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  1. #451
    Cycle Year Round CB HI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dynodonn View Post
    Missouri, lowest point 230ft above sea level, highest point 1772 ft above sea level, average height above sea level, 800 ft. If you needed to know.
    I was trying to be slightly kind to the gentleman.
    Land of the Free, Because of the Brave.

  2. #452
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Gibson View Post
    Granted, but our 340 million people are distributed over a country which stretches over 3000 miles so there are tens of thousands of population centers of people who may/or may not limit their travel to short distances. Construction of a national integrated transportation system would involve essentially infinite amount of funding.
    Are you seriously proposing a national bicycle network to connect these tens of thousands of population centers of people?
    Who besides a few day dreamers with absolutely no standing anywhere is seriously discussing such a bicycle network?
    If you actually mean bicycle friendly access to/use of existing roads and highways throughout the U.S. then there might be something to discuss.

  3. #453
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertHurst View Post
    Standing on the pedals does help. It is a very useful technique. You asked about it. Now you act like my explanation is some sort of personal attack. Well, whatever.
    Not personal, only I believe you are repeating "conventional wisdom" about bicycle "skills" that you believe and therefore needs no satisfactory explanation. You have not provided a satisfactory explanation about how I or any other transportational cyclist will benefit by standing on the pedals more often while riding in a city on a bike with adequate gearing.

    Citing of laboratory tests and theoretical stopping powers when shifting body weight around employed in the split second of an emergency stop draw nothing but impersonal laffs and yawns from me.

  4. #454
    Formerly Known as Newbie Juha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedaleur View Post
    Sweet. Not that I don't believe it, but I'd love to see a picture.
    Of course.

    Here's the rig:

    Tauko (0777).jpg

    The trailer is a Trayak from Tony's Trailers. It's the single deck version, they make double or even triple deckers as well.

    --J
    To err is human. To moo is bovine.

    Who is this General Failure anyway, and why is he reading my drive?


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  5. #455
    Je pose, donc je suis.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juha View Post
    Of course.

    Here's the rig:

    Tauko (0777).jpg

    The trailer is a Trayak from Tony's Trailers. It's the single deck version, they make double or even triple deckers as well.

    --J
    Sweet.

    Triple decker? Luckily gravity is a conservative force. Otherwise, I'd hate to climb hills with that.

  6. #456
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    Quote Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
    Not personal, only I believe you are repeating "conventional wisdom" about bicycle "skills" that you believe and therefore needs no satisfactory explanation. You have not provided a satisfactory explanation about how I or any other transportational cyclist will benefit by standing on the pedals more often while riding in a city on a bike with adequate gearing.
    I believe I did. Standing on the pedals occasionally will make your ride easier and more comfortable, for the reasons I already stated. It's easier to turn the pedals, and you get more low-speed control. More control, period.


    Quote Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
    Citing of laboratory tests and theoretical stopping powers when shifting body weight around employed in the split second of an emergency stop draw nothing but impersonal laffs and yawns from me.
    I didn't mention anything about laboratory tests. It only requires a rudimentary physical experiment to prove that stopping a bike is much easier when your weight's not on the seat. As far as low-speed control goes, simply try to track stand while seated versus while standing and the difference is obvious. (Imagine trying to balance a tall broom on your hand versus a very short one.)

    I'm sure you don't "need" the advantages it brings, because you've got it all figured out and you're doing just fine thank-you-very-much, but the fact remains that standing up in certain situations makes bicycling a lot easier and more comfortable.
    Last edited by RobertHurst; 07-11-13 at 01:04 PM.

  7. #457
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juha View Post
    Here's the rig:

    Tauko (0777).jpg
    Totally awesome, man.
    My speculation was that it applies to some degree in cycling, and I used the previous proof as my reasoning, but I can't prove how exactly it applies to it and to what degree. That, I have admitted, is speculation based on reasoning, but not at this point provable.

  8. #458
    genec genec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
    Are you seriously proposing a national bicycle network to connect these tens of thousands of population centers of people?
    Who besides a few day dreamers with absolutely no standing anywhere is seriously discussing such a bicycle network?
    If you actually mean bicycle friendly access to/use of existing roads and highways throughout the U.S. then there might be something to discuss.
    +100

  9. #459
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    Quote Originally Posted by genec View Post
    Here, I'll say it. I don't bike commute any more because it is too dangerous. I swim a mile in the ocean each day, so it is NOT about laziness for me. It IS about riding a bike on high speed arterial roads that are filled with cell phone using drivers that DO NOT pay attention. I bike in other safer areas, but I no longer bike commute daily.

    I have bike commuted for nearly 30 years, longer if you consider my cycling to school as a young lad. I have done long distance tours. I am a very experienced cyclist. But the location of my office in amongst several high speed (50MPH) wide arterial roads and several recent close calls with cell phone idiots has changed my mind.

    The road speeds are too high, there are no escape areas due to curbs and walls, and drivers are too aggressive and do not pay attention. (poor traffic layout causes high frustration in the motorists and they get very aggressive trying to go home) Experienced cyclists have been killed on my routes in recent years; it just adds up to too much risk.

    A bike boulevard or off road path would make the difference for me... heck, a slower street would make a difference.

    I have showers and inside bike racks at work. The ONLY reason I do not ride there is the due to the layout of the roads and traffic.

    Oh and I am not alone in thinking this... there are other cyclists at my office that will not bike commute due to the traffic conditions... it is too autocentric.
    I'll cede that there are some areas that are completely hostile to cycling, in all regards.

    However, those areas, are, by and large, minimal when it comes to the vast majority of people deciding not to cycle more. It usually works out to just laziness.

    The two largest cities in NYS, both of which are in the process of building more cycle facilities. And both have a mode share of under 2%. Neither are close to even being as hostile as your area. My city doesn't even have nearly as much infra as say, NYC, and it's almost a dream to cycle here.

  10. #460
    genec genec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UberGeek View Post
    I'll cede that there are some areas that are completely hostile to cycling, in all regards.

    However, those areas, are, by and large, minimal when it comes to the vast majority of people deciding not to cycle more. It usually works out to just laziness.

    The two largest cities in NYS, both of which are in the process of building more cycle facilities. And both have a mode share of under 2%. Neither are close to even being as hostile as your area. My city doesn't even have nearly as much infra as say, NYC, and it's almost a dream to cycle here.
    Oh I fully agree... people rationalize that they have spent "good money" for their "rolling couches" and have a hard time pulling the bike out of the garage, putting air in the tires and then climbing aboard, especially when they know how much they "hate" encountering cyclists out on the road. The mentality is a negative circle; they end up reinforcing their laziness with justification about how bad cycling is and thus make cycling bad for others by driving in an aggressive manner.

    Now that said and aside... the cool thing for me is I keep a boat in an area that is best reached by bike... there are good paths that parallel the high speed arterial road and there are actually nice bike path short cuts around some connecting traffic loops that are something of a pain to drive... so my incentive to bike is further increased by the really poor motor vehicle layout in that area, and the pretty good paths. Too bad that treatment only occurs in a small part of town... as always, tons of money goes into anything for motor vehicles while ignoring the obvious small improvements for cyclists.
    Last edited by genec; 07-16-13 at 09:49 AM.

  11. #461
    genec genec's Avatar
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    BTW one thing I clearly noticed while in Oulu Finland is that cyclists are given routes with priority over motorists... motorists may have to drive a bit further, but golly gee, just hold that gas pedal a bit longer and you are there. That "priority" is just the opposite in America... the shortest most direct routes go to motorists, cyclists rarely get a shortcut (oh it does happen, but it is rare). Laws also favor the motor vehicle over cyclists, as do road improvements. One thing I have noticed over the years is a steady raising of speeds on the same old streets... I can see this as old speed limits still show as faded paint on some streets... so where a street was once 35, it may now be 45; where once it was 45, now 55. And while indeed cars have become safer through the use of airbags and antilock brakes and crumple zones... nothing has improved the general motorist.

    Now this is not to say that everywhere this condition exists... but simply this is the case in most places. There are improvements that "give back" to peds and cyclists... such as traffic calming, roundabouts and all light reds that allow for full crossing phases for peds and cyclists. And of course there are the general improvements in places like NYC... but these things are slow in coming. Motorists still have abundant parking (cyclists have to hunt for a bare sign post), motorists get speed increases (mentioned above) and funding for road improvements tend to focus on the motor vehicle.

  12. #462
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaywalk3r View Post
    Fair point, but wholly irrelevant with respect to why total elevation climbed is a meaningless statistic
    Just wanted to point out that the Tour de France today is doing Alp d'Huez twice. Which, by your logic, makes it a sprint stage. Can't wait to see Cavendish take the stage!
    My speculation was that it applies to some degree in cycling, and I used the previous proof as my reasoning, but I can't prove how exactly it applies to it and to what degree. That, I have admitted, is speculation based on reasoning, but not at this point provable.

  13. #463
    Cycle Year Round CB HI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by corvuscorvax View Post
    Just wanted to point out that the Tour de France today is doing Alp d'Huez twice. Which, by your logic, makes it a sprint stage. Can't wait to see Cavendish take the stage!
    Land of the Free, Because of the Brave.

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