Originally Posted by dynodonn
anyone who has been to Vegas, and has realized that there's more to Vegas than just the strip (the other 130 square miles) realizes why some places are autocentric.
on the other hand, I never understand using public transport in places like DC, Boston or NYC to go to the gym.
Bikes and/or feet have gotten me there sufficiently well enough to make it intelligent.
I've run almost every kind of internal combustion motor there is on alcohol high test fuels, 2-cycles, 4-cycles, even a couple Wankels, an expansion piston a 6-cycle (hybrid IC/steam cycle) and a two different OP (opposed piston) engines, simple carberater, super-charged, throttle body injection, port injection, low pressure direct injection, and high pressure direct injection.
Originally Posted by Rollfast
Plain old pure ethanol is equivalent 108 octane better then 104 aviation grade gasoline and has quicker vaporization rate, quicker ignition, and faster flame speed at lower working temperatures for the same amount of power output and can be run at higher compression levels and don't require as advanced timing with allows for higher RPMs before over-running of the ignition occurs (not the correct technical term I'm sure but what we used to call it). Any engine can be made to run on alcohol including diesel cycle engines and will run better smoother and cleaner with more power then if it were run on gasoline especially if you get into some of the more exotic alcohol chemistry and don't stick with just plain jane ethanol. And its not just a new motors only thing, look up the original instruction manuals for the Ford model A & T which both clearly stated that the car would run better and last longer on alcohol fuel then gasoline. Also look into some of WWII war-time alcohol fuel set-ups both for higher power war time combat engines and oil conservation on the home front both pure alcohol and alcohol gasoline mix blends.
The complete lies and half truths and misconceptions spread about alcohol fuels are a travesty of the first order. I really love the mechanics that say to use "heat" and similar additive products to "fix the mess that ethanol added to gas causes" THOSE ADDITIVES ARE ALCOHOL !!! I've had more then one "professional" mechanic (in quotes for a reason) give me this line and I tell them to read the fine print on the back label that says whats in the stuff they are saying to use to "fix the mess that ethanol added to gas causes" and their eyes just about bug out of their head and they start stampering and then saying the label is wrong and that can't be so. It's totally laughable, it is true that alcohol AND gasoline BOTH can cause problems with certain components in the fuel delivery system (primarily hoses, gaskets, and seals as I previously explained) where the material they are made of is compatible with one fuel but not the other. Want to make a high test racer really, really mad add some of that nasty gasoline to his pure alcohol fuel and watch the gasoline mess up his fuel delivery system by attacking those components that are alcohol tolerant but not gasoline tolerant in his/her set-up. There is also a mixture issue the air/fuel ratio between gasoline and alcohol fuels is slightly different and on older engines means you have to manually adjust the mix needles slightly (or even adjust the injection system on a really old mechanical non-electronic injector system, not very common but they do exist). Other systems if run on pure alcohol need just a little bit of bio-diesel or other light lubricant oil that will mix with alcohol mixed in usually about 1-2% to provide some lubricant properties to the fuel. Some older injector systems need it as do some carburated super-charger systems where the supercharger needs the slight lubricating properties of gasoline that alcohol lacks. This of course if your using pure alcohol fuel not a gasoline/alcohol mix.
Long story short alcohol is a superior fuel to gasoline in almost every way, it is possible to do some damage to the fuel system though if it isn't alcohol tolerant and was built only for gasoline (something that it has been proven that some engine manufactures have actually spent money to do when it actually would have been a lower cost of production for them to build a system which could tolerate at least some alcohol mixed in with gasoline). It is also theoretically possible to damage the actual engine itself if you really muck up the fuel mixture settings but that is true with any fuel system and you generally have to go over 25% alcohol content mixed into gasoline before the mix settings are far enough off if set for pure gasoline to actually be at risk of causing actual rod, piston, and cylinder type damage.
You really need to educate yourself about what the actual facts are about alcohol fuels rather then just towing the old half-truths and full on lies story the oil companies have been using to campaign against alcohol using up some of their market share (and substantially reducing pollution and other environmental damages that are the result of getting gasoline into your fuel tank in the process) since before the beginning of prohibition which by the way the push for that although primarily led by religious zealots was primarily financed in the back-ground by the oil companies at a time when almost a quarter of the liquid fuels market was alcohol not petro based.
Edit: Oh, yah, I have run Briggs and Stratton engines specifically on alcohol fuel, not straight high test alcohol fuel (no need to even try with those dogs, much better engines out there to modify) but up to 20% mix in gasoline. Have to change some of the fuel delivery components (alcohol tolerant carb kit and new hoses) and tweak the mix needle maybe a 1/8-to-1/4 turn if your going to do it for any extended period of time but nothing more then that needed. I run minimum 10% mix in everything I own that uses gasoline fuel without worries and prefer to mix in as much as I can get away with since I have access to 190 proof pure ethanol for cheaper then gasoline and I have had enough experience with alcohol fuels in the past that I fully understand the benefits both in terms of making my engine last longer and perform better and also for the environment and I've got the skills and no-how to upgrade the fuel system as needed. I've got my 2-ton farm truck with an engine in it that the block is over 40 year old with a couple rebuilds on it modified to run on anything from pure gasoline all the way up to 98% alcohol (have to have at least 2% bio-diesel or 5% gasoline mixed in because the after market port injector system needs just a little bit of lubrication which absolutely pure alcohol doesn't have). Should have seen the look on the face of the mechanic who ran the emission test on it when I drove it all the way over into Washington state and I got told to have it tested since the cop though it looked old enough that it had to be making bad emissions (combined with my Montana license plate I'm sure but she didn't admit that) when it passed with flying colors clean. For a moment I think he thought his test machine was broken, it was running on a tank of E-85 at the time, do like the fact that you can actually find that high of a mix at the pump over there, something my state is lacking, if you want anything more then 10% of the good-stuff up here you have to mix your own or drive all the way to the one gas station in the whole state that sells E-85. Pathetic !!!
Last edited by turbo1889; 01-06-14 at 03:36 PM.
I STILL miss East Hill :)
But E-15 is where the problem lies. I think the Brazilians ran straight ethanol during WWII but this stuff is harsh on the little B&S and my brother in law who used to rebuild locomotive engines at the old Morrison-Knudsen (Motive Power) rail shop and my late father both said it wasn't worth the money to do stuff and we always have to fix it.
Since I live on Social Security disability it's just not worth being a rocket scientist and there are several locations with ethanol free unleaded now.
Smile at Miles with a ROLLFAST!
Originally Posted by 10 Wheels
You can lead a horse to water but can't make him think, your mind has been poisoned by the half truths and out-right lies of the oil companies. By the way Brazil currently uses E-25 as the lowest percentage of ethanol mix available (and routinely sells full on pure alcohol fuel straight from the pump) which is 10% more ethanol content then E-15 and 15% more then the current E-10 in use across the U.S. No rocket science needed just get the engine fuel system manufactures to stop spending extra money to make their systems non-alcohol fuel compatible (yes, they actually spend more and buy more costly components that are not alcohol tolerant rather then use cheaper materials that are alcohol tolerant). Some people just don't have the intelligence to actually look at the facts and prefer to instead swallow the toxic snot spoon fed to them by the powers that be.
Last edited by turbo1889; 01-13-14 at 12:25 PM.
Back to the original topic... Orange Theory has been down here in Tampa for a while... the bikes have turned into rusty crap, chained up around the city.
My opinion is that Orange Theory should be fined for littering and advertising without a license.
I STILL miss East Hill :)
Well, he had nearly 40 years of experience as a mechanic, in the Navy and civilian life and nobody he worked for thought it much good for little engines...mind you I'm NOT such a mechanic and it was pretty lucky that the Chevy 235 cid Turbo-Thrift Six was so easy to fix. Try changing a broken motor mount of a 1987 Chevy Celebrity with a 2.8L V6 or the spark plugs in an '83 Malibu wagon with that godawful 60 degree V6 and you'll still scrape and burn your knuckles. The '68 Chevelle Deluxe 4-door was a blessing that I should have kept.
Originally Posted by turbo1889
Neither me or my brother in law want to mess with that and E-gas is becoming scarcer around these parts now so that's just groovy to me. But enough about that please, it's irrelevant to the topic.
Smile at Miles with a ROLLFAST!
Originally Posted by 10 Wheels