Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10-06-13, 03:30 PM   #1
Equinox
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 803
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 75 Post(s)
Aftera Crash, Why Don't LEOs Give Tickets?

My friend was hit by a car that turned left in front of him. The driver clearly failed to yield the right of way;no ticket. I was in a park and i saw a runner get hit by a car. He was running in the designated lane for runners and bikes when an old man came up from behind and hit the guy. Witnessing that, everything was surreal and in slow motion. The guy flew up and hit the junction of the roof and the window with his head and I think he hit his head on the pavement when he fell off the car. The guy's head was actually dented. Cops came and basically did nothing. I told the cop to check the driver for alcohol, because if he wasn't drunk, he doesn't know how to drive. Cop told me to shut up. I was there the whole time and the cops never did a thing. Why is that? In both cases, the drivers were 100% wrong.
Equinox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-13, 04:10 PM   #2
turbo1889
Transportation Cyclist
 
turbo1889's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Montana U.S.A.
Bikes: Too many to list, some I built myself including the frame. I "do" ~ Human-Only-Pedal-Powered-Cycles, Human-Electric-Hybrid-Cycles, Human-IC-Hybrid-Cycles, and one Human-IC-Electric-3way-Hybrid-Cycle
Posts: 1,206
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Because cops are not unbiased angels and mostly being motorists themselves and surrounded by a society that has an "it was just an accident" mentality when it comes to people not treating automobiles as the dangerous machines they are and showing appropriate due regard for the lives, health, and property of innocents they are naturally biased towards the same view point. Most don't even realize they are.
turbo1889 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-13, 04:29 PM   #3
Pibber
Senior Member
 
Pibber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: AdMo
Bikes: cannondales 84 ST500; 87SR500; 95 CAAD 3 Silk Road 500; 99 CAAD 3 Frameset(project)
Posts: 481
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
i agree with turbo1889. in my accident, which i'm still pursuing legal avenues, the officer cited neither myself or the driver, but has told the driver's insurance company i was at fault.

if you can, find the victims and offer to be a witness if they need one at a trial or hearing. your testimony is priceless. seriously.
Pibber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-13, 05:04 PM   #4
Equinox
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 803
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 75 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by turbo1889 View Post
Because cops are not unbiased angels and mostly being motorists themselves and surrounded by a society that has an "it was just an accident" mentality when it comes to people not treating automobiles as the dangerous machines they are and showing appropriate due regard for the lives, health, and property of innocents they are naturally biased towards the same view point. Most don't even realize they are.
I'm gonna disagree. Beautiful Sunday afternoon. No traffic. excellent road. well maintained vehicle. highly skilled, unimpaired and experienced driver going DOWNHILL at 57 in a 45. LEO at the BOTTOM of the hill cites me. If the LEO had the perspective you purport, he would say, this is a bull**** ticket and leave me alone.
You're probably right though. when it comes to car v. other user, they are biased to the car. But there are NOT accidents!
Equinox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-13, 05:10 PM   #5
I-Like-To-Bike
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Posts: 23,859
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Equinox View Post
I'm gonna disagree. Beautiful Sunday afternoon. No traffic. excellent road. well maintained vehicle. highly skilled, unimpaired and experienced driver going DOWNHILL at 57 in a 45. LEO at the BOTTOM of the hill cites me. If the LEO had the perspective you purport, he would say, this is a bull**** ticket and leave me alone.!
You were driving 12 mph over the limit and believe the LEO gave you a **** ticket and should have left you alone?

Why, because you were going DOWNHILL? Because it was beautiful weather and you were unimpaired? Huh?

You must not be as experienced a road user as you think you are.
I-Like-To-Bike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-13, 05:19 PM   #6
genec
genec
 
genec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2
Posts: 24,790
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 478 Post(s)
Situations vary. I was in a collision where a motorist left a stop sign early and we collided. LEO cited the driver for failing to yield ROW at a stop. So it isn't as if motorists are never cited. And certainly motorists are often not cited at automobile/automobile collisions when the LEO decides it was "just an accident."

Frankly I feel that any "accident" is really a collision where someone failed to follow the rules, and someone should be ticketed when ever a collision occurs.
genec is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-13, 06:06 PM   #7
Equinox
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 803
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 75 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
You were driving 12 mph over the limit and believe the LEO gave you a **** ticket and should have left you alone?

Why, because you were going DOWNHILL? Because it was beautiful weather and you were unimpaired? Huh?

You must not be as experienced a road user as you think you are.
Why do you suppose he gave me a ticket?
Equinox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-13, 06:06 PM   #8
alaskanb3arcub
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Bikes: Forest Green Dahon Boardwalk
Posts: 198
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by turkey9186 View Post
I am usually against going that route, but plan on contacting an attorney tomorrow.
JB
And don't say another word about it online until the case is done(as the sticky says).
alaskanb3arcub is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-13, 06:15 PM   #9
KonAaron Snake 
Fat Guy on a Little Bike
 
KonAaron Snake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Bikes: Two wheeled ones
Posts: 15,197
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 183 Post(s)
It's a conspiracy...they're out to get us!!!

The real answer to your question is that most of the time they don't see the accident or any behavior to ticket. They write down what it looks like when they got there...what the people say...and leave it as a civil matter.
KonAaron Snake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-13, 06:31 PM   #10
dynodonn 
Senior Member
 
dynodonn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 7,327
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 51 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by KonAaron Snake View Post
The real answer to your question is that most of the time they don't see the accident or any behavior to ticket. They write down what it looks like when they got there...what the people say...and leave it as a civil matter.

After seeing how a number of civil matters turned out, doing nothing on the LEO's part is still a bunch of bull****.

Last edited by dynodonn; 10-06-13 at 06:38 PM.
dynodonn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-13, 06:31 PM   #11
DX-MAN
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Bikes:
Posts: 4,789
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Some have pointed out, when this has come up in other threads, that a ticket negates any further prosecution, should more serious charges be warranted later, AFTER an investigation. Of course, "investigations" are usually something of a joke (just ask SF), so that point may be a little thin.
DX-MAN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-13, 06:31 PM   #12
walrus1
Senior Member
 
walrus1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: NYC
Bikes: Schwinn World Sport Jamis Ventura
Posts: 477
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
It's my understanding it's because of three reasons in NYC

1. As @turbo1889 it's car based bias. A disportionate amount of NYC's public employees drive and live on Long Island, upstate, or in car centred parts of Brooklyn and Queens or even in NJ. They often don't understand how bikes are legitimate form of transportation and fail to see the danger cars posse to them.

2. Police have very strict ticket quotas either official or unofficial. In NYC they tend to focus on things like open containers, turnstile jumping, anything related to bicycles and drug tickets tend to be their favorite.

3. Tickets= work for cops. They have to document the incident and might be pulled into court. Unless their CO forces them to a cop [strike]might be[/strike] most definitely will be reluctant to make more work for themselves.

Last edited by walrus1; 10-06-13 at 06:36 PM.
walrus1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-13, 06:37 PM   #13
MMACH 5
Cycle Dallas
 
MMACH 5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Land of Gar, TX
Bikes: Lucinda--2010 Jamis Aurora Elite & a few others
Posts: 3,618
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
I think the lack of tickets applies more in multi-vehicle collisions. They probably expect insurance or lawyers to hash out the details.
As a teenager, I had two single-vehicle accidents. I totaled both cars and the police showed up and ticketed me for the accidents. Having to pay the fines only added insult to injury.
MMACH 5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-13, 07:31 PM   #14
Chris516
24-Speed Machine
 
Chris516's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Wash. Grove, MD
Bikes: 2003 Specialized Allez 24-Speed Road Bike
Posts: 6,054
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
LEO's only want to cite cyclists'. If cyclists' are hit or even killed by a motorist, LEOs' won't cite the motorist. The case in L.A. back in 2010 where Dr. Christopher Thompson was convicted and sent to prison for intentionally stopping in front cyclists' in the midst of road rage. The fact that the doctor was even arrested when no LEOs' where in the area to visually see it happen, is more than a stroke of luck. I keep encountering LEO's who give the excuse that they had to see it happen which is hogwash.
Chris516 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-13, 08:02 PM   #15
dynodonn 
Senior Member
 
dynodonn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 7,327
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 51 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris516 View Post
LEO's only want to cite cyclists'. If cyclists' are hit or even killed by a motorist, LEOs' won't cite the motorist. The case in L.A. back in 2010 where Dr. Christopher Thompson was convicted and sent to prison for intentionally stopping in front cyclists' in the midst of road rage. The fact that the doctor was even arrested when no LEOs' where in the area to visually see it happen, is more than a stroke of luck. I keep encountering LEO's who give the excuse that they had to see it happen which is hogwash.
The "Good Doctor" would have got away with it if a previous incident hadn't been documented, and even that previous documentation had to be brought to law enforcements attention by one of the cyclist's lawyers.
dynodonn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-13, 12:06 AM   #16
I-Like-To-Bike
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Posts: 23,859
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris516 View Post
I keep encountering LEO's who give the excuse that they had to see it happen which is hogwash.
Where and/or why do you keep having such encounters? Are you really involved in that many collisions with automobiles?
I-Like-To-Bike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-13, 01:24 AM   #17
HonestOne
Senior Member
 
HonestOne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Bikes:
Posts: 57
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I like Cops, even though they have harassed me various times and rarely see them doing their job at 100% efficiency. Not to generalize but Cops like to abuse their power, they know people have little they can do so they get away with things all the time. Why? I don't know...
Equinox, I don't think you should have received a ticket for riding down the hill. As long as you are only putting your self in danger, then I don't have a problem with it. Best thing to do, if you ever see a Cop getting ready to write you a ticket, is to plead for a "Warning".
HonestOne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-13, 03:26 AM   #18
Chris516
24-Speed Machine
 
Chris516's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Wash. Grove, MD
Bikes: 2003 Specialized Allez 24-Speed Road Bike
Posts: 6,054
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
Where and/or why do you keep having such encounters? Are you really involved in that many collisions with automobiles?
No, I am referring to after the fact. A perfect example is a drunk driver. If a motorist calls it in, the police won't say that they had to see it. But if a cyclist makes the same call, the police will make the same 'priority' excuse.
Chris516 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-13, 07:23 AM   #19
rydabent
Senior Member
 
rydabent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Lincoln Ne
Bikes: RANS Stratus TerraTrike Cruiser
Posts: 5,768
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 168 Post(s)
If there are two people involved it was not an accident. Someone was in the wrong.

Somehow we need to get the police by the idea that since it involves a bike there is not a problem.
rydabent is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-13, 08:59 AM   #20
mconlonx 
Nobody
 
mconlonx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 7,176
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 705 Post(s)
If you listen to auto drivers, they will claim that LEO has ticket quotas regarding vehicle tickets, that tagging cars is nothing more than "revenue enhancement," i.e., they are unfairly ticketing cars doing illegal things not to keep people safe, but for the money it brings into municipal coffers.

Which flies in the face of cyclist claims that LEO is hesitant to ticket auto-driving scofflaws (who give other drivers a bad name!).
__________________
I know next to nothing. I am frequently wrong.
mconlonx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-13, 09:58 AM   #21
Equinox
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 803
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 75 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by HonestOne View Post
I like Cops, even though they have harassed me various times and rarely see them doing their job at 100% efficiency. Not to generalize but Cops like to abuse their power, they know people have little they can do so they get away with things all the time. Why? I don't know...
Equinox, I don't think you should have received a ticket for riding down the hill. As long as you are only putting your self in danger, then I don't have a problem with it. Best thing to do, if you ever see a Cop getting ready to write you a ticket, is to plead for a "Warning".
My ticket was so lame. I saw him at the bottom of the hill and I put on my brakes. When he pulled out after me I couldn't believe it. I was going to ask for a warning, but I missed my opportunity. Why do they always ask that STUPID question,"Do you know why I pulled you over?" My ticket was 1000% a money grab, pure and simple. Five seconds with the prosecutor;"Parking Violation, $100. Next."
Equinox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-13, 10:05 AM   #22
I-Like-To-Bike
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Posts: 23,859
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Equinox View Post
Why do you suppose he gave me a ticket?
You already know the reason and posted it; 12 mph over the limit. Do you believe a motorist should/would be exempt at 12 mph over if clocked by the LEO? How much over the speed limit would you like to be exempt?
I-Like-To-Bike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-13, 10:13 AM   #23
GP 
Senior Member
 
GP's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Bikes:
Posts: 7,582
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
You already know the reason and posted it; 12 mph over the limit. Do you believe a motorist should/would be exempt at 12 mph over if clocked by the LEO? How much over the speed limit would you like to be exempt?
But he's a highly skilled and experienced driver. The cop should have recognized those qualities and let him speed by.
GP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-13, 10:16 AM   #24
GP 
Senior Member
 
GP's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Bikes:
Posts: 7,582
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Equinox View Post
My ticket was so lame. I saw him at the bottom of the hill and I put on my brakes. When he pulled out after me I couldn't believe it. I was going to ask for a warning, but I missed my opportunity. Why do they always ask that STUPID question,"Do you know why I pulled you over?" My ticket was 1000% a money grab, pure and simple. Five seconds with the prosecutor;"Parking Violation, $100. Next."
That's why you got the ticket. If you would have sped up and waved, the cop would have known you were a good driver and let you slide. You showed weakness.
GP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-13, 11:17 AM   #25
Equinox
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 803
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 75 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
You already know the reason and posted it; 12 mph over the limit. Do you believe a motorist should/would be exempt at 12 mph over if clocked by the LEO? How much over the speed limit would you like to be exempt?
We could get into a whole big philosophical argument here. As long as we agree, as the prosecutor did, that in this case, it was nothing to do with safety and everything to do about money.
Equinox is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:38 AM.