Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10-10-13, 01:49 PM   #1
Number400
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Number400's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Central PA
Bikes: Cannondale Slate 105 and T2 tandem, 2008 Scott Addict R4, GT Timberline, Raleigh SC drop bar tandem
Posts: 924
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Wow, the "I was too drunk defense" in action

IMHO, all of the choices and decisions prior them killing innocent people were easy to make and all the mayhem could have been avoided. It's pretty simple. If you are going to drink or do drugs, then hide your car keys or maybe do a little planning beforehand.

Cars are now advanced enough to where they could not be drivable unless you can pass some sort of quick test before it will start.

http://news.msn.com/crime-justice/co...murder-defense
Number400 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-13, 05:06 PM   #2
HawkOwl
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Bikes:
Posts: 2,635
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Unless the Judge in this case is of the same stripe as the one in the r.a.p.e. case in another state this will turn out to be just smoke. As far back as the early 1980's the "Too Drunk" defense was denied by state supreme courts. Those cases were primarily intoxicated driving cases where murder or manslaughter convictions were involved.

Still, the judiciary doesn't have the most sterling reputation regarding justice vs. the arcane rules of the court system.

Last edited by HawkOwl; 10-10-13 at 05:08 PM. Reason: Automatic Censor inappropriately deleted a word.
HawkOwl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-13, 05:13 PM   #3
unterhausen
Randomhead
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Bikes:
Posts: 14,655
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
I can't imagine being so intoxicated that I didn't know what I was doing.
unterhausen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-13, 07:26 PM   #4
DX-MAN
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Bikes:
Posts: 4,789
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
I can't imagine being so intoxicated that I didn't know what I was doing.
Drink 2 water glasses brimming with bourbon in an hour's time....you'll learn what it's like. Or go to a strip bar, order a couple pitchers, and don't use a glass. You'll wonder......... Once, I ended up 'hugging the throne' all night, the other I 'baptized' the parking lot, and wouldn't let anyone pick me up so we could all leave.

But I'm feeling MUCH BETTER NOW......!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWz-tBU6_L0
DX-MAN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-13, 07:08 AM   #5
rydabent
Senior Member
 
rydabent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Lincoln Ne
Bikes: RANS Stratus TerraTrike Cruiser
Posts: 5,747
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 154 Post(s)
I have heard of this defense in the last few days. If that is the way the defendent wants to plead, he should lose his drivers license for life.
rydabent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-13, 07:38 AM   #6
himespau 
Senior Member
 
himespau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Louisville, KY
Bikes:
Posts: 9,580
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 113 Post(s)
I have to give big respect to the prosecutor for saying getting behind the wheel while drunk is acting in "depraved indifference to human life". If all prosecutors felt the same, we'd be a lot safer.
himespau is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-13, 07:44 AM   #7
dynodonn 
Senior Member
 
dynodonn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 7,326
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 51 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by DX-MAN View Post
Drink 2 water glasses brimming with bourbon in an hour's time....you'll learn what it's like. Or go to a strip bar, order a couple pitchers, and don't use a glass. You'll wonder......... Once, I ended up 'hugging the throne' all night, the other I 'baptized' the parking lot, and wouldn't let anyone pick me up so we could all leave.

But I'm feeling MUCH BETTER NOW......!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWz-tBU6_L0
Still wouldn't be the same, I'd still remember what I did up until I passed out. BTDT.
dynodonn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-13, 09:21 AM   #8
mconlonx 
Nobody
 
mconlonx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 7,148
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 612 Post(s)
Which one of the three in the article hit and killed a bicyclist...?
__________________
I know next to nothing. I am frequently wrong.
mconlonx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-13, 09:25 AM   #9
Number400
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Number400's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Central PA
Bikes: Cannondale Slate 105 and T2 tandem, 2008 Scott Addict R4, GT Timberline, Raleigh SC drop bar tandem
Posts: 924
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Why, is a dead pedestrian not good enough for you?
Number400 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-13, 09:42 AM   #10
rumrunn6
Senior Member
 
rumrunn6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: 25 miles northwest of Boston
Bikes: Bottecchia Sprint
Posts: 14,250
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 155 Post(s)
http://www.library.unt.edu/gpo/OTA/walk/forum/forum.htm
rumrunn6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-13, 09:47 AM   #11
I-Like-To-Bike
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Posts: 23,848
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rumrunn6 View Post
The cited organization has links to its "Roadshow" schedule with the coming dates in 1999. Apparently not much activity or energy is being expended on the subject.

Recommend that this thread be moved to some more appropriate discussion list since there is no bicycling safety nor bicycling advocacy content.
I-Like-To-Bike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-13, 09:51 AM   #12
daihard 
Senior Member
 
daihard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Seattle, WA
Bikes: Trek, Cannondale
Posts: 1,878
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by himespau View Post
I have to give big respect to the prosecutor for saying getting behind the wheel while drunk is acting in "depraved indifference to human life". If all prosecutors felt the same, we'd be a lot safer.
This.

Quote:
Defense attorneys argued prosecutors failed to prove their clients acted with depraved indifference and, in fact, their clients were too impaired to know what they were doing.

Looks like you need to sell your soul to the devil in order to become a successful defence lawyer...
__________________

The value of your life doesn't change based on the way you travel. - Dawn Schellenberg (SDOT)
daihard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-13, 09:54 AM   #13
Number400
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Number400's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Central PA
Bikes: Cannondale Slate 105 and T2 tandem, 2008 Scott Addict R4, GT Timberline, Raleigh SC drop bar tandem
Posts: 924
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rumrunn6 View Post
Yes?? And the word bicycling appears four times in your link.

When you are walking your bicycle across the street, are you a pedestrian?

The point is that drunk drivers can kill anyone and do every day. ANY efforts of drunk or impaired drivers to reduce their sentences after KILLING someone is a bad thing for cyclists and everyone else out there too, so let's ADVOCATE tougher drunk/impaired driving laws to protect the SAFETY of bicyclists. It also helps that people found guilty of this actually do their time.

In recent years, the Federal Highway Administration (FHWA) has developed a new, expanded statement of policy regarding walking and bicycling. FHWA has taken the position that walking and bicycling are legitimate modes of transportation that have too long been the "forgotten modes," and this should change. The goals that have been set are:
  • reduce the current number of walking and bicycling injuries and fatalities by 10%, and
  • double the percentage of trips made by walking and bicycling.
The Pedestrian Forum is a quarterly newsletter with the objective of informing the Field Offices of pedestrian issues such as research and development, new and revised regulations, programs, innovative projects, successful test and evaluation, etc.

http://www.justdrivepa.org/traffic-s...strian-safety/

Last edited by Number400; 10-11-13 at 10:06 AM.
Number400 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-13, 11:03 AM   #14
mconlonx 
Nobody
 
mconlonx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 7,148
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 612 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Number400 View Post
Why, is a dead pedestrian not good enough for you?
This isn't PedestrianForums.net...
__________________
I know next to nothing. I am frequently wrong.
mconlonx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-13, 11:05 AM   #15
mconlonx 
Nobody
 
mconlonx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 7,148
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 612 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Number400 View Post
Yes?? And the word bicycling appears four times in your link.

When you are walking your bicycle across the street, are you a pedestrian?

The point is that drunk drivers can kill anyone and do every day. ANY efforts of drunk or impaired drivers to reduce their sentences after KILLING someone is a bad thing for cyclists and everyone else out there too, so let's ADVOCATE tougher drunk/impaired driving laws to protect the SAFETY of bicyclists. It also helps that people found guilty of this actually do their time.

In recent years, the Federal Highway Administration (FHWA) has developed a new, expanded statement of policy regarding walking and bicycling. FHWA has taken the position that walking and bicycling are legitimate modes of transportation that have too long been the "forgotten modes," and this should change. The goals that have been set are:
  • reduce the current number of walking and bicycling injuries and fatalities by 10%, and
  • double the percentage of trips made by walking and bicycling.
The Pedestrian Forum is a quarterly newsletter with the objective of informing the Field Offices of pedestrian issues such as research and development, new and revised regulations, programs, innovative projects, successful test and evaluation, etc.

http://www.justdrivepa.org/traffic-s...strian-safety/
And I contend that tougher drunk/impaired laws are detrimental to more generally toughening up distracted and reckless driving laws.
__________________
I know next to nothing. I am frequently wrong.
mconlonx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-13, 11:10 AM   #16
howsteepisit
Senior Member
 
howsteepisit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Eugene, OR
Bikes: Mecian
Posts: 3,749
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 96 Post(s)
Perhaps a drunk driving form? Only bicycle content is only tangent to the main topic - move or delete thread please.
howsteepisit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-13, 12:53 PM   #17
Chris516
24-Speed Machine
 
Chris516's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Wash. Grove, MD
Bikes: 2003 Specialized Allez 24-Speed Road Bike
Posts: 6,054
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
He knew what he was doing. Life w/o parole. End of story!!!!
Chris516 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-13, 01:52 PM   #18
I-Like-To-Bike
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Posts: 23,848
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by howsteepisit View Post
Perhaps a drunk driving form? Only bicycle content is only tangent to the main topic - move or delete thread please.
Better yet move it to a new sticky called Rants in General about Evil and Wicked Cagers; sticky should also include all ranting about cell phone use.
I-Like-To-Bike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-13, 04:33 PM   #19
Spld cyclist 
Senior Member
 
Spld cyclist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Springfield, MA
Bikes: 2012 Motobecane Fantom CXX, 2012 Motobecane Fantom CX, 1997 Bianchi Nyala, 200? Burley Rock 'n Roll
Posts: 1,063
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I think this thread is completely topical to the A&S forum. Whether or not governments take a hard line on drunk drivers, making real efforts to catch them and levying harsh punishments, is absolutely essential to cyclist safety. It doesn't matter that the victims in these cases weren't cyclists. Government enforcement of drunk driving laws makes all citizens safer.
Spld cyclist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-13, 05:33 PM   #20
howsteepisit
Senior Member
 
howsteepisit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Eugene, OR
Bikes: Mecian
Posts: 3,749
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 96 Post(s)
And there are thousands of other public safety laws too. Just because a law pertains to public safety, and cyclists are a subset of the public doesn't mean that a discussion of public safety laws should be a pert of cycling advocacy and safety. Obviously some feel otherwise.
howsteepisit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-13, 05:39 PM   #21
Spld cyclist 
Senior Member
 
Spld cyclist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Springfield, MA
Bikes: 2012 Motobecane Fantom CXX, 2012 Motobecane Fantom CX, 1997 Bianchi Nyala, 200? Burley Rock 'n Roll
Posts: 1,063
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
If we were talking about sanitary codes as they apply to restaurants, I would agree with you. Someone consuming e-coli from an undercooked hamburger is unlikely to result in a cyclist being flattened by an SUV. On the other hand, drunk driving regularly results in cyclists being flattened by SUVs.
Spld cyclist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-13, 10:07 PM   #22
I-Like-To-Bike
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Posts: 23,848
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spld cyclist View Post
If we were talking about sanitary codes as they apply to restaurants, I would agree with you. Someone consuming e-coli from an undercooked hamburger is unlikely to result in a cyclist being flattened by an SUV. On the other hand, drunk driving regularly results in cyclists being flattened by SUVs.
Since you also seem to have an issue with SUV's, why not a special law against getting drunk while driving an SUV, or conversely reduced penalties if driving drunk in a compact car.
BTW, where do pick up trucks driven by sober drivers rate on your scale of cyclist flattening threats?
I-Like-To-Bike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-13, 10:32 PM   #23
plustax
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Bikes: 90's Campione,90's trek multitrack,2005 trek 3700
Posts: 218
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Depends on the use. If someone commutes with it and never goes off road in their f-350 then they get an extra ten years in the slammer versus the contractor who hauls his stuff in it.

It's the only fair way.
plustax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-13, 10:16 AM   #24
howsteepisit
Senior Member
 
howsteepisit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Eugene, OR
Bikes: Mecian
Posts: 3,749
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 96 Post(s)
How about when the SUV driver, having eaten an undercooked e. coli laden burger suffers from projectile vomiting soaking an innocent cyclist and running over two other cyclists? I guess thats a topic thats Ok for the A&S forum,

Actually I recant all I have said, just because I and others don't feel its an appropriate A&S topics, some others do feel like is is applicable. Since a forum is no more than the posters/members, it is up to you to make it an active thread or not. Carry on!

Last edited by howsteepisit; 10-12-13 at 10:19 AM. Reason: Rethinking the point of a forum
howsteepisit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-13, 08:17 PM   #25
DX-MAN
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Bikes:
Posts: 4,789
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
I can't imagine being so intoxicated that I didn't know what I was doing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DX-MAN View Post
Drink 2 water glasses brimming with bourbon in an hour's time....you'll learn what it's like. Or go to a strip bar, order a couple pitchers, and don't use a glass. You'll wonder......... Once, I ended up 'hugging the throne' all night, the other I 'baptized' the parking lot, and wouldn't let anyone pick me up so we could all leave.

But I'm feeling MUCH BETTER NOW......!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWz-tBU6_L0
Quote:
Originally Posted by dynodonn View Post
Still wouldn't be the same, I'd still remember what I did up until I passed out. BTDT.
I didn't; after the 2nd pitcher of beer, the next thing I remember was being told by the bartender that I had to either stop trying to paw the dancers or leave. BTDT, don't wanna do it again.
DX-MAN is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:25 AM.