Can Saying, "People on Bikes" instead of "cyclist" make cycling safer?
#26
----
#27
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: NA
Posts: 4,267
Bikes: NA
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times
in
7 Posts
hermeneutics is derived from hermes -- the messenger of the gods. i maintain that it is a fine way to describe a group of people who are more concerned with message than substance.
it amuses and saddens me that impressing a professor is considered to be something negative.
trying to impress their college professor
#28
Just a person on bike
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 2,140
Bikes: 2015 Trek 1.1, 2021 Specialized Roubaix, 2022 Tern HSD S+
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 132 Post(s)
Liked 86 Times
in
56 Posts
Should we talk about replacing "drivers" with "people in cars" first?
__________________
The value of your life doesn't change based on the way you travel. - Dawn Schellenberg (SDOT)
The value of your life doesn't change based on the way you travel. - Dawn Schellenberg (SDOT)
#29
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 97
Bikes: Bicycle!
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
People First Language (PFL) is prescriptive and awkward. It doesn't work in bicycle advocacy IMO. PFL is a distraction from the real issues affecting people on...oooops....cyclists and motorists.
#30
Been Around Awhile
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 29,969
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked 1,532 Times
in
1,043 Posts
hermeneutics is derived from hermes -- the messenger of the gods. i maintain that it is a fine way to describe a group of people who are more concerned with message than substance.
it amuses and saddens me that impressing a professor is considered to be something negative.
it amuses and saddens me that impressing a professor is considered to be something negative.
#31
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,177
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 117 Post(s)
Liked 71 Times
in
51 Posts
Many words have been used to label people as "other" in our recent history. Unfortunately, the censors won't let me list most of them, but consider how the gay community has taken ownership of words that were previously used to attack them. Just last year President Obama took ownership of the term "Obamacare", to successful political effect.
In my opinion, we should follow these examples and own the word cyclist with pride. It will still be used as a pejorative at times, but running from it gives it power over us.
That said, I prefer to confine its use to a description of someone who is actually riding a bike (or trike, or whatever). When we're sitting on our hind-quarters writing these posts, we're not cyclists. When we get on our bikes, we're cyclists again.
In my opinion, we should follow these examples and own the word cyclist with pride. It will still be used as a pejorative at times, but running from it gives it power over us.
That said, I prefer to confine its use to a description of someone who is actually riding a bike (or trike, or whatever). When we're sitting on our hind-quarters writing these posts, we're not cyclists. When we get on our bikes, we're cyclists again.
#32
What happened?
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Around here somewhere
Posts: 7,927
Bikes: 3 Rollfasts, 3 Schwinns, a Shelby and a Higgins Flightliner in a pear tree!
Mentioned: 57 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1835 Post(s)
Liked 292 Times
in
255 Posts
No more than saying Persons with HIV/AIDS.
__________________
I don't know nothing, and I memorized it in school and got this here paper I'm proud of to show it.
#33
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 5,866
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
2 Posts
People on bikes brings up images of a bunch of clowns (literal clowns) trying to get as many as possible on one bike.
If one wants a general term bicycle riders seems good to me. Or even Bicycle users to describe one who may sometimes ride and sometimes not.
Of course an article writer could reasonably decide to define different subgroups for the article if it was comparing and contrasting different sub groups.
In that case people on Bikes could be used. My guess is it would not be for a group that has a positive image.
If one wants a general term bicycle riders seems good to me. Or even Bicycle users to describe one who may sometimes ride and sometimes not.
Of course an article writer could reasonably decide to define different subgroups for the article if it was comparing and contrasting different sub groups.
In that case people on Bikes could be used. My guess is it would not be for a group that has a positive image.
#34
Senior Member
My observation is that some people just hate those who ride bikes. I've caught someone's nasty frowning face when I was pushing my bike out of office. He had this nasty expression when the bike was half way out of the door, and I was not in sight yet, as if he saw a snake; as soon as I got out and he saw me looking at him, he switched to a smiling face. Happened twice so far, as far as I'm aware of.
Heck, no one is preventing you from also riding a bike or being physically active if it's a subconscious jealousy in play.
Heck, no one is preventing you from also riding a bike or being physically active if it's a subconscious jealousy in play.
#35
Grouch
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Bucks County, PA
Posts: 88
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
But what I really want to know is just what should we say when we want to reach out and embrace an honest conversation, by the end of the day so that we have the correct narrative.
#36
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Posts: 38,690
Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
Mentioned: 140 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5772 Post(s)
Liked 2,568 Times
in
1,422 Posts
Say "bicyclist" which by definition is a person who rides a bicycle. Why clutter up the language with new words that don't add anything.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
#37
Grouch
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Bucks County, PA
Posts: 88
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Exactly my point. The above semantics are heard more and more at any op-ed news cast. Just get to the point. Call it want you want. Picking a prettier term does very little to the concern. Stop giving people a reason to hate us, be courteous to all others.
#38
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Posts: 38,690
Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
Mentioned: 140 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5772 Post(s)
Liked 2,568 Times
in
1,422 Posts
Thought experiment for those who believe that changing how we refer to bicyclists will change anything.
You have to be a driver to conduct the experiment. At an appropriate time, say something to the effect of the following. I was driving home last night and I hit a bicycle"> No not say anything to imply that person was involved, just a bicycle. I'll bet 3 bbers to one, that you'll get a reaction to the effect of "Golly, was he hurt" or "was anybody hurt". Just the word Bicycle in this conrext conjures an image of a person riding a bicycle, rather than a bicycle that just a bicycle that someone left lying in the road or driveway.
You have to be a driver to conduct the experiment. At an appropriate time, say something to the effect of the following. I was driving home last night and I hit a bicycle"> No not say anything to imply that person was involved, just a bicycle. I'll bet 3 bbers to one, that you'll get a reaction to the effect of "Golly, was he hurt" or "was anybody hurt". Just the word Bicycle in this conrext conjures an image of a person riding a bicycle, rather than a bicycle that just a bicycle that someone left lying in the road or driveway.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
#39
What happened?
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Around here somewhere
Posts: 7,927
Bikes: 3 Rollfasts, 3 Schwinns, a Shelby and a Higgins Flightliner in a pear tree!
Mentioned: 57 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1835 Post(s)
Liked 292 Times
in
255 Posts
I simply refuse to use a bicycle...computers, well...
__________________
I don't know nothing, and I memorized it in school and got this here paper I'm proud of to show it.