights

I can't imagine riding any kind of bike for that long. I think after a hundred miles you're going to be sore no matter what kind of bike you're on. I don't know how they do it in the Tour de France. They're obviously highly-conditioned but still, doing a hundred miles a day, everyday for many days on a road bike (or any bike) almost seems like a form of torture.

spare_wheel

Your judgemental little fantasy is so very wrong:

https://bikeportland.org/2013/05/02/p...r-avenue-86270
https://bikeportland.org/2013/01/23/p...s-circle-82171
https://bikeportland.org/2012/10/12/p...corridor-78788
https://bikeportland.org/2012/09/14/p...ch-curve-77332
https://bikeportland.org/2012/01/30/p...splanade-66168
https://bikeportland.org/2012/04/11/p...k-avenue-70200

skijor

My Vaya does. I also routinely ride it longer distances. And I love it because it is so comfortable and versatile (racks, fenders, bags, etc...or nothing at all).
Visit the Utility forum and you'll realize the Vaya is not that unique. The US cycling industry is full of capable bikes that are also reasonable choices for longer distance as well, even though they are not as lightweight as their CF cousins. Don't get me wrong. I admire the Dutch bikes too. We just accomplish the same tasks differently. There doesn't have to be one solution.

Jaywalk3r

I can also ride a bike without hands. As a kid, I did it a lot. As an adult, not so much. I prefer the stability of three points of contact. I also prefer having immediate access to my front brake. Somewhere along the line, I was living in a jurisdiction that required at least one hand on the handlebar at all times. That's pretty much how I ride on the street.


Ideally, for comfort, the hands are used for stability rather than bearing weight. Riding upright has the additional benefit of taking advantage of the spine's natural shock absorbing properties. I suppose many American riders might find such a non-aggressive posture unsatisfying, given the general lack of consideration bikes are given in transportation planning.

Saddle preference is a very personal thing on any kind of bike. Find what works best for you, just like you would on any other bike.

It's riding a bike, not practicing yoga. The "masses" seem to be a bit more knowledgeable than you.

Uh … thanks but no. I prefer the clearance for fenders and wider, more comfortable tires (which provide much lower rolling resistance in the real-world than hard skinny tires). For a commuting bike (as opposed to a recreational bike), bearing little, if any, weight on the hands eliminates the need for multiple hand positions.

For an awful lot of people out there, the difference in the time it takes to ride to school or work at 12 mph or at 22 mph isn't enough to impact their day one way or the other. Not everyone wants to turn their commute into a workout. Fortunately, there are bikes designed for those people. Unfortunately, they aren't widely available in the USA. Yet, it seems pretty clear that, in places where bicycles have a high modal share, comfortable upright bikes are quite popular. I seriously doubt that your personal knowledge of transportation cycling exceeds that of the collective populations of such places.

Jaywalk3r

??? Your links support, not contradict, my post. Most of those people were riding in normal street clothes. Many of the ones who weren't appeared to be riding recreationally.

The bikes of the commuters were mostly, well, relatively practical considering what's widely available in the USA.

spare_wheel

Yes, cycling specific jackets, shoes, pants, shorts, and tights are "normal" clothes in Portland.

See the contrast with these:

https://bikeportland.org/2013/05/28/p...penhagen-87422

spare_wheel

Jaywalk3r

Most of the obvious commuters were not wearing cycling specific clothing.

Jaywalk3r

You do realize that my comment was topical, right?

FBinNY 

That might be the problem.

You can't IMAGINE riding 100 miles, so you project what it might be like based on your limited experience. But the fact is that a great many have ridden 100 miles at a stretch, and don't have to imagine. Many of us have ridden much more than that, or have ridden 100+ miles per day over multiple days, and no we do not get sore. My personal record is riding 24hours at a single stretch covering shy of 380 miles miles, and still no soreness. (or maybe I was just too sleepy to notice).

The problem with the Dutchman's perspective (and yours) is that it's based on a limited view of what cycling is about. This is not a homogenous sport, folks cycle all kinds of ways and for all kinds of reasons, and just about the only thing cyclists have in common is that they ride two wheeled vehicles (and even that isn't true).

northernlights

The main thing about handlebars is the width. Wider handlebars provide greater comfort and steering control. Road bikes have very narrow handlebars. Doesn't matter if you're in the drop position or the raised position; the width of the handlebar is the same. You're sacrificing some comfort and control on the road bike for greater aerodynamics. The closer your arms are together the less wind resistance you have. Flat handlebars are more comfortable because they are wider. Same with tires. Wider non-knobby tires provide more suspension and greater comfort than narrow road bike tires.

However, I agree that wider seats do not provide greater comfort. That is a common misconception. Narrower is better, when it comes to bike seats. Wider seats rub against the inside of your legs and interfere with pedaling motion, which tires you out more quickly. You also want the seat to be perfectly level. But I guess that's the advantage of buying from a bike shop as opposed to buying used or from a department store. The bike shop people are generally very knowledgeable and can tell you these things.