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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by achoo View Post
    Fixed that for reality.
    No you didn't fix it for reality when my point was about the kinds of things rides like Critical Mass do, not what an individual commuter on a bike does. The point I am making, and that people keep (deliberately, I think) ignoring is that you can complain all you want about motorists hating you and how this one time (or ten) this mean guy in this big truck... But the reality is that a huge majority of motorists really don't care if we are on the road or not as long as we don't go out of our way to get in their way and slow them down. Where we make new enemies is with rides like Critical Mass. The kinds of activities engaged in by people on CM rides and some other group rides take motorists who used to not care about cyclists and makes them into cyclist haters. So if you are riding that way and deliberately flouting laws and not being courteous to drivers, you are no better than the guy in the truck coal-rolling every cyclist he sees. You have to give respect to get it, and if you hate them and demonstrate it, you have no right to expect anything but the same in return.

  2. #102
    bill nyecycles the sci guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by txags92 View Post
    No you didn't fix it for reality when my point was about the kinds of things rides like Critical Mass do, not what an individual commuter on a bike does. The point I am making, and that people keep (deliberately, I think) ignoring is that you can complain all you want about motorists hating you and how this one time (or ten) this mean guy in this big truck... But the reality is that a huge majority of motorists really don't care if we are on the road or not as long as we don't go out of our way to get in their way and slow them down. Where we make new enemies is with rides like Critical Mass. The kinds of activities engaged in by people on CM rides and some other group rides take motorists who used to not care about cyclists and makes them into cyclist haters. So if you are riding that way and deliberately flouting laws and not being courteous to drivers, you are no better than the guy in the truck coal-rolling every cyclist he sees. You have to give respect to get it, and if you hate them and demonstrate it, you have no right to expect anything but the same in return.
    you been following the CM hoopla here in Houston? I'm curious how tomorrow night is going to go. I wasn't going to make this one my first one

    IMO, the largest reason people dislike bikers is because of roadies. (preface: not all of them, obvi)
    most casual bikers, and even bikers that ride in things like Critical Mass, are not the types of people who will be out on the road in traffic. They are the types of people who are riding casually on MUPs, or are in the woods doing trails - where there is obviously no traffic.
    but roadies seems to have this sense of entitlement. they also seem to think that stopping at lights or, god forbid, slowing down will completely destroy their ride, or their training, or whatever excuse it is they have for being out there. (sidebar: i cannot believe that all the people I see in their spandex riding like the wind are actually training for a real race or a triathlon or something - IMO it's just a lot of wannabes making it worse for the rest of us).

    I love biking, and i am for bike equality and all that jazz, but jesus christ people, you have to give a little attention to the environment around you. don't ride 2 or 3 wide on a single lane road when there is traffic. its fine if there isn't, but when cars come, fall behind one another. its not hard. i ride side by side with my wife on the MUP all the time, but when i see someone come up behind us in my mirror, or i see a biker or runner approaching ahead, we slide back to single file. if you're out on the road on your own, don't plow through red lights, or thread your way through traffic. STOP. SLOW DOWN. You aren't entitled. Drivers won't always give you the right of way - even if it is yours. i see it all the time when i am driving around - guys haulin ass just blowing through stoplights and dodging cars all in the name of keeping their cadence up or whatever.

    Look, i'm not a racer, but even if i was, i would still exercise common sense. common sense dictates stopping at an intersection where traffic can come from every which way. it means waiting for the cross signal, or the green light. it means making sure the cars that can directly affect you are aware you're there. they won't be aware you're coming if they are stopped at a light and you zoom up from back and just shoot out through the intersection. but if you slowed, and pulled up alongside them and stopped at the light - it's apparent you're there, and that you're going to go through when the light turns green.

    something that MIGHT alleviate the situation - just give a look at the driver and see if they wave you ahead, or if you yourself wave the driver on. all it takes is a little communication and accidents and confrontations can be avoided. When I was commuting on the road I was constantly making eye contact with the drivers so they knew i was aware they were there, and they were aware i was there, and we could figure out how to get by. but roadies are trapped in their own little world. they don't look, acknowledge, or care. until something happens and then they get pissed and start kicking and pounding on hoods and doors.

    now, this situation with this old guy, obviously he's got some issues.

    but in the end, what it comes down to, is a lot of cyclists getting off their goddamn high horse. if you don't give motorists anything to complain about - then this entire thing is a non-issue. (aside from the handful of crazies out there.)
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  3. #103
    Senior Member dynodonn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeyBike View Post
    I find that NOT obeying so many rules helps me stay ahead of the traffic AND running a video camera fixes the rest.
    In my locale, it's faster to travel by auto, and even if I operated in a manner similar to yours, it wouldn't be very long before traffic caught up with me anyway. So operating according to the rules of the road pays dividends for me, in my locale.

  4. #104
    Senior Member dynodonn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the sci guy View Post
    but in the end, what it comes down to, is a lot of cyclists getting off their goddamn high horse. if you don't give motorists anything to complain about - then this entire thing is a non-issue. (aside from the handful of crazies out there.)
    Geezus, I'm trying to get down the road on my bike, not riding a ****ing high horse..... a number of motorists will ***** no matter how I ride my bike, and I ride according to the rules of the road.

  5. #105
    Senior Member dougmc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the sci guy View Post
    you been following the CM hoopla here in Houston? I'm curious how tomorrow night is going to go. I wasn't going to make this one my first one
    If you wait for the perfect one to make your first ... it just never happens. (And this applies to many things in life.)

    The usual advice applies ... if you don't like what you find, leave. Or stay, either to admonish others or to lead by example. All rides are what the riders make them, and if you're there ... you get input on how things are too.

  6. #106
    ♋ ☮♂ ☭ ☯ -=(8)=-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeyBike View Post
    Blocking the road, which I strive to NEVER do, is rude and extremely dangerous to everyone involved. I strive to stay out of the way. I mostly succeed in a city setting. In the country/burbs I ride alone or single file with some buds making it LOOK like I am trying to stay out of the way of traffic. Most sane motorists can tell when a cyclist is DOING THEIR BEST to let auto traffic go by.





    Giving the finger (if this actually happened) to someone who can catch you/run you over/shoot you is just dumb. Then leaning a bike on that guy's truck is remarkably stupid.



    I have edited hundreds of videos. I show what I want to get a certain reaction and can the rest. Where is the video of the minutes BEFORE the baseball bat came out?

    I see a bunch of rude, idiot roadies interacting with a stupid old man. This stuff happens EVERY weekend somewhere in the USofA. And I have to suffer the price of being associated with THAT breed of cyclist just because I ride a bike to work.



    The cartoon character of an old man doesn't get a pass on being a violent imbecile, but roadie gangs are the biggest antagonizer of the public if going by newspaper and anecdotal-personal experience. I remember the hysteria(I read about here, on BF) when Jupiter Island was going to be closed to cyclists. There was hyper-poutrage. Not realizing what was precipitating this possible action, I went to the public meeting with intent on defending cycling on the island, but once there, couldn't. Video after video from police cars and homeowners documenting the group thuggery. All tis is in keeping with what I've seen in spandex gang behavior from Vermont to South Florida and inward. Share the road means for cyclists, too.
    Last edited by -=(8)=-; 10-25-13 at 06:02 AM.

  7. #107
    Senior Member Notgrownup's Avatar
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    The only good thing to come out of this will be the guy getting a new $5000 bike...I sure there is 2 sides to every story but this is what we saw... Hard to say anything against this video, no matter what happened before...Not sure what set the old fart off but He obviously has anger issues... I would be curious to see what actually happened before this....I guess we won't know. for sure with video evidence anyway. Glad nobody got seriously injured ...
    BE THE PERSON YOUR DOG THINKS YOU ARE.....

  8. #108
    Senior Member kookaburra1701's Avatar
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    OK, normally I'd say "NEVER READ THE COMMENTS" but "LocalDrifter" had me in stitches. I want to buy him a beer.
    2014 Specialized Dolce, 1987 Schwinn Tempo, 2012 Windsor Kensington 8

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by txags92 View Post
    See...it really can work both ways. Which hatred comes first is a chicken or egg kind of problem.
    Nope. Critical Mass didn't originate in a vacuum. Motorist entitlement, hatred and outright killing of cyclists led to the CM movement two dozen years ago. Maybe you had to be there, but something had to give. Cyclists were disappearing either by being killed or by intimidation. To make matters worse, the SF cyclists who started CM were responding to motorists who weren't even residents of The City. They were fighting to make their community more livable and, if real estate values are any indicator, have succeeded beyond their wildest dreams.

    So, to set the record straight:

    1.The egg preceded the chicken. (Come on, this is basic biology.)
    2. Motorist hatred/entitlement preceded CM and other cyclist responses.

    (For what it's worth, I don't CM, unless I happen to be out riding and one is going my way.)

  10. #110
    Senior Member AC1074's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by genec View Post
    How do you react when someone has thrown a full can of beer at your head? How do you react when someone comes up and smokes you with their diesel truck? How do you react when someone leans out a car window and slaps you?

    These are just a few of the incidents that you "have to be a bigger person for, eh?"
    Yes exactly. Now there is difference between what I am talking about and an assault. There are inherited risks that come with cycling as with anything else. Thinking by your logic if someone throws a beer at you or "smokes" you in with their truck that gives you the right to follow them & confront them? I would do the complete opposite and avoid any further encounters. Your kind of mentality is what cyclists need to get away from because one of these days a cyclist is going to get seriously hurt or killed for trying to deliver a roadside lecture on how to share the roads. It's not worth it. How do you react you ask? Continue on your way and be observant of whats going on around you.
    Last edited by AC1074; 10-28-13 at 02:31 AM.

  11. #111
    genec genec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AC1074 View Post
    Yes exactly. Now there is difference between what I am talking about and an assault. There are inherited risks that come with cycling as with anything else. Thinking by your logic if someone throws a beer at you or "smokes" you in with their truck that gives you the right to follow them & confront them? I would do the complete opposite and avoid any further encounters. Your kind of mentality is what cyclists need to get away from because one of these days a cyclist is going to get seriously hurt or killed for trying to deliver a roadside lecture on how to share the roads. It's not worth it. How do you react you ask? Continue on your way and be observant of whats going on around you.

    I am not suggesting retaliation in any way... merely that, unlike other road users, cyclists are targeted. I have never been yelled at or had things pitched at me while driving or walking.

    And I love that "continue on your way" comment... guess you've never been hit by a thrown can of beer... it really hurts and can cause serious injury.

  12. #112
    Senior Member dynodonn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AC1074 View Post
    ....... Continue on your way and be observant of whats going on around you.
    Whether I'm walking, driving, or bicycling, I am observant of what is going on around me to the best of my ability. I too will now continue on my way after an incident, if I'm physically able to, and depending on the incident, when I get home and down load my videos, if there is sufficient information then I'll report the offending motorist to law enforcement.

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