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-   -   Delaware does away with "Share the Road" (http://www.bikeforums.net/advocacy-safety/922700-delaware-does-away-share-road.html)

MMACH 5 11-18-13 09:44 AM

Delaware does away with "Share the Road"
 
This story says that Bike Delaware has been lobbying for this change since August...

August? Really?
It took roughly three months to get this policy changed?

http://streetsblog.net/2013/11/04/de...hare-the-road/

Trying to push changes through Texas DOT is a frustrating series of roadblocks and dead ends. Way to go Delaware!

spivonious 11-18-13 09:51 AM

It will be interesting to see if the change has any effect. PA's Share the Road signs are much better, showing a bicycle in front of a car.

PatrickGSR94 11-18-13 10:34 AM

I wish all STR signs would be replaced with the "Bicycle may use full lane" signs.

Consularrider 11-18-13 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PatrickGSR94 (Post 16256108)
I wish all STR signs would be replaced with the "Bicycle may use full lane" signs.

Hmmm, do you think Virginia would be willing to change the STR language on it's special interest bicycle enthusiasts' license plates to "Bicycle may use full lane?"

MMACH 5 11-18-13 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Consularrider (Post 16256236)
Hmmm, do you think Virginia would be willing to change the STR language on it's special interest bicycle enthusiasts' license plates to "Bicycle may use full lane?"

Good point.
With all of the negative publicity over LA and his transgressions, I'm kind of surprised that TX is still offering the "Share The Road Y'all" plate.

https://rts.texasonline.state.tx.us/...id=60&pltid=97

AngeloDolce 11-18-13 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MMACH 5 (Post 16255912)
This story says that Bike Delaware has been lobbying for this change since August...

August? Really?
It took roughly three months to get this policy changed?

...

It took years; Bike Delaware did not initiate this, and Bike DE support came primarily from original members that have since left the group to continue to support bicyclists' interest in transportation riding.


http://www.bikede.org/2013/11/04/goo...road/#comments

Pibber 11-18-13 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Consularrider (Post 16256236)
Hmmm, do you think Virginia would be willing to change the STR language on it's special interest bicycle enthusiasts' license plates to "Bicycle may use full lane?"

having been hit in arlington, and been unfortunate enough to deal with "law enforcement" there, i'd say alexandria is taking considerably stronger action. so, i hope that STR language is removed.

in alexandria we have the white "bike may use full lane" signs. there's a push to remove parking spaces from king street and replace them with bike lanes. that said, i'm not sure just how effective bike lanes are, anymore(i was right hooked while riding in a bike lane). the more i ride in this area, the more i just take the lane. otherwise, if i even let a driver think they can pass, they do, and many times it's much too close for comfort.

FBinNY 11-18-13 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spivonious (Post 16255934)
It will be interesting to see if the change has any effect. PA's Share the Road signs are much better, showing a bicycle in front of a car.

These haave always been my favorites. New York is also putting up similar signs.

MMACH 5 11-18-13 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AngeloDolce (Post 16258081)
It took years; Bike Delaware did not initiate this, and Bike DE support came primarily from original members that have since left the group to continue to support bicyclists' interest in transportation riding.
...

Thanks for the clarification.

turbo1889 11-19-13 02:36 AM

Still putting up with the "share the road" language up here in MT. I have yet to see a "bikes may use full lane" in my state. Saw one in Idaho when I took a ride down there and back early this year.

FenderTL5 11-19-13 06:54 AM

I ride past one of the May Use Full Lane signs on my daily route here in Nashville. It's in West Meade on Post Road, as you turn off hwy 70s onto Post headed toward downtown. Post Road is part of the Music City Bikeway.

We just got 4 (2 each direction) Share the Road signs on Old Harding in Bellevue.

Metal Man 11-19-13 02:16 PM

I carry my own sign. Ignore the distorted reflection in the window, it's from a neon sign on my wall.

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h1...D/Bikesign.jpg

PatrickGSR94 11-19-13 05:56 PM

uh dude, I would have taken a pic from a different angle to avoid that reflection if I were you. :P

JoeyBike 11-19-13 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbo1889 (Post 16258548)
Still putting up with the "share the road" language up here in MT. I have yet to see a "bikes may use full lane" in my state. Saw one in Idaho when I took a ride down there and back early this year.

I prefer "Change Lanes COMPLETELY To Pass"

JoeyBike 11-19-13 10:55 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by PatrickGSR94 (Post 16260697)
uh dude, I would have taken a pic from a different angle to avoid that reflection if I were you. :P

I would have just taken five seconds in Photo Shop:

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=351629

turbo1889 11-20-13 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeyBike (Post 16261362)
I prefer "Change Lanes COMPLETELY To Pass"

Not arguing with that in general but there is one exception I would point out where a smart motorists especially a trucker will not completely change lanes when passing you in order to protect you.

Huh? What? Why? Are you nuts !!!

No, I'm not nuts if a cyclist is riding the right tire track in the lane or closer to the white line and the car (or especially truck) that is passing is being tailgated by a dangerous aggressive driver swinging all the way into the other lane for the pass leaves a large enough space to tempt that aggressor to try to squeeze between the person making a full lane change to pass and the cyclist passing the truck on the right while it is changing lanes to pass the cyclist.

I have experienced this as the person driving the truck who swung all the way out into the other lane to make the pass and had a 4-wheel nut job pull that stunt putting the cyclist in considerable danger.

So from now on when passing a cyclist who is riding far enough right in the lane to leave a big enough gap to provide this kind of temptation to a 4-wheel speed demon idiot chewing on my bumper then I'll keep my right wheels just to the right of the yellow center line so I'm giving the cyclist as much clearance as possible while not giving so much it tempts the idiot tailgating me to pull that kind of stunt.


Long story short, sometimes a proper pass involves not only giving the cyclist enough clearance (which I strongly prefer a full lane change if I'm the one doing the passing) but also being sure to not swing too wide and tempt a maniac from behind to pull a stunt like that. Basically when necessary using your vehicle to shield the cyclist.


I'ts a small quibble and in the arena of "advanced driving skills that most people would never even think of" but it is a point I though I should point out. And as a cyclist if you have someone, especially someone driving a heavy cargo truck, pass you nice and wide but still keep their right wheels just to the right of the yellow line and not do a full lane change. They might actually be doing that to shield you from the idiot chewing on their bumper and not tempt the idiot to try to do a dash squeeze between you and the passing truck.

By "truck" I mean a 6-10 wheel 2-5 ton short truck. I don't drive the 18-wheel jobs but I do often drive 2-5 ton short trucks under the agricultural and personal use exception. The technique and the issue applies to any vehicle passing a cyclist, however. It is possible to swing to wide while passing a cyclist and tempt an idiot behind you to try to squeeze between you and the cyclist and put the cyclist in considerable danger.

MMACH 5 11-20-13 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbo1889 (Post 16261875)
Not arguing with that in general but there is one exception I would point out where a smart motorists especially a trucker will not completely change lanes when passing you in order to protect you.

Huh? What? Why? Are you nuts !!!

No, I'm not nuts if a cyclist is riding the right tire track in the lane or closer to the white line and the car (or especially truck) that is passing is being tailgated by a dangerous aggressive driver swinging all the way into the other lane for the pass leaves a large enough space to tempt that aggressor to try to squeeze between the person making a full lane change to pass and the cyclist passing the truck on the right while it is changing lanes to pass the cyclist.

I have experienced this as the person driving the truck who swung all the way out into the other lane to make the pass and had a 4-wheel nut job pull that stunt putting the cyclist in considerable danger.

So from now on when passing a cyclist who is riding far enough right in the lane to leave a big enough gap to provide this kind of temptation to a 4-wheel speed demon idiot chewing on my bumper then I'll keep my right wheels just to the right of the yellow center line so I'm giving the cyclist as much clearance as possible while not giving so much it tempts the idiot tailgating me to pull that kind of stunt.


Long story short, sometimes a proper pass involves not only giving the cyclist enough clearance (which I strongly prefer a full lane change if I'm the one doing the passing) but also being sure to not swing too wide and tempt a maniac from behind to pull a stunt like that. Basically when necessary using your vehicle to shield the cyclist.


I'ts a small quibble and in the arena of "advanced driving skills that most people would never even think of" but it is a point I though I should point out. And as a cyclist if you have someone, especially someone driving a heavy cargo truck, pass you nice and wide but still keep their right wheels just to the right of the yellow line and not do a full lane change. They might actually be doing that to shield you from the idiot chewing on their bumper and not tempt the idiot to try to do a dash squeeze between you and the passing truck.

By "truck" I mean a 6-10 wheel 2-5 ton short truck. I don't drive the 18-wheel jobs but I do often drive 2-5 ton short trucks under the agricultural and personal use exception. The technique and the issue applies to any vehicle passing a cyclist, however. It is possible to swing to wide while passing a cyclist and tempt an idiot behind you to try to squeeze between you and the cyclist and put the cyclist in considerable danger.

Sorry, but that's kind of a crock. You are not responsible for the behavior of the cars behind you.
Please don't decide that passing me with less than optimal clearance is for "my own good." You worry about your driving, not policing how others around you drive.

howsteepisit 11-20-13 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MMACH 5 (Post 16262036)
Sorry, but that's kind of a crock. You are not responsible for the behavior of the cars behind you.
Please don't decide that passing me with less than optimal clearance is for "my own good." You worry about your driving, not policing how others around you drive.

What is the optimal distance for a car passing a bicycle, and how did you arrive at that optimal distance?

I think what Turbo suggest is just fine.

MMACH 5 11-20-13 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by howsteepisit (Post 16262292)
What is the optimal distance for a car passing a bicycle, and how did you arrive at that optimal distance?
...

The other lane.

Quote:

Originally Posted by howsteepisit (Post 16262292)
...
I think what Turbo suggest is just fine.

We don't need motorists who set out to protect all the poor, defenseless cyclists. We are traffic. Treat us like we are.

turbo1889 11-20-13 11:59 AM

I can certainly understand the sentiment you express, MMACK 5, and I also get tired of the "for your own safety" line because it is used to justify so much discrimination against cyclists.

I thought it would be a lot better to explain this with picture diagrams so I knew there were some simple diagrams I could easily alter in MSpaint that have already come up on this forum from the CA drivers manual about the right and wrong way to pass a cyclist (and it shows a straddle pass rather then a full lane change pass which there was a whole thread dedicated too on this forum a while back). So I used its components and changed some colors to show what I'm talking about. Please be aware this is not to scale and I suggest a much longer smoother pass over more road length not a "pass them like they are standing still" short pass like these little diagrams may look. But they get the point across:



First let me make it very clear this is my greatly preferred and normal way to pass a cyclist when I'm the one driving an truck or car:

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7430/1...5e3857de_o.jpg




But there is a little problem that can crop up with that, something I had done to me once that scared the daylights out of me and probably the cyclist as well. This is what it looks like (blue car me, red car aggressive speed demon nut case tailgater):

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7295/1...a25e933e_o.jpg





In order to prevent that from happening again when I've got a bumper chewer on me (very common when driving truck) I do this:

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3744/1...9511861a_o.jpg




Basically don't swing quite as wide so that I'm not tempting the bumper chewer to pull a stunt like that. Still give the cyclist as much room as I can without opening up that temptation.

MMACH 5 11-20-13 12:54 PM

That's certainly a dangerous maneuver by the passing motorist. I've never experienced it, but can imagine the frustration that would come from both car #1 and the cyclist. I'd still be rather wary of attempting to subdue scofflaw motorists' actions.

ItsJustMe 11-20-13 02:35 PM

I've had exactly that happen to me several times. I've also had people get passed when they were passing me within the lane (there's room for that where I ride) so what he suggests is good, the passing car moving 1/2 lane over to pass. 3 feet of clearance is plenty for me even on 60 MPH roads.

howsteepisit 11-20-13 03:36 PM

I have experienced exactly what Turbo is talking about here, so for me, 3 feet is the optimal pass distance.

turbo1889 11-20-13 10:30 PM

And of course a car that needs to go into the oncoming lane in any way or part to pass with safe clearance should only pass when the oncoming lane is clear of oncoming traffic. Where a pass that doesn't go all the way into the oncoming lane is problematic is when idiots try it with oncoming traffic.

Also, if the cyclist is riding in the middle or close to middle of a narrow lane then a regular full lane change pass works fine even with a bumper chewer on your @$$ because the cyclist isn't far enough to the right to leave enough space to provide a temptation for that kind of nut case maneuver.

If you want diagrams showing those other scenarios I can do them as well, but not now, just dropping in for a quick moment and then I've got to jump on the bike myself.

CB HI 11-20-13 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MMACH 5 (Post 16262881)
That's certainly a dangerous maneuver by the passing motorist. I've never experienced it, but can imagine the frustration that would come from both car #1 and the cyclist. I'd still be rather wary of attempting to subdue scofflaw motorists' actions.

I have had it happen several times. When motoring and this happens, I slow to the cyclist speed behind the cyclist, let the tailgater pass me and cyclist in the next lane, then I move to the next lane and pass the cyclist.


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