bshanteau

As a traffic engineer who is also a bicycling advocate, I've noticed that the "Keep Right Except to Pass" and "Slower Traffic Keep Right" signs do not clarify the meaning of slow driver law/slow vehicle law (SDL/SVL) laws. The problem is that not many people know what "Keep Right" means. When applied to a slower car or motorcycle, people intuitively sense that it means the right-hand lane, but when applied to a bicycle, they think it means the right edge of the right-hand lane.

In those states with only the unlaned road version of the SDL/SVL law, the correct sign is "Keep Right Except to Pass."

In the those states where the SDL/SVL law addresses both laned and unlaned roads (as in the Uniform Vehicle Code), the correct message on laned roads is "Slower Traffic Use Right Lane." Traffic engineers, though, have chosen to use the ambiguous "Slower Traffic Keep Right" instead, which misinforms the public on what the underlying law is (and leads to things like the LAB Where to Ride video proclaiming, "Slower traffic should keep to the right, on that we all agree").

Here is what the MUTCD says about the two signs. Notice that the signs are to be used only on multilane roads (sidestepping the question of whether there is a right-hand lane on a 2-lane road): https://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/kno_2009r1r2.htm

===
Section 2B.30 KEEP RIGHT EXCEPT TO PASS Sign (R4-16) and SLOWER TRAFFIC KEEP RIGHT Sign (R4-3)

Option:
The KEEP RIGHT EXCEPT TO PASS (R4-16) sign (see Figure 2B-10) may be used on multilane roadways to direct drivers to stay in the right-hand lane except when they are passing another vehicle.

Guidance:
If used, the KEEP RIGHT EXCEPT TO PASS sign should be installed just beyond the beginning of a multilane roadway and at selected locations along multilane roadways for additional emphasis.

Option:
The SLOWER TRAFFIC KEEP RIGHT (R4-3) sign (see Figure 2B-10) may be used on multilane roadways to reduce unnecessary lane changing.

Guidance:
If used, the SLOWER TRAFFIC KEEP RIGHT sign should be installed just beyond the beginning of a multilane pavement, and at selected locations where there is a tendency on the part of some road users to drive in the left-hand lane (or lanes) below the normal speed of traffic. This sign should not be used on the approach to an interchange or through an interchange area.
===

Just because a bicycle is narrow and usually slower than motor vehicles does not mean that it has to be ridden at the right edge of the right-hand lane.

Fargo Wolf

The signs actually have nothing to do with cyclists really. Basically, slower drivers are SUPPOSED to keep to the right lane on a multi lane roadway, unless they are overtaking. Sadly, many slower drivers "camp" in the left (passing) lane... These signs are fairly common in the province of BC, where I live.

spivonious

I've never interpreted those signs as applying to cyclists. It's all about staying out of the left lane on multi-lane roads unless you're actively passing.

Actually, FRAP law means just that, unless the right edge is deemed impassable/unsafe by the cyclist.

bshanteau

But when one of the exceptions to the FRAP law applies, such as when the lane is "too narrow for a bicycle and a vehicle to travel safely side by side", what does "Slower Traffic Keep Right" mean for bicyclists?

CommuteCommando

I see the "...Except to Pass" sign being a good choice on older four lane highways like I 15 between Barstow and Vegas. Pairs of knuckle heads blocking both lanes at 55 mph is frustrating to say the least.

My favorite it this one, on Pacific St in Oceanside CA.

<Dang Google image is out of date-It now says "Bicycles May Use Full lane" about the same size as the No Parking sign in the image. There are "Sharrows too.>

work4bike

It means that cars going the speedlimit or no more than 5mph faster than posted speedlimit must stay in the right lane; at least that's been my experience

dpeters11

Right, but there are so many cases where the right edge can be deemed unsafe by the cyclist that we really should just use the full lane most of the time.

west coast girl

In Washington State, more specifically the greater Seattle area, "Slower traffic keep right", at least when it comes to auto traffic, means the slowest drivers move over to the left lane and never leave it, regardless of how many people pass you on the right. It's epidemic here.

bshanteau

OK, we all agree that slower motorists are supposed to use the right lane but often don't.

But how do the signs apply to bicyclists? Specifically when one of the exceptions to the FRAP applies?

west coast girl

It doesn't. That's why I said as it applies to cars. Jeeze, lighten up a bit.

bshanteau

Huh? Are you saying that the signs apply only to motorists and not bicyclists?

But they do.

In effect, traffic law says that when one of the exceptions to the FRAP law applies, bicyclists have the same rights and duties as drivers of vehicles as far as the rules of the road are concerned (except for those provisions that can have no application).

genec

No, he has a good point... do traffic signs apply to all traffic, and if not, why not? Certainly cyclists must obey stop and yield signs... so how does this become a "car only" sign.

BTW this is also why I want to see "LANE ENDS" signs for when Bike lanes end... I will be moving left in such a situation... do motorists not need to know that?

FenderTL5

On my route(s) there are signs marking when the Bike lane ends.
[One example can be seen in this google maps shot https://maps.google.com/maps?q=sawye...p=12,37.3,,0,0 ]

OPINION
Bicycles are under the requirement to ride FRAP (with the given exceptions) all the time. I think of those signs as a reminder to motorist that they are under FRAP rules on those roads. As a cyclist, i treat them more as informational the same way I do when I see "Share the Road" signs. Those conditions apply for "me" all the time, so therefore are of no consequence. The sign is more awareness for the motorist - IMHO.

work4bike

I agree, only applies to cars. They can't have signs to cover every law/rules of the road. For instance, those signs in the OP also don't apply to large commercial vehicles, because there are separate and specific rules for them, you just can't make a sign for every special circumstance; an example:

Excerpt:

"California lawmakers and traffic officials classify highway lanes by speed to encourage the safe and efficient flow of traffic. Typically, slower vehicles are restricted to the far-right lane, allowing the lanes to the left to be used for passing. Due to their height, length and weight, California law requires big rig trucks, commonly called "eighteen-wheelers" or tractor-trailers, to travel slower than passenger vehicles. As a result, big rig operators are limited to lanes specified or intended for slower vehicles."

Read more: https://www.ehow.com/info_10045333_pa...#ixzz2cp2kvPpF

Just like there are separate/special FRAP rules for us. It really isn't that complicated you all, lighten up a bit

buzzman

OK, I'll bite.

Sign 1- KEEP RIGHT EXCEPT TO PASS- as a bicyclist how does this apply to me? Stay on the right side of the road unless I am moving at a speed suffient to pass a vehicle in front of me, which is traveling in the right hand lane. This is rare for me on the bike on most roads where I have seen this sign but I actually can think of times I might be inclined to move left to pass.

For example: A) On long steep mountain descents with smooth roads, at least two lanes in both directions and clear sight lines where I might approach the speed limit. Often these occur in tourist locations where there are overlooks and rest areas that slow moving recreational trailers or tourists are pulling in or out of or moving slowly in the right lane for the view. B) On wide, flat, open roads in farm country where there is slow moving farm machinery I would move into the left lane to pass the vehicle and then move back to the right.


Sign 2- SLOWER TRAFFIC KEEP RIGHT- I do this anyway but the times I've seen this sign is often on roads with a steep and steady climb and often a "climbing lane" for slower traffic. If there is no rideable shoulder on a road like this I take the climbing lane and get right into the lane if need be and sight lines permit.

And, I agree, lighten up, these signs are seldom intended for cyclists because not many of us can accelerate to the speeds necessary to move in and out of passing lanes except in specific circumstances. So, for me, and obviously many others, they are not a big deal.

bshanteau

How about if you're riding a bicycle on flat ground on a 4-lane street (2 each direction) with 12' lanes (which is too narrow for a bicycle and a vehicle to travel safely side by side) and a speed limit of, say, 35 mph. With either sign, the driver of a car going 30 would be required to drive in the right lane, right? But where is a bicyclist who is going 15 mph supposed to ride? Is just being in the right-hand lane OK or must he/she be at the right edge of the right-hand lane or on the paved shoulder?

genec

We have those signs too... however they are not applied in the same manner as your sign. The sign on your road actually makes sense... it is a sign that tells of a condition about to happen. Here we see such signs right at the location where the bike lane ends... so you have no merge area or warning that the condition is about to change. I actually had to go down the street a bit to see where the BL ended in your example, which shows your sign is a warning sign of an impending condition. Also I noticed the "share the road" sign in your link... which is informational for the most part, and which motorists seem to take as a direction that cyclists have to share the road, but drivers do not.

Here is the kind of nonsense I see around here: https://goo.gl/maps/M7dcG Notice no warning... the BL just ends... this is on a 50MPH road... so now as a cyclist, unless you know this road well, are suddenly dumped into a narrow lane and have to negotiate with 50MPH MV traffic and get them to share the lane.

I went to the city road engineers and asked WTF, why is it that motorists are given warning that a lane ends but cyclists are not... their response... they put up a "share the road sign" right where the lane ends... gosh, thanks for the warning... D'OH. (doesn't show in google maps yet)

In other areas there may be a sign right where the BL ends and maybe a sign that states Bike Route, but neither is large enough for motorists to see... and it is the motorists that need to be made aware of this change in road conditions as much as the cyclist. You know, because the cyclist the motorist has been ignoring all this time, is now "taking the lane." "The cyclist came out of nowhere..." "The cyclist swerved..." No, the BL ended, the road got narrower and the driver who was ignoring the cyclist and didn't see the tiny bike signs, now has to deal with the cyclist and "Share the Road."

Here is one of my "favorite" WTF situations... the BL suddenly ends (no warning): https://goo.gl/maps/8NwlV But you get a faded Bike Route sign. Then you encounter cars parked on the side of the road... no doubt because parked cars have priority over bike lanes. Then you encounter a sign, telling you the Bike Route Ends: https://goo.gl/maps/8TI8Q and hey, up ahead, the BL starts up again. So the cyclist is given no warning, must then take the lane, watch out for the door zone, for a lousy block or so, and then gets a bike lane again... but hey, it was a Bike Route for that scant distance, so uh, no problem, right? To a motorist... well again, the cyclist swerved... because certainly there was no warning to the motorist that a BL ended, the cyclist has to take the lane and thus share the road... nope... "the cyclist swerved," end of discussion.

So certainly there has to be some standard applied to how signs, and markings are done, and why, and that said road signs apply to ALL TRAFFIC, because in fact, everyone using the road will be affected.

buzzman

To fairly answer this question I would almost have to see the road to answer this question. Other factors might come into play for me here.

1) Traffic volume

2) The average speed of traffic in reality- not simply "as posted". It's all well and good to say a "35 mph limit" but I've been on roads like that where the traffic speed is greater than the posted speed limit and I am not interested in serving as reminder to drivers to slow down.

3) Weather conditions. bright sun? Rain? Snow? Snow piled up on the side of the road? Traveling east-west low sun in am or pm? Wind- cross wind? Head wind? Tail wind?

4) time of day? Rush hour? Late at night? A weekend or a week day? A Sunday morning at 6 am? A weekday at 5 pm?

5) how much of a shoulder is present? Is it rideable- clear of debris? Are there parked cars? Lots of intersections and stop lights/signs?

6) are there other bicyclists regularly using this roadway? Or am I the only one obviously out there?

7) condition of the road surface? Potholes? frost heaves? Steel plates for construction?

Although I have ridden in 48 of the United States and most of the Canadian provinces, my primary region for riding is New England and the Northeast. Our roadways and infrastructure is older and our weather conditions far more variable. I find these kinds of hypotheticals are usually asked by cyclists who ride in areas with more standardized road conditions and moderate weather conditions. Not that I'm sorry we don't all live in sunny California but here in the Northeast some of us learn to be a bit more pragmatic and apply our Yankee ingenuity to how we ride and it makes us wary to committing to answer for a road we haven't seen.

In all likelihood were the road you describe in Southern California I would more than likely be right where you would be riding, in the right lane, center to right tire track position. But I am being obtuse in my response to make a point. Bicyclists need to learn to make decisions for themselves due to the varied conditions under which we all ride. Often times in BF riders will post photos of areas where they ride and ask, "would you ride this road?" Or "where should I be on this road?" WARNING! You are far better off, IMO, asking qualified, competent cyclists in your area who ride the road regularly. Go to a good bike shop and ask there, join a bike club, contact a local or state bicycle advocacy group but be cautious of information you get from people on the internet who don't know the road you plan to ride on.

And when in doubt choose an alternate route that you do feel comfortable and safe riding- for the road described here I just might do that.

turbo1889

I'm not going to comment on the bicycle vehicle application of the signs the OP is asking about, I've already made my views in that area clear in other posts on other threads including a previous one by the same OP. But I will respond to their use in connection with automobile vehicles.

I was ticketed for driving 55-mph in the left (fast) lane of a five lane road (middle turning lane) which has a posted speed limit of 55-mph for failure to "keep right as slower traffic" (sign on that road is the "Slower Traffic Keep Right" sign, not the other one). I took it to traffic court and explained that the reason I was using the left lane was because I was driving as fast as I legally could on that road if not one or two miles over (was keeping the needle just slightly edging over the 55 mark on the speedometer) and because there were so many people pulling on and off of the highway in the right hand lane that I was constantly having to brake and accelerate which is a pain with a 2-ton truck hauling a full load and having to shift up and down through several gears every time (it was a 5 x 2-speed axle manual gearing with a gutless 6-cyl inline gas).

I pointed out that if anything I could be ticketed for speeding by a mile per hour or maybe two over the speed limit and the only reason it would be acceptable for them to give me a ticket for driving at or slightly above the maximum legal speed limit on a road which public pressure and appeal from the residents who live upon it had been deliberately reduced down to a 55-mph speed limit was if the state was willing to admit that they were deliberately trying to undermine the voice of the people who had circulated the petition to the board to have the speed limit on that road reduced and if they willing to also admit that they had built an entire lane of a roadway for miles and miles costing millions of dollars of tax payer money for the explicit purpose of assisting, aiding, and abetting the very criminal element which had been the result of so many deaths on that road that had prompted the petition to the board in the first place (several collisions involving reckless and extremely excessive speed on that road resulted in successful prosecution of more then one vehicular homicide charges in the years previous).

They traffic court judge dismissed the ticket against me and threw it out.

Obviously, the conditions in that situation were a "perfect storm" for me to be able to win that one on dismissal and "rub it in the face" of the pro-speed-demon criminally biased traffic cop in question and stare him down hard in court and put several questions to him where that crooked cop had to take the fifth, and when the cop filing the complaint against you takes the fifth that is something judges take note of. But even without those "perfect storm" conditions I personally strongly believe that if your driving on a roadway at the maximum legal speed then you have no obligation to use the right hand lane and can "camp out" in the left fast lane to your hearts content with the exception of getting over and yielding to emergency vehicles with lights and sirens. If the left lane is the fast lane and your driving as fast as you can legally drive then you belong in the fast lane. If your driving less then the maximum legal speed and thus are potentially slower moving then those who are driving as fast as they legally can then use the right slow lane unless your preparing for a left turn or passing some-one driving even slower then you are. To demand, or even just merely expect, people driving as fast as they can legally drive to be considered slow traffic and to get over and the hell out of the way of those speed demons so they can freely engage in criminal activity and willfully endanger the lives, health, and property of others only for the satisfaction of their own selfish ego is ludicrous.

But then again, one has to also realize that I speak from a biased opinion of one who has been a repeat victim in multiple collisions at the hands of the criminal "speed demon" class. So I am a little biased myself and have a near hatred of "speed demons" as a result of the property damages and injuries I have sustained at their hands and having been nearly killed more then once by their kind. I think I hate them even more then drunk drivers because the drunks have caused me less trouble.

DX-MAN

(spivonious:

Just because a bicycle is narrow and usually slower than motor vehicles does not mean that it has to be ridden at the right edge of the right-hand lane.


Actually, FRAP law means just that, unless the right edge is deemed impassable/unsafe by the cyclist.)

Nope, not quite right. NOTHING requires you to ride at the right EDGE -- "FRAP" specifies "practicable", which means safe and feasible to do, and THAT is cyclist's discretion (within reason). It's "possible" to ride the edge, but rarely if ever practicable. 'Same rights and responsibilities' overrides this 'right edge of the road' BS.

Yes, "unsafe" is the chief disqualifying factor in your reply; but the fact is, 'right to the road' is the true disqualifier. Riding at the edge INVITES close passing, a textbook unsafe condition.

I'm not alone in maintaining that, in practice, the right HALF of the right lane, at the very least, is safe and feasible to do.

DX-MAN

Not a lawyer, but this is my take:

Being in the right-hand lane IS OK. Same road, same rights, same rules (for the most part). Riding in the 'right-tire track' of the lane is pretty much inarguable, unless you get a cop whose hemorrhoids are acting up, and wants to 'share the joy'.

There is a major thoroughfare in my town that switches between 4-lane 2-way to 2-lane every couple miles; the width of the road never changes, though (40mph speed limit on most of it). When I ride to the VA, this is the most direct route, and I have no hesitation about taking the right lane on this road. When it's 2-lane, I have a foot or so between the right edge of the road and the right end of my bar, putting me in the right-tire track some of the time. ONE problem in the last 4 years, a service van who didn't know what he was doing, heard me yell at him, and stopped at the next light to ask me about it. I told him, he accepted it, and I never saw him again.

I ride MTB, and sometimes I want to play a little; when I do, I take to the (legal here) sidewalk, and hop to my heart's content. NEVER an issue, since about 12 people seem to walk anywhere around this town. Bus patrons here will stop the bus 200 feet from a signed bus stop to get on, because they don't want to walk the 200 feet, and see no reason why they should.....

Chris516

Also, In Maryland it says "as close as practicable". That is not up to the motorist to define that for every cyclist.

Additionally, I make a point of riding as close to the speed limit, as my bike components(I need better wheels to begin with) will allow me to go(25-30mph/40mph road; 25-30mph/30mph road).

mconlonx

I only ever see signs like that on the highways, where bikes are not permitted anyway.

However, next time I'm on the highway, doing 60mph on my bicycle, I will be sure to keep to the right hand lanes.

It's not like motorists pay attention to such signs or that cops tag drivers who don't obey them.

work4bike

That was my point in post #6 . You do see this trend in states to use this left lane as a way to "legally" speed. It's crazy. In my state they say you can be in that lane as long as you are not more than 5mph below the posted speedlimit. However, in practice you don't want to be in that lane unless you're at least 5mph above the posted limit and sometimes even 5mph above is too slow.

turbo1889

If the cop in question gets ticked off because he can't pass because your in the left fast lane going the speed limit and he tries several times to get around you passing in the right slow lane but fails because other vehicle traffic is turning in and out of that right lane often enough to slow down the progress in that lane to be equal or less to the speed limit.

Yes, the ticked off wanna-be speed demon cop will indeed really drop back and straddle both lanes behind you and flip on his lights and sirens and pull you over and chew you out for daring to use the left hand fast lane "while only going 55" (exact words of officer in question) on a road that does indeed have a posted speed limit of 55-mph and give you a ticket with a triple digit price tag for failing to "keep right as slower traffic".

Been there, done that, took it to court and won. See above.

So, yes, if a cop who is not running "code-3" and thus must follow the same rules of the road is prevented from being a speed demon and driving faster then legally allowed by you as a motorists legally using the left hand fast lane traveling at only the speed limit but still faster over all sustained speed then other traffic in the right hand slow lane because of people pulling in and out of the road on that lane so often and thus both travel lanes are blocked at or below the legal speed limit and he can't speed demon like he wants too. In other words he is personally prevented from doing so and its his personal selfish ego that gets hurt because he can't driver faster then the posted 55-mph speed limit either then it can and does happen that they try to ticket for that.

Don't know about a bike, so far have not personally had that experience on a bike so far, but then I don't ride a bike in the left hand fast lane very often either. There are select few times when I've been riding a bike in slow moving traffic on a multi-lane roadway and I was able to pass slower cars using the left hand fast lane but that doesn't happen very often at all. Although it is really fun to watch the faces in your mirror both of the car behind you also passing in the left hand fast lane and the car being passed in the right hand slow lane when they get passed by a pedal bicycle, my best thrill so far was with one of them that when I passed him he was so stunned he drove off the road part way into the ditch while staring at me as I passed him, it was hard to maintain my pedaling power while laughing.