randya

Ignore roughstuff and try these links instead:
https://www.critical-mass.org/
https://criticalmassrides.info/

williamw

Roughstuff -- Don't make silly generalizations about critical mass based upon my website. It's a completely biased source. It never claimed to speak for CM. It doesn't represent it. CM doesn't have any one purpose. You said yourself that CM is not about anything, so don't even bring up mantras.

I'll hold my tongue. I might start internet-shouting in all caps. Arguing about critical mass is super boring.

qmsdc15

Man. that is so wrong! I feel really bad, I have advocated for such a "courteous mass" on this forum and said I would do that but I never did it. I just was out of town for the last two CM rides in DC that I heard about or was working (inauguration). Because you didn't break the law, you are at the back. They cut you off from the herd like stray cattle and brand you with criminal charges. You have a great case. DC had to pay big bucks to protesters illegally arrested. You were among other bikes, so what? There were a lot of cars around too, right? Were they cited as part of the parade? What's up with operating your vehicle in heavy traffic? When should that be allowed? America's freedom is a joke. Not a funny one.

qmsdc15

Oh yeah, they are up to something! Very suspicious indeed!

JohnBrooking

Two questions:

1. nycm'er, I'm not trying to be critical (so to speak), but I have to question that first you said you were standing in the middle of the intersection, but then later you said you were not blocking traffic. How would standing in the middle of the intersection not block traffic? (I know that's not what they charged you with, but it just seems inconistent.)
2. As a general approach, you and the group might consider looking up the ordinance on what constitutes a parade, just so you know what legal grounds you are really on here. The cops obviously had their instructions, but a judge might maybe be more sympathetic if you showed you know the code and didn't feel you were contravening it. Maybe.

randya

If you've ever rolled through a stop sign, you have no business being critical. Come on, yes or no: dead-stop track stand or foot-down stop at every stop sign you've ever come to. That's the standard the cops hold you to on Critical Mass. The parading without a permit thing is even more over-the-top.

Confidential to all you NYC massers: Portland has tried 'courteous mass' for the last 2.5 years and the cops are still MFs. Don't waste your time...

ultra-g

I think I remember in the NYS DMV manual it says something like if you impede the flow of traffic, it is a violation.

So basically, the NYPD can charge the CM folks for impeding the flow of traffic, plus give em another ticket for "Blocking the Box" which I know happens when you got a mass of bikers trying to stay in a tight pack and make the light.

They can also charge most of the CM people for not having reflectors or mirrors or even some for not having front and rear lights on their bikes after dark... all of which are against the law in NYS.

They just happen to pick Parading without a license because it's the easiest to charge a large group with.


If you make yourself a target for arrest, you're going to be arrested. (meaning... the Cops view the CM folks as activists practicing civil disobedience, who are looking to be arrested so they can brag about it 20 years from now to their kids... so the cops oblige them).

JohnBrooking

I was just suggesting that the more you know about what they are charging you with, the better you can argue it in both a court of law and the court of public opinion. But maybe that's naive.

randya, I specifically said I was not trying to be critical of nycm'er. Meaning I wasn't saying it to put him down, but to point out an inconsistency in what he said. I wasn't trying to imply anything by it.

randya

'The Man' is afraid of the power of Critical Mass so he makes it his business to suppress it...

manboy

On a lighter note...

There was a very small Critical Mass in Williamsburg. The only police officer who spoke to us could barely keep from cracking up about the number of phone calls about annoying cyclists.

"Oh no cyclists in the street THE SKY IS FALLING!!!"

Miracle Whip

Didn't we share a spliff at the 68 convention in Chicago?

vtjim

...depends on how they were bicycling.

(backing slowly away from thread)

nycm'er

JohnB, No sweat, I said I couldn't (and didn't) go into details (my inlaws are here). But I will try to quickly explain. My bud and I were 2/3rds back in the pack. the light at 17th and 5th was red. (we were on 17th) we waited, pulled to the side to let the last 1/3rd eek by. The light turns, a Cop Explorer or Expedition begins whoop whooping turning north on 5th (strange, wrong way) We proceed into the block and my friend who was in front gets run into by 2 to 3 scooter cops. And I really mean run into. So as about 20 scooter cops descend on the intersection and block the 6 or so of us, I stopped, and waited, because, I knew my ride was over one block in. The cops really busted the ones who obeyed the light. Does that make sense? I put my foot down once the cavalry rode in. I was not going to run, I had done nothing wrong. My cop then came up to me and collared me. From the light turning to me stopping was maybe 8 seconds. There were so many cops there was no traffic near us anyway.
2nd point: the processing/parading point is under debate in the courts now, I really did ask the community outreach cops what the number was, others did too, no cops know. The cops who arrested us were told to arrest bikers, not arrest 2 or 3 or 12 riding together. I am not sure where the parading thing is going to go.
Lastly what ultra and roughstuff are saying I take issue with, esp. with this political climate. I was really not looking to get arrested. It wastes my time and cop's time, I didn't want to have anything to do with it. Now that I have parading without a permit, (which to me sounds like me walking and banging symbols in the street,) I'll be proud. But what is a target for arrest? And isn't that changing everyday? Changing with political whim? What Rough said is what the Fed Judge said in the first case of this issue. The Judge pointed out: This has been happening on schedule for 8 years in NYC, why now does the NYPD have a problem with it?
I am a freelancer and I have certain "societal" privileges and I believe what is happening is wrong, so I didn't and won't run and hide from the government and police force that is supposed to protect me. I was arrested under a law that the Arresting officers were not even clear on. I know people disagree with CM or (fill in cause here), but what if this gov't was coming after what you believed in?

Roughstuff

Yup. Its called a work-to-rule action. Its an old union tactic, and back in the days when it was used against those terrible corporate fat cats, it brought production to a standstill. Interesting to see the target reversed.

roughstuff

erraticrider

hehe... what a good idea roughie has here. You NYC Critical Mass riders should advertise your next CM ride as a "CM Group Ride" and then watch to see how the cops have to squirm to explain why arresting you is not selective prosecution and why they do not take similar enforcement action against the other "group rides" organized regularly in NYC.

Roughstuff

Yikes erratic..i dunno about that! They would probably argue it was now a 'conspiracy' and prosecute you under RICO or something like that....

roughstuff

williamw

Roughstuff -- you're bringing up irreverent points attacking critical mass without making a specific argument. I'd like to hear a complete thought sometime.

Erraticrider -- it doesn't matter how it's phrased. Any group ride starting in union square on the last friday of the month is going to be followed by the police. If the start location was changed periodically, there would probably be less interference.

Roughstuff

You are correct, williamw, but the thing is, there are aspects of critical mass I agree with, and there are aspects with which I do not. Thus I seem to be jumping around on the issue (which I am, in fact). If you ask me for a summary opinion on CM, yes, I think its pretty much useless.

roughstuff

erraticrider

It was your idea.

erraticrider

Ah, but at some point they will cross the line and conduct a raid that cannot be supported in court and then you can slap them with a damage suit.

BuskerBiker

I was one of the Beaver Cleaver types to get pinched Friday night. The discussion on this indymedia page is worth reading.

https://nyc.indymedia.org/feature/dis...2561/index.php

williamw

I can understand that. I don't think it produces much in the way of policy changes, nor do i ever think my participation will be the tipping point. But the benefits of participating in it are greater than the costs (for me). It's mostly a private and psychological benefit I get (sense of duty, seeing friends, meeting new bikers in the city, having fun, comraderie, etc.). The most significant result I see with Critical Mass is bringing a whole lot of bicyclists together.

CPcyclist

Cars are parading to then right. I mean if a group of bikes is a parade then a group of cars is to. This padading w/o a permite sound like total crap to me. IMO I think the Cop (pigs) are trying to get more revenue coming in they see cyclist as easy targets. How much did the city have to pay to secure the RNC on the taxpayer bill? Sounds like the mid-end of the month speed traps for cars around here.

BuskerBiker

I met you in the klink Friday. Are we ever going to have dinner or did you just want me for hoosgow sex? You surly riders are all the same.

brokenrobot

Trouble is, the code doesn't specify. The judges have also been remarkably sympathetic - it's just that the polie have repeatedly refused to obey the courts, so we keep getting arrested anyway!