rydabent

There is a lot of time and words expended on cycling forums about cyclist "taking the lane". It is followed by a bunch of drivers whining about being slowed down for a few seconds until it is safe to pass.

What is the difference between a cyclist, a slow driver, or maybe a tractor pulling a wagon?

Knotdodger

Being a slow driver, or running your tractor,
you stand a better chance of living when you
get mowed over by someone texting.
I spend hours per day for my job , driving around
Detroit. Seems like I see more than 50 percent on
their smartphones texting. I drive 80,000 plus miles
per year. That is my observations.

Rob.

Looigi

Cyclists are more vulnerable and more universally reviled.

Knotdodger

P.S.

The cyclist's I see, I give them all the time they need.
If I pass, I give them the whole lane.
I do see a lot of cyclist's also. And only around 10 percent ,
if that are wearing a helmet. And that is in the distressed neighborhoods,
and the gated neighborhoods.

turbo1889

Hit Nail On Head.

B. Carfree

It's pretty funny, in a not-so-funny way, when motorists pass me poorly and honk to express their anger over having to adjust to my presence only to have me catch up to them when we are both forced to follow a convoy of tractors/harvesters. For some reason, they don't honk or get visibly upset at the tractors/harvesters, which are rather difficult to pass since they obscure the sight line, but a person on a bike is cause for a near-coronary.

I-Like-To-Bike

More universally despised? Get over the self pity and badge of victimhood

B. Carfree

One can acknowledge a situation without wallowing in self-pity. Perhaps you are projecting.

gsa103

The average cyclist is probably ~15 mph. Even slow drivers are 20+ mph. The only thing close is farm tractors or heavy equipment, which are usually on the roads for short distances. Everyone understands that a guy in a tractor isn't out joyriding, he's just trying to earn a paycheck.

To many drivers, a cyclist effectively occupies a 3-4ft wide box. Putting your box in the middle of the road represents a major slow-down. By the same token, cyclists who "take the lane" and pretend to own it should know that they are causing fairly significant disruption to the traffic flow. There are very good safety reasons for doing it, but used frequently it will cause issues.

Unsurprisingly, many people have the same road manners if they're in a car or on a bike. Sadly, the discussion is largely dominated by jerks on both sides. The drivers who don't want cyclists on the roads, and the cyclists who insist on taking the whole road despite being unable to keep up with the traffic.

Chris516

Image and attitude. Motorists' think cyclists' not only, are too poor to own a car. Motorists' think cyclists' are in irritant that, like a fly buzzing around your hotdog/hamburger that has ketchup, mustard, and relish, can be squashed. While no one gives it a second thought.

Chris516

That is subjective. Because, The key element regardless of 'taking the lane', is being able to maintain a reasonable speed. Pursuant to the time of day(AM/PM Rush, non-Rush), direction the cyclist is riding in(north/south), and the speed limit on a given road.

howsteepisit

I have seen many driver pretty annoyed at farm and construction equipment driving slowly. Granted not as many as seem to get really pissed at cyclists, but there is plenty of motorist angst to go around.

I-Like-To-Bike

No, I am pointing out that moaning, whining rhetoric that "Everyone is picking on Us/Me because We/I am a universally hated lowlife" is ridiculous, and doesn't become less ridiculous because some fearful people "acknowledge the situation" as being the Real Truth.™

AngeloDolce

Bicyclists may not be universally reviled among motorists, but they inspire more passion among a few motorists than other slow traffic. I've had the most vigorous profanity shouted at me to get out of the road when I was waiting at redlights, or for cars & trucks in front of me that couldn't pass the bus blocking the road. Many motorists think bicyclists should use sidewalks, or are are always required to let them pass.

Today in Philadelphia, I had a motorist honking at me repeatedly while I was driving slowly because a group of bicyclists in front of me was a bit wider than the bike lane. Since we were traveling from red light to red light I was not willing to hit them or try to pass when the lane was not wide enough, just to wait longer at the next red light.

This lasted all of 3 blocks, enough to infuriate the motorist following me, so when oncoming traffic finally cleared and I passed them, at the next light he moved into the bike lane to pass me on the right and run the red light.

Personally, I think it would have been easier if the bicyclists had just taken the lane instead of riding slowly because the bike lanes are in the door zone, but I have noticed with more bike lanes in Philadlephia many motorists are very aggressive with their opinion that bicyclists are not allowed to use the general lane; if the bike lanes are not well designed the bicyclists just have ride slowly to compensate.

The local "advocates" state the lanes are for bicyclists, but have said (at least 2000-2010) if they insist on bike lanes that are safe they won't be installed. They have said they are no longer installing door zone lanes, but (i) I'm not convinced this is true (ii) at least 90% of the existing lanes are door zone or have other problems (right of RTOL, ...). Motorists are then confused if bicyclists don't use the bike lanes, even when they are blocked by parked cars, SEPTA buses, ...

I think farm implements, Amish in Lancaster, etc. are given more respect in that they are not expected get out of the way every time a motorist wants to use the road.

rydabent

The cyclist Im talking about are cyclist that absolutely have to take the lane because there is no shoulder. And yes there are cyclist that take the lane probably just to be asses.

I am pretty sure you dont see too many 30 foot combines in down town NY or LA, but here in Nebr and the midwest they are on the roads and hiways alot. Drivers may get their shorts in a wad but they seem to be smart enough to know that their car would come out on the short end of the stick. And BTW if they crash into a $350,000 combine and damage it Im sure their insurance Co would take a dim view of it.

If drivers are so behind their schedual that a bike tractor or a slow driver gets their underlovlies in a bunch I have a saying that applies. "Poor planning on your part does not require emergency action on my part."

Looigi

Perhaps a factor is that most motorists have had childhood experience riding bikes and see them as playthings and playing whereas trucks and tractors are working. And of course we've all been taught you shouldn't play in the street.

In a sense, this is true for myself and the large majority of cyclists I know. We very rarely ride to commute or to run errands. We ride from point A to point A for amusement and exercise.

turbo1889

Again he hits the nail on the head. If we can just get the bicycle moved from the "toy" category to the "transportation" category in the minds of at least the young people then it will make a huge difference in reducing acts of criminal harassment, assault, and murder committed against cyclist by motorists moving forward into the future.

genec

From a road use standpoint... nothing.

From a frustrated drivers standpoint... it's "those damn cyclists!"

dynodonn 

......and on a later date, the same motorist will then complain to others about red light running cyclists, and on how cyclists think they are above the law.

noisebeam

A bicycle its driver are narrow and do not take up full lane width.

Dchiefransom

What's a bike tractor?

squirtdad

It is my opinion that the more we bike for errands and commuting, the more accepted as a normal day to day activity vs being a sport or recreation biking will be.

the best advocacy is to add errands and commutting to biking activity and helping other people do the same..... increase the numbers and political impact will increase.

And that it will slowly change perception form "damn cyclisty" to Or there is my cousin/neighbor/teacher/mechanic etc

FBinNY 

Absolutely right, it has nothing to do with cars vs. bicycles, so to answer the OPs question - "What's the difference?" I say nothing.

I see the same level of impatience in motorists "stuck" behind school buses, city buses, construction equipment, trucks that block the road while unloading, and even fire trucks and police cars. They're equally annoyed at accident scenes, more concerned with their lost time, than the hardships of those involved.

Folks today are very self-centered (not only motorists) and see anything in their way as simply an obstacle, and not as another person.

B. Carfree

And yet, only about 20% of all driving is for the purpose of commuting to a job. The rest is basically recreational. It seems more than a bit like the pot calling the kettle black for motorists to complain that many cyclists on the road aren't riding to work.

FBinNY 

There's more to driving than commuting or recreation. Obviously car use varies with area, and income, but here in Westchester Cty, NY a major use of cars is daily errands from shopping to taxiing children around to school, after school stuff, and weekend sports leagues. I now parents that spend at least 2-4 hours daily doing this kind of stuff.

And, while I bike commute, a still have compassion for those forced to become taxi drivers, and understand that this isn't something that can be replaced by bicycles.

I don't make judgements about how others live, or use (or not use( their cars. It's tough enough running my own life, I leave others to run theirs.