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-   -   Aftera Crash, Why Don't LEOs Give Tickets? (http://www.bikeforums.net/advocacy-safety/916691-aftera-crash-why-dont-leos-give-tickets.html)

Equinox 10-06-13 03:30 PM

Aftera Crash, Why Don't LEOs Give Tickets?
 
My friend was hit by a car that turned left in front of him. The driver clearly failed to yield the right of way;no ticket. I was in a park and i saw a runner get hit by a car. He was running in the designated lane for runners and bikes when an old man came up from behind and hit the guy. Witnessing that, everything was surreal and in slow motion. The guy flew up and hit the junction of the roof and the window with his head and I think he hit his head on the pavement when he fell off the car. The guy's head was actually dented. Cops came and basically did nothing. I told the cop to check the driver for alcohol, because if he wasn't drunk, he doesn't know how to drive. Cop told me to shut up. I was there the whole time and the cops never did a thing. Why is that? In both cases, the drivers were 100% wrong.

turbo1889 10-06-13 04:10 PM

Because cops are not unbiased angels and mostly being motorists themselves and surrounded by a society that has an "it was just an accident" mentality when it comes to people not treating automobiles as the dangerous machines they are and showing appropriate due regard for the lives, health, and property of innocents they are naturally biased towards the same view point. Most don't even realize they are.

Pibber 10-06-13 04:29 PM

i agree with turbo1889. in my accident, which i'm still pursuing legal avenues, the officer cited neither myself or the driver, but has told the driver's insurance company i was at fault.

if you can, find the victims and offer to be a witness if they need one at a trial or hearing. your testimony is priceless. seriously.

Equinox 10-06-13 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbo1889 (Post 16137872)
Because cops are not unbiased angels and mostly being motorists themselves and surrounded by a society that has an "it was just an accident" mentality when it comes to people not treating automobiles as the dangerous machines they are and showing appropriate due regard for the lives, health, and property of innocents they are naturally biased towards the same view point. Most don't even realize they are.

I'm gonna disagree. Beautiful Sunday afternoon. No traffic. excellent road. well maintained vehicle. highly skilled, unimpaired and experienced driver going DOWNHILL at 57 in a 45. LEO at the BOTTOM of the hill cites me. If the LEO had the perspective you purport, he would say, this is a bull**** ticket and leave me alone.
You're probably right though. when it comes to car v. other user, they are biased to the car. But there are NOT accidents!

I-Like-To-Bike 10-06-13 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Equinox (Post 16137972)
I'm gonna disagree. Beautiful Sunday afternoon. No traffic. excellent road. well maintained vehicle. highly skilled, unimpaired and experienced driver going DOWNHILL at 57 in a 45. LEO at the BOTTOM of the hill cites me. If the LEO had the perspective you purport, he would say, this is a bull**** ticket and leave me alone.!

You were driving 12 mph over the limit and believe the LEO gave you a **** ticket and should have left you alone?

Why, because you were going DOWNHILL? Because it was beautiful weather and you were unimpaired? Huh?

You must not be as experienced a road user as you think you are.

genec 10-06-13 05:19 PM

Situations vary. I was in a collision where a motorist left a stop sign early and we collided. LEO cited the driver for failing to yield ROW at a stop. So it isn't as if motorists are never cited. And certainly motorists are often not cited at automobile/automobile collisions when the LEO decides it was "just an accident."

Frankly I feel that any "accident" is really a collision where someone failed to follow the rules, and someone should be ticketed when ever a collision occurs.

Equinox 10-06-13 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike (Post 16137986)
You were driving 12 mph over the limit and believe the LEO gave you a **** ticket and should have left you alone?

Why, because you were going DOWNHILL? Because it was beautiful weather and you were unimpaired? Huh?

You must not be as experienced a road user as you think you are.

Why do you suppose he gave me a ticket?

alaskanb3arcub 10-06-13 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turkey9186 (Post 16138018)
I am usually against going that route, but plan on contacting an attorney tomorrow.
JB

And don't say another word about it online until the case is done(as the sticky says).

KonAaron Snake 10-06-13 06:15 PM

It's a conspiracy...they're out to get us!!!

The real answer to your question is that most of the time they don't see the accident or any behavior to ticket. They write down what it looks like when they got there...what the people say...and leave it as a civil matter.

dynodonn 10-06-13 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KonAaron Snake (Post 16138139)
The real answer to your question is that most of the time they don't see the accident or any behavior to ticket. They write down what it looks like when they got there...what the people say...and leave it as a civil matter.


After seeing how a number of civil matters turned out, doing nothing on the LEO's part is still a bunch of bull****.

DX-MAN 10-06-13 06:31 PM

Some have pointed out, when this has come up in other threads, that a ticket negates any further prosecution, should more serious charges be warranted later, AFTER an investigation. Of course, "investigations" are usually something of a joke (just ask SF), so that point may be a little thin.

walrus1 10-06-13 06:31 PM

It's my understanding it's because of three reasons in NYC

1. As @turbo1889 it's car based bias. A disportionate amount of NYC's public employees drive and live on Long Island, upstate, or in car centred parts of Brooklyn and Queens or even in NJ. They often don't understand how bikes are legitimate form of transportation and fail to see the danger cars posse to them.

2. Police have very strict ticket quotas either official or unofficial. In NYC they tend to focus on things like open containers, turnstile jumping, anything related to bicycles :mad: and drug tickets tend to be their favorite.

3. Tickets= work for cops. They have to document the incident and might be pulled into court. Unless their CO forces them to a cop [strike]might be[/strike] most definitely will be reluctant to make more work for themselves.

MMACH 5 10-06-13 06:37 PM

I think the lack of tickets applies more in multi-vehicle collisions. They probably expect insurance or lawyers to hash out the details.
As a teenager, I had two single-vehicle accidents. I totaled both cars and the police showed up and ticketed me for the accidents. Having to pay the fines only added insult to injury.

Chris516 10-06-13 07:31 PM

LEO's only want to cite cyclists'. If cyclists' are hit or even killed by a motorist, LEOs' won't cite the motorist. The case in L.A. back in 2010 where Dr. Christopher Thompson was convicted and sent to prison for intentionally stopping in front cyclists' in the midst of road rage. The fact that the doctor was even arrested when no LEOs' where in the area to visually see it happen, is more than a stroke of luck. I keep encountering LEO's who give the excuse that they had to see it happen which is hogwash.:notamused:

dynodonn 10-06-13 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris516 (Post 16138351)
LEO's only want to cite cyclists'. If cyclists' are hit or even killed by a motorist, LEOs' won't cite the motorist. The case in L.A. back in 2010 where Dr. Christopher Thompson was convicted and sent to prison for intentionally stopping in front cyclists' in the midst of road rage. The fact that the doctor was even arrested when no LEOs' where in the area to visually see it happen, is more than a stroke of luck. I keep encountering LEO's who give the excuse that they had to see it happen which is hogwash.:notamused:

The "Good Doctor" would have got away with it if a previous incident hadn't been documented, and even that previous documentation had to be brought to law enforcements attention by one of the cyclist's lawyers.

I-Like-To-Bike 10-07-13 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris516 (Post 16138351)
I keep encountering LEO's who give the excuse that they had to see it happen which is hogwash.:notamused:

Where and/or why do you keep having such encounters? Are you really involved in that many collisions with automobiles?

HonestOne 10-07-13 01:24 AM

I like Cops, even though they have harassed me various times and rarely see them doing their job at 100% efficiency. Not to generalize but Cops like to abuse their power, they know people have little they can do so they get away with things all the time. Why? I don't know...
Equinox, I don't think you should have received a ticket for riding down the hill. As long as you are only putting your self in danger, then I don't have a problem with it. Best thing to do, if you ever see a Cop getting ready to write you a ticket, is to plead for a "Warning".

Chris516 10-07-13 03:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike (Post 16138836)
Where and/or why do you keep having such encounters? Are you really involved in that many collisions with automobiles?

No, I am referring to after the fact. A perfect example is a drunk driver. If a motorist calls it in, the police won't say that they had to see it. But if a cyclist makes the same call, the police will make the same 'priority' excuse.

rydabent 10-07-13 07:23 AM

If there are two people involved it was not an accident. Someone was in the wrong.

Somehow we need to get the police by the idea that since it involves a bike there is not a problem.

mconlonx 10-07-13 08:59 AM

If you listen to auto drivers, they will claim that LEO has ticket quotas regarding vehicle tickets, that tagging cars is nothing more than "revenue enhancement," i.e., they are unfairly ticketing cars doing illegal things not to keep people safe, but for the money it brings into municipal coffers.

Which flies in the face of cyclist claims that LEO is hesitant to ticket auto-driving scofflaws (who give other drivers a bad name!).

Equinox 10-07-13 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HonestOne (Post 16138867)
I like Cops, even though they have harassed me various times and rarely see them doing their job at 100% efficiency. Not to generalize but Cops like to abuse their power, they know people have little they can do so they get away with things all the time. Why? I don't know...
Equinox, I don't think you should have received a ticket for riding down the hill. As long as you are only putting your self in danger, then I don't have a problem with it. Best thing to do, if you ever see a Cop getting ready to write you a ticket, is to plead for a "Warning".

My ticket was so lame. I saw him at the bottom of the hill and I put on my brakes. When he pulled out after me I couldn't believe it. I was going to ask for a warning, but I missed my opportunity. Why do they always ask that STUPID question,"Do you know why I pulled you over?" My ticket was 1000% a money grab, pure and simple. Five seconds with the prosecutor;"Parking Violation, $100. Next."

I-Like-To-Bike 10-07-13 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Equinox (Post 16138110)
Why do you suppose he gave me a ticket?

You already know the reason and posted it; 12 mph over the limit. Do you believe a motorist should/would be exempt at 12 mph over if clocked by the LEO? How much over the speed limit would you like to be exempt?

GP 10-07-13 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike (Post 16139721)
You already know the reason and posted it; 12 mph over the limit. Do you believe a motorist should/would be exempt at 12 mph over if clocked by the LEO? How much over the speed limit would you like to be exempt?

But he's a highly skilled and experienced driver. The cop should have recognized those qualities and let him speed by.

GP 10-07-13 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Equinox (Post 16139692)
My ticket was so lame. I saw him at the bottom of the hill and I put on my brakes. When he pulled out after me I couldn't believe it. I was going to ask for a warning, but I missed my opportunity. Why do they always ask that STUPID question,"Do you know why I pulled you over?" My ticket was 1000% a money grab, pure and simple. Five seconds with the prosecutor;"Parking Violation, $100. Next."

That's why you got the ticket. If you would have sped up and waved, the cop would have known you were a good driver and let you slide. You showed weakness.

Equinox 10-07-13 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike (Post 16139721)
You already know the reason and posted it; 12 mph over the limit. Do you believe a motorist should/would be exempt at 12 mph over if clocked by the LEO? How much over the speed limit would you like to be exempt?

We could get into a whole big philosophical argument here. As long as we agree, as the prosecutor did, that in this case, it was nothing to do with safety and everything to do about money.


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