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  1. #51
    rugged individualist wphamilton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dougmc View Post
    I did cover the empirical result part in the very next paragraph -- Really, the "to the fourth power" is just an estimate that attempts to cover a much more complicated situation. But certainly, it's nowhere near "to the first power".

    If one believes that a motor vehicle or bicycle does or should pay a fee proportional to or related to the damage they cause to the roads, it's quite important to the discussion.
    I'm not going to argue over a penny vs a dollar a year, so have it either way you want.

  2. #52
    Senior Member dougmc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wphamilton View Post
    I'm not going to argue over a penny vs a dollar a year, so have it either way you want.
    I said "pennies" not "a penny". "Pennies per year" could even be extended to a whole dollar per year.

    That said, there will not be any registration system that charges on the order of a dollar per year or less for bicycles, especially if they thought the system would help "pay for the roads". It's not enough money to even pay for administering the system.

    There have been mandatory bicycle registrations that charged a few dollars per year in the past, but they didn't involve almost full sized plates and certainly weren't intended to pay for the roads -- the intent was more to make bicycles easier to track somehow. And in general they cost more to administer than they brought in and were eventually thrown out.

    If (and this is a big if) the lawmakers decide that cyclists need to stop being freeloaders and actually pay for the roads (with all the logical problems that assertion has -- I am *not* agreeing with this view), they will not base the fee proportionally on vehicle weight, vehicle+operator weight or damage done to the roads (and we can talk about if it's fair or not all we want -- they just won't do it.)

    Instead, they'll probably just look at what they already charge motorcycles or mopeds and either charge the same amount or a little less.

  3. #53
    rugged individualist wphamilton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dougmc View Post
    I said "pennies" not "a penny". "Pennies per year" could even be extended to a whole dollar per year.
    Your mistake - using the fourth power, (180/3500) to the fourth power is what?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougmc View Post
    That said, there will not be any registration system that charges on the order of a dollar per year or less for bicycles,
    Nope, and of course that's the point in the first place.

  4. #54
    BF Avatar Zombie Hunter Jseis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
    My guess: One or more gaggles of roadies from "out of town" were seen as obnoxious road hogs by the locals of some town(s) they roll though regularly on training rides and the enraged locals are constituents of the legislator. Hence the specific restrictions on peloton riding; the rest of the legislation is meant to rub salt into wounds.

    Luckily it is the bike registration fees and administrative burden that will likely kill the proposal. The restriction on roadie formations would probably pass in many places if the bill had limited itself to peloton restrictions.

    A gaggle of roadies...damn...been wondering what the best collective noun is..thanks!
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  5. #55
    Senior Member dougmc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wphamilton View Post
    Your mistake - using the fourth power, (180/3500) to the fourth power is what?
    You seem confused. I was commenting on what you said --

    Quote Originally Posted by wphamilton
    I told my friend that I wouldn't mind paying a registration tax as long as it was proportional to the vehicle weight, since wear on the road is proportional to weight. Sounds fair to me.
    ... proportional to vehicle weight would be 20/3500 for a road bike, and proportional means to the first power, not the fourth. So if that was the system, if the 3500 lb car costs $50, the 20 lb bike costs 29 cents. That's the "pennies" I was referring to.

    And if they include a typical operator weight, it becomes 200 lbs vs 3680 lbs instead, so instead of 29 cents that works out to around $2.80.

    Of course, both of these include some guesses at weights and prices -- they're just examples. Certainly, that 29 cents could turn into a dollar with a heavier bike or a more expensive fee, and that $2.80 could turn into a dollar with a lighter rider and a less expensive fee.

    (And nobody is suggesting that they do it by the fourth power that I'm aware of. Unless you were when you said "since wear on the road is proportional to weight" ?)

    But again, if somebody decides that bicycles do need to be registered and need full sized plates and the like, especially if the purpose is to make sure they pay "their fair share", the cost won't be $0.29 or $2.80. It'll probably be about what motorcycles are charged, possibly a bit less.
    Last edited by dougmc; 09-30-13 at 11:47 PM.

  6. #56
    Senior Member delcrossv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henny_Penny

    Registering would be bad. I strongly doubt that would pass.
    The "peloton" thing is interesting. I'm surprised it's not illegal in more places.
    The "riding abreast" is very unusual.


    The "option for restrictions on state highways" is common. It's probably the case in your state but you aren't complaining about it! Why are you more concerned with proposed legislation (in some other state) than actual laws (in your own state)? And how do you propose non-GA residents whinging here is going to do anything useful? Bizarre.
    It'd be nice if GA residents would know about this bit of foolishness though. No restriction on pelotons or riding on STATE highways in Illinois. Interstates are another matter, but state routes are most rural roads here.
    Last edited by delcrossv; 10-01-13 at 08:38 AM.
    Lightning P-38 / M5 M-Racer/Ryan Vanguard

  7. #57
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    Bicycle license and registration law proposal

    Via reason.com comes today's example of "are you f***ing kidding me?"

    Three Hall County legislators will hold a meeting Monday night at the Hall County Government Center to discuss proposed legislation that calls for registration and licensing of bicycles used on Georgia roadways.

    Gainesville State Rep. Carl Rogers said he placed House Bill 689 in the "hopper" at the end of the 2013 legislative session, knowing that the measure would be up for consideration in 2014. Fellow Republicans Lee Hawkins and Emory Dunahoo are co-sponsors of the bill.

    In essence, the measure calls for paid registration and licensing for bicycles that would be operated on streets that also are used by motor vehicles. Rogers said the legislation would change some operating rules for cyclists, as well.

    Some lowlights of the bill [pdf] include a $15 yearly registration fee; elimination of "two-abreast" riding; limiting riding groups to no more than four bikes separated by at least four feet each; groups of four separated by at least 50 feet.

    Are they trying to get people to give up bicycling? It doesn't appear to give any exemptions for children's bicycles, either. Not to mention the effective destruction of the group ride with the four-cyclist limit.

    Article from accessnorthga.com
    Overachievers do not exist. To use the term implies that there is, or should be, a limit to one's personal achievement

  8. #58
    Zoom zoom zoom zoom bonk znomit's Avatar
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    Man, I would so own the lane everywhere.

  9. #59
    Senior Member daihard's Avatar
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    They must be sponsored by the auto industry.
    Badly-behaved cyclists are usually just cyclists with inadequate infrastructure. Or none at all. - Mikael Colville-Andersen

  10. #60
    Senior Member Crash_N_Carry's Avatar
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    Besides lining the pockets of the state gov't, just what good would enacting this particular law do? It's not going to make the roads any safer since there's still a contingent out there either on their bikes or behind the wheel that act like total a-holes no matter what the laws say. The only thing I see it as is a way to extract money from cyclists who have given up driving.

    Plain and simple; we don't need new laws that quite obviously aren't going to do crap. Instead they should be enforcing the laws that are already there.

    Beyond that the only thing I see this doing is opening the doors to more bureaucratic crap and fees. Next thing you know you'll be required to get bicycle insurance, a yearly inspection fee, etc.

    The only way I'd personally get behind any kind of legislation like this is if they planned on using the revenue generated to improving infrastructure for cyclists. Thing is, we all know that'll never happen. :/

  11. #61
    Senior Member totalnewbie's Avatar
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    can't wait to see jon stewart take a crack at the groups of four thing.

  12. #62
    Zoom zoom zoom zoom bonk znomit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by znomit View Post
    Man, I would so own the lane everywhere.
    Dude, its in the US, the Chinese own that lane.

  13. #63
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    I <3 our government

  14. #64
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    You are talking about Georgia after all. Trying to find any intelligence in most elected officials there is pointless. It is scary that the same standard of intelligence is now inflicting itself on a national basis. Would that Mencken was still alive to pillory the ignorance that seems to be the new badge of honor.

  15. #65
    Still can't climb
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    I hear Georgia has some great golf courses.
    coasting, few quotes are worthy of him, and of those, even fewer printable in a family forum......quote 3alarmer

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  16. #66
    Senior Member ibikestickers's Avatar
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    When laws like this come up, I always figure that there is some kind of personal vendetta involved between the lawmaker and someone/some thing. Rogers probably hates when his limo driver has to pass cyclists. J/K, I don't know that he rides in a limo, but it sure seems like the privileged and powerful love to go after the dumbest things.

  17. #67
    Senior Member Nachoman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ibikestickers View Post
    When laws like this come up, I always figure that there is some kind of personal vendetta involved between the lawmaker and someone/some thing. Rogers probably hates when his limo driver has to pass cyclists. J/K, I don't know that he rides in a limo, but it sure seems like the privileged and powerful love to go after the dumbest things.
    I think he's probably just taking his orders from some corporation that gave him a large bribe . . . I mean contribution.
    .
    .

    Two wheels good. Four wheels bad.

  18. #68
    Packfodding 3 caloso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wits_Of_Fury View Post
    Via reason.com comes today's example of "are you f***ing kidding me?"
    Three Hall County legislators will hold a meeting Monday night at the Hall County Government Center to discuss proposed legislation that calls for registration and licensing of bicycles used on Georgia roadways.

    Gainesville State Rep. Carl Rogers said he placed House Bill 689 in the "hopper" at the end of the 2013 legislative session, knowing that the measure would be up for consideration in 2014. Fellow Republicans Lee Hawkins and Emory Dunahoo are co-sponsors of the bill.

    In essence, the measure calls for paid registration and licensing for bicycles that would be operated on streets that also are used by motor vehicles. Rogers said the legislation would change some operating rules for cyclists, as well.

    Some lowlights of the bill [pdf] include a $15 yearly registration fee; elimination of "two-abreast" riding; limiting riding groups to no more than four bikes separated by at least four feet each; groups of four separated by at least 50 feet.

    Are they trying to get people to give up bicycling? It doesn't appear to give any exemptions for children's bicycles, either. Not to mention the effective destruction of the group ride with the four-cyclist limit.

    Article from accessnorthga.com
    Yes.
    Cyclists of the world, unite! You have nothing to lube but your chains!

  19. #69
    Senior Member Seattle Forrest's Avatar
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    Typical big government republicans.
    Don't believe everything you think.

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
    Typical big government republicans.
    Texas Governor Rick Perry voted down a bill requiring 3' passing distance on cyclists. Apparently cyclists are only welcome to some degree in very few places.

  21. #71
    Administrator CbadRider's Avatar
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    The thread from Road was merged with the existing thread in A&S.
    Last edited by CbadRider; 10-04-13 at 10:13 AM.
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  22. #72
    Banned Bikepacker67's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
    Having a license on a bike is a whole can of worms. Are the police going to run in a four year old for not having a license or her little pink sidewalk bike? I think the police have far better things to do!!!!
    And what about touring through the State?

  23. #73
    Packfodding 3 caloso's Avatar
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    I would be happy to pay a registration fee based on curb weight if it were applied equally to all vehicles. How about a dollar a pound?

    So, that's $17 for an Excalibur and $5718 for an Escalade. Sounds fair.
    Cyclists of the world, unite! You have nothing to lube but your chains!

  24. #74
    Senior Member dougmc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirHustlerEsq View Post
    Texas Governor Rick Perry voted down a bill requiring 3' passing distance on cyclists. Apparently cyclists are only welcome to some degree in very few places.
    Well, he vetoed it.

    He did give a reason for it -- that passing vulnerable road users too closely was already illegal -- and that statement is basically true. That said, the existing law doesn't give a specific distance, and the new one did. Also, the bill had passed with unanimous or near unanimous support from the legislature, so you'd think he'd have not vetoed something so strongly supported ... but he did.

  25. #75
    Senior Member delcrossv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikepacker67 View Post
    And what about touring through the State?
    "Full faith and credit" takes care of that- just bring an out of state ID.
    Lightning P-38 / M5 M-Racer/Ryan Vanguard

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