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-   -   Two more gone, in NH (http://www.bikeforums.net/advocacy-safety/914183-two-more-gone-nh.html)

10 Wheels 09-25-13 09:40 AM

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mconlonx 09-25-13 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by howsteepisit (Post 16101784)
Tried, Convicted, sentenced, paroled, and complained about the sentence. All before the actual arraignment. Good God, what a fine example of waiting for the facts, and American justice. This is one of the most pathetic lynch mobs I have ever seen or heard of.

Welcome to A&S! :thumb:

gabedad 09-25-13 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by howsteepisit (Post 16101784)
Tried, Convicted, sentenced, paroled, and complained about the sentence. All before the actual arraignment. Good God, what a fine example of waiting for the facts, and American justice. This is one of the most pathetic lynch mobs I have ever seen or heard of.

Oh I don't know - maybe seeing these people in pools of Blood with all of their possessions and equipment all over the road - like I did!

Velo Vol 09-25-13 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by howsteepisit (Post 16101784)
Tried, Convicted, sentenced, paroled, and complained about the sentence. All before the actual arraignment. Good God, what a fine example of waiting for the facts, and American justice. This is one of the most pathetic lynch mobs I have ever seen or heard of.

I'm guessing there's little doubt she was the one who hit the cyclists.

gabedad 09-25-13 01:20 PM

How about a former state trooper Major being an eyewitness:

http://hampton-northhampton.patch.co...like-a-pursuit

Metaluna 09-25-13 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Velo Vol (Post 16103212)
I'm guessing there's little doubt she was the one who hit the cyclists.

Not only that, but if there was anything resembling an extenuating circumstance that might have excused her behavior (medical emergency, etc.) it certainly hasn't come to light yet. If anything, every new day seems to bring one more piece of information that makes it worse for her (see the link gabedad just posted about the retired state trooper). For her sake I hope the blood tests come back negative.

Judging from the comment sections at various news websites, public opinion really turned against her after the news broke about the previous speeding and license violations. Before that, it was wall-to-wall bicycle haters. They seem to have scurried back under their rocks for the most part.

side_FX 09-25-13 02:14 PM

We're really just venting on here because any one of us could have been one of those riders that day. We've probably have all experienced near misses and scary moments that make us second guess our passion for riding. Unfortunately it is always something that sticks in my mind as start any ride. Obviously I want a careful and methodical evaluation of all evidence to come to a complete understanding as to what happened that day....and I want a just sentence for those at fault. Please find other threads to read if this one upsets you.

KevinS 09-25-13 07:50 PM

Another arrest has been made in relationship to this:
http://www.wcvb.com/news/local/drive...4/-/index.html

Metaluna 09-25-13 08:08 PM

Wow, like I said before, this just gets worse by the day.

Anyone know how long it typically takes to get blood test results back? It seems to me they must have them by now, and if so, they must be negative, otherwise she would have been charged with vehicular manslaughter at least.

MikeM21 09-25-13 09:10 PM

Wow, indeed. Boom! I don't think this one is going to get off easy. IMO, YMMV, etc. etc.

Dahon.Steve 09-25-13 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metaluna (Post 16091525)
I don't have much information to add, other than to contradict what a previous poster said about the bridge. It is not a wide bridge with shoulders and a center lane. It is extremely narrow, with no shoulders, and a grid deck in the center of the span (it is a drawbridge). Google Street View will give you a good idea what it's like. There is a narrow sidewalk on one side, which I often walk my bike across in the summer

I've seen a number of bridges like this one and it's always safer to use the sidwalk. This bridge should be restricted because it's too narrow for cars and cyclist. Each year we see a cyclist killed on narrow bridges like the one in NH. I think it's important they restrict this bridge to motor traffic and force cyclist and pedestrians to walk over the bridge.

I hate seeing this happen each year but it could have been avoided. A ten minute walk over that bridge would have saved two lives. My condolences.

B. Carfree 09-25-13 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dahon.Steve (Post 16104839)
I've seen a number of bridges like this one and it's always safer to use the sidwalk. This bridge should be restricted because it's too narrow for cars and cyclist. Each year we see a cyclist killed on narrow bridges like the one in NH. I think it's important they restrict this bridge to motor traffic and force cyclist and pedestrians to walk over the bridge.

I hate seeing this happen each year but it could have been avoided. A ten minute walk over that bridge would have saved two lives. My condolences.

If the bridge is unsafe, then it should be restricted... to nonmotorists. Face it, if the motorists would obey the law, then there wouldn't be any CARnage. If they can't manage that, then it is the motorists who should suffer the inconvenience of finding an alternate route to wherever they want to go.

B. Carfree 09-25-13 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KevinS (Post 16104470)
Another arrest has been made in relationship to this:
http://www.wcvb.com/news/local/drive...4/-/index.html

This woman committed a felony that led to two deaths. Whatever happened to felony murder charges?

I had a family friend do a number of years in San Quintin when he gave a ride to someone who robbed a store and killed the shop-keeper, all unknown to the driver.

PatrickGSR94 09-26-13 04:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dahon.Steve (Post 16104839)
I've seen a number of bridges like this one and it's always safer to use the sidwalk. This bridge should be restricted because it's too narrow for cars and cyclist. Each year we see a cyclist killed on narrow bridges like the one in NH. I think it's important they restrict this bridge to motor traffic and force cyclist and pedestrians to walk over the bridge.

I hate seeing this happen each year but it could have been avoided. A ten minute walk over that bridge would have saved two lives. My condolences.

Excuse me, force cyclists to use the sidewalk? What would you say then to the millions of miles of 2-lane roads with no shoulder that exist in this country? Make those all off-limits to cyclists as well? I commute between work and home and my ONLY choice is 2-lane roads with no shoulder or sidewalks.

Forcing cyclists off the road is never the answer. I don't think your opinion will sit well with very many cyclists.

Metaluna 09-26-13 06:14 AM

Since I was the one who made the original comment about walking my bike across the bridge, I should emphasize that I've only done it at the height of the beach season when the traffic is really bad, and it is usually an unpleasant experience. The sidewalk is really narrow -- hardly enough for two pedestrians to pass each other. Now imagine it packed with pedestrians heading to the beach, and idiots riding their bikes on the sidewalk. Last time I did it, I was stopping about every 10 feet to let someone squeeze by. It took probably 20 minutes to get across. Then when I did make it across, I still had to cross route 1A in heavy traffic to get back to the southbound side (the sidewalk is only on the northbound side), and there are no crosswalks or lights anywhere near the bridge.

So was walking across really safer, or was I just being timid? I kind of think it's a wash in hindsight. Overall, that whole area is worth avoiding in the summer, which is why this century is held in late September after the tourists have mostly gone. Though unfortunately the party/raver crowd is there year-round, as we learned last Saturday.

Oh, and since Ms. Hess' path of destruction included riding up on the sidewalk, she would have massacred many pedestrians had this happened a month earlier, so walking across wouldn't have helped anyway.

ScottRyder 09-26-13 08:26 AM

I went to high school with Margo Heigh, she is well liked on Cape Ann and known as a strong dedicated rider. Prayers for everyone, this has just been an awful week.

Scott

Seattle Forrest 09-26-13 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by side_FX (Post 16103407)
We're really just venting on here because any one of us could have been one of those riders that day.

Except those of us who ride on MUPs.

Consularrider 09-26-13 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B. Carfree (Post 16104877)
If the bridge is unsafe, then it should be restricted... to nonmotorists. Face it, if the motorists would obey the law, then there wouldn't be any CARnage. If they can't manage that, then it is the motorists who should suffer the inconvenience of finding an alternate route to wherever they want to go.

The other major fallacy with Dahon.Steve's argument is that there is no other way to get across that area without going three miles inland which puts you on US1, not a much better option.

Leebo 09-26-13 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dahon.Steve (Post 16104839)
I've seen a number of bridges like this one and it's always safer to use the sidwalk. This bridge should be restricted because it's too narrow for cars and cyclist. Each year we see a cyclist killed on narrow bridges like the one in NH. I think it's important they restrict this bridge to motor traffic and force cyclist and pedestrians to walk over the bridge.

I hate seeing this happen each year but it could have been avoided. A ten minute walk over that bridge would have saved two lives. My condolences.

She was driving on one side and CROSSED all the way over to the other side to hit 4 cyclists head on. Maybe the ride needs to take the whole lane with traffic marshals on each end of the bridge.

gabedad 09-26-13 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leebo (Post 16106538)
She was driving on one side and CROSSED all the way over to the other side to hit 4 cyclists head on. Maybe the ride needs to take the whole lane with traffic marshals on each end of the bridge.

I think that is what should be done for this ride in the future. I may not do that leg of the ride next year if they do not have it. The only reason it's there is to make it "tri state"

mconlonx 09-26-13 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gabedad (Post 16106678)
I think that is what should be done for this ride in the future. I may not do that leg of the ride next year if they do not have it. The only reason it's there is to make it "tri state"

If my understanding is correct and there is a third, center turn lane on that bridge, then that particular stretch of road is wider than the rest of the course in many areas. Rt. 103 through Kittery/Kittery Pt/York, for instance--two lanes, posted 35mph, no shoulder.

side_FX 09-26-13 02:46 PM

Two more implicated in this mess. This thing is turning into a real sad movie of the week.

PatrickGSR94 09-26-13 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mconlonx (Post 16106938)
If my understanding is correct and there is a third, center turn lane on that bridge, then that particular stretch of road is wider than the rest of the course in many areas. Rt. 103 through Kittery/Kittery Pt/York, for instance--two lanes, posted 35mph, no shoulder.

No there is not. Check the Google Maps link I posted on page 2 and the street view. 2 lanes, sidewalk on one side, that's it.

mconlonx 09-26-13 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PatrickGSR94 (Post 16107051)
No there is not. Check the Google Maps link I posted on page 2 and the street view. 2 lanes, sidewalk on one side, that's it.

Oh, right. That bridge.

Well, that second part of the statement stands--there's plenty of places as narrow, particularly rt 103, where you don't have even the sightline you have on the bridge. I can't see roads like that being closed to traffic as 1200 riders string out over 100 mi.

Certainly could skip the southern loop, though, and still do a metric century.

Metaluna 09-26-13 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mconlonx (Post 16107442)
Well, that second part of the statement stands--there's plenty of places as narrow, particularly rt 103, where you don't have even the sightline you have on the bridge. I can't see roads like that being closed to traffic as 1200 riders string out over 100 mi.

Certainly could skip the southern loop, though, and still do a metric century.

Yes, at that time of year, and that time of morning, I really don't see the bridge as being all that dangerous. Until the appalling criminal behavior of a few possible drug addicts, this ride had been running for 39 years without a major incident (as far as I know).

I do agree the southern part of the route is mostly "junk mileage". They could just stretch the route up further into Maine, say up to Ogunquit and Wells. I suspect this would mess up the logistics of the current SAG stops and they might have to add another one though. Right now, because of the way the route doubles back on itself, they can service the entire route with pretty much just the single rest stop at Fort McClary and a smaller one at the starting point.


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