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-   -   Can Saying, "People on Bikes" instead of "cyclist" make cycling safer? (http://www.bikeforums.net/advocacy-safety/922899-can-saying-people-bikes-instead-cyclist-make-cycling-safer.html)

FenderTL5 11-19-13 04:31 PM

Can Saying, "People on Bikes" instead of "cyclist" make cycling safer?
 
Drop the Cyclist moniker?
Even biking publications are pulling away from the term. "We try to avoid the word 'cyclist' consciously as much as possible," says Mia Kohout, CEO and editor-in-chief of Momentum Magazine. "The word evokes a lot of negative connotations. There's a huge group of people—60 percent of the people in cities—who are interested and concerned about riding a bike, but the word seems too hardcore to them."

What do you think?

genec 11-19-13 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FenderTL5 (Post 16260436)
Drop the Cyclist moniker?
Even biking publications are pulling away from the term. "We try to avoid the word 'cyclist' consciously as much as possible," says Mia Kohout, CEO and editor-in-chief of Momentum Magazine. "The word evokes a lot of negative connotations. There's a huge group of people—60 percent of the people in cities—who are interested and concerned about riding a bike, but the word seems too hardcore to them."

What do you think?

I think people want to shortcut everything and it comes out "biker" anyway.

CrankyOne 11-19-13 05:02 PM

You mean like the people on bikes who chased down a guy in NYC, pulled him out of his SUV, and beat him to a pulp? Maybe people on bicycles.

FBinNY 11-19-13 05:26 PM

There's too much emphasis on specific language these days. Everyone has a sensitivity or axe to grind, and wants to change the language accordingly.

I prefer bicyclist to separate bicyclists form motorcyclists, but don't think worrying about language changes anything. People translate words into entities, and form impressions or judgements accordingly. It isn't the word, but what it represents that counts.

In any case, why clutter language by using three words when one will do?

Feldman 11-20-13 10:10 AM

You don't realize that the whole discussion was phony? This was a trial "Portlandia" script planted into bikeportland.org a few months ago. Heck, with Momentum being suckered, it's truly gone international!

kingsqueak 11-20-13 11:36 AM

Things are far too soft and easy for people to be concerned over a word.

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instanc...x/43162281.jpg

vol 11-20-13 11:50 AM

There's a genuinely very friendly guy where I work, whom I used to run into in the subway. Then one day when he saw me he said he missed meeting me in the subway. I told him I now commute by bike. "I hate those bike riders!" replied him.

Feldman 11-26-13 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vol (Post 16262610)
There's a genuinely very friendly guy where I work, whom I used to run into in the subway. Then one day when he saw me he said he missed meeting me in the subway. I told him I now commute by bike. "I hate those bike riders!" replied him.

Don't say you're a bike rider--say you're a "transportation patriot" and that you are keeping US $ out of Islamofascist hands.

B. Carfree 11-26-13 09:04 PM

Many words have been used to label people as "other" in our recent history. Unfortunately, the censors won't let me list most of them, but consider how the gay community has taken ownership of words that were previously used to attack them. Just last year President Obama took ownership of the term "Obamacare", to successful political effect.

In my opinion, we should follow these examples and own the word cyclist with pride. It will still be used as a pejorative at times, but running from it gives it power over us.

That said, I prefer to confine its use to a description of someone who is actually riding a bike (or trike, or whatever). When we're sitting on our hind-quarters writing these posts, we're not cyclists. When we get on our bikes, we're cyclists again.

rebel1916 11-26-13 09:24 PM

No

Chris516 11-26-13 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingsqueak (Post 16262552)
Things are far too soft and easy for people to be concerned over a word.

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instanc...x/43162281.jpg

I agree.

John Forester 11-26-13 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FenderTL5 (Post 16260436)
Drop the Cyclist moniker?
Even biking publications are pulling away from the term. "We try to avoid the word 'cyclist' consciously as much as possible," says Mia Kohout, CEO and editor-in-chief of Momentum Magazine. "The word evokes a lot of negative connotations. There's a huge group of people—60 percent of the people in cities—who are interested and concerned about riding a bike, but the word seems too hardcore to them."

What do you think?

The choice is purely political. If you want to write for and to the "60 percent of the people in cities -- who are interested and concerned about riding a bike" but who only rarely do it, then you would be correct to use "people on bikes" or similar circumlocutions. That's the market Momentum intends to reach, as indicated by the above quotation. But for people who are better informed and more active, then cyclist is much more accurate.

spare_wheel 11-27-13 12:16 AM

The whole "people who bike" meme is another example of how cycling advocacy (sorry...advocacy for people who bike) in the USA is increasingly a hermeneutic cult.

I-Like-To-Bike 11-27-13 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spare_wheel (Post 16281923)
The whole "people who bike" meme is another example of how cycling advocacy (sorry...advocacy for people who bike) in the USA is increasingly a hermeneutic cult.

:wtf:

noisebeam 11-27-13 09:11 AM

If you are driving a vehicle you are a driver.

Drivers in cars, in trucks, on motorcycles, on bikes, on bicycles, on mopeds, etc., all drivers all equal.

If you want to call different drivers different names, go ahead, conflict requires it.

Chicago Al 11-27-13 09:59 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by spare_wheel (Post 16281923)
The whole "people who bike" meme is another example of how cycling advocacy (sorry...advocacy for people who bike) in the USA is increasingly a hermeneutic cult.

For ILTB and others confused, 'hermeneutics' has several meanings, appropriately, since it broadly means the interpretation of meaning from written texts (as in Biblical hermeneutics) or spoken language. Obviously things do not always mean what they appear to on the surface, nor do writers (including many regulars here) realize what they are communicating beyond their intended meaning.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=352768

I-Like-To-Bike 11-27-13 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chicago Al (Post 16282795)
For ILTB and others confused, 'hermeneutics' has several meanings, appropriately, since it broadly means the interpretation of meaning from written texts (as in Biblical hermeneutics) or spoken language. Obviously things do not always mean what they appear to on the surface, nor do writers (including many regulars here) realize what they are communicating beyond their intended meaning.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=352768

OK, now what is a "hermeneutic cult"?

RPK79 11-27-13 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by genec (Post 16260476)
I think people want to shortcut everything and it comes out "biker" anyway.

People On Bikes could just get shortened to Plobs. I kind of like it.

"I wish this plob would get off the road! I'm late for work!"

FBinNY 11-27-13 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike (Post 16282955)
OK, now what is a "hermeneutic cult"?

A small group on firums like this one who devote their time to trying to discern the meaning of some of the posts.

Though he probably misused the word, suspect that I may agree with the intended sentiment. These days, it seems nobody uses single words when they can substitute long phrases. If we replace bicyclist, or cyclist, or bicycle (yes, it's not a person) people on bikes, then after an accident will we need to say we were hit by a person driving a car, or operator of a motor vehicle.

It seems that American English these days is getting tortured by folks who write and speak as if trying to impress their college professor. Plain English is dying a slow painful death crushed by bureaucratese (or is it bureaucratish).

For my part, I don't believe that changing the language will change the reality, so lets leave things the way they are so our target audience understands us.

prooftheory 11-27-13 11:10 AM

They didn't mean "hermetic cult", i.e, rosicrucianism etc.?

I-Like-To-Bike 11-27-13 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FBinNY (Post 16283048)
A small group on firums like this one who devote their time to trying to discern the meaning of some of the posts.

Do you mean to say that some posts have no discernible meaning?

Quote:

Originally Posted by FBinNY (Post 16283048)
It seems that American English these days is getting tortured by folks who write and speak as if trying to impress their college professor. Plain English is dying a slow painful death crushed by bureaucratese (or is it bureaucratish).

Do you mean like, "The whole 'people who bike' meme is another example of how cycling advocacy (sorry...advocacy for people who bike) in the USA is increasingly a hermeneutic cult"?

FBinNY 11-27-13 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike (Post 16283089)
Ya mean like, "The whole 'people who bike' meme is another example of how cycling advocacy (sorry...advocacy for people who bike) in the USA is increasingly a hermeneutic cult"?

Yes, that too.

I-Like-To-Bike 11-27-13 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FBinNY (Post 16283102)
Yes, that too.

OK, thanks, now I understand.

RPK79 11-27-13 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FBinNY (Post 16283048)
Plain English is dying a slow painful death crushed by bureaucratese (or is it bureaucratish).

I believe what you meant to say was people of bureaucracy.

FBinNY 11-27-13 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RPK79 (Post 16283124)
I believe what you meant to say was people of bureaucracy.

No I was referring to the language itself, not the people who wrote or speak it. It's a bit of a problem with the English language that the same words are often used to describe folks from a given country and the language they speak.


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