Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 11-19-13, 04:31 PM   #1
FenderTL5
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
FenderTL5's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Nashville TN
Bikes: Trek 7.3FX, Diamondback Edgewood hybrid, KHS Montana
Posts: 766
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Can Saying, "People on Bikes" instead of "cyclist" make cycling safer?

Drop the Cyclist moniker?
Even biking publications are pulling away from the term. "We try to avoid the word 'cyclist' consciously as much as possible," says Mia Kohout, CEO and editor-in-chief of Momentum Magazine. "The word evokes a lot of negative connotations. There's a huge group of people—60 percent of the people in cities—who are interested and concerned about riding a bike, but the word seems too hardcore to them."

What do you think?

Last edited by FenderTL5; 11-19-13 at 04:36 PM.
FenderTL5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-13, 04:47 PM   #2
genec
genec
 
genec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2
Posts: 24,631
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 147 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by FenderTL5 View Post
Drop the Cyclist moniker?
Even biking publications are pulling away from the term. "We try to avoid the word 'cyclist' consciously as much as possible," says Mia Kohout, CEO and editor-in-chief of Momentum Magazine. "The word evokes a lot of negative connotations. There's a huge group of people—60 percent of the people in cities—who are interested and concerned about riding a bike, but the word seems too hardcore to them."

What do you think?
I think people want to shortcut everything and it comes out "biker" anyway.
genec is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-13, 05:02 PM   #3
CrankyOne
Senior Member
 
CrankyOne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Bikes:
Posts: 1,821
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
You mean like the people on bikes who chased down a guy in NYC, pulled him out of his SUV, and beat him to a pulp? Maybe people on bicycles.
CrankyOne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-13, 05:26 PM   #4
FBinNY 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
Posts: 29,394
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 72 Post(s)
There's too much emphasis on specific language these days. Everyone has a sensitivity or axe to grind, and wants to change the language accordingly.

I prefer bicyclist to separate bicyclists form motorcyclists, but don't think worrying about language changes anything. People translate words into entities, and form impressions or judgements accordingly. It isn't the word, but what it represents that counts.

In any case, why clutter language by using three words when one will do?
__________________
FB
Chain-L site

An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.

“Never argue with an idiot. He will only bring you down to his level and beat you with experience.”, George Carlin

“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN

WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FBinNY is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-13, 10:10 AM   #5
Feldman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Bikes:
Posts: 862
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
You don't realize that the whole discussion was phony? This was a trial "Portlandia" script planted into bikeportland.org a few months ago. Heck, with Momentum being suckered, it's truly gone international!
Feldman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-13, 11:36 AM   #6
kingsqueak
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: NJ cellphone central
Bikes: Surly Ogre // (old and gone) Cannondale ST400, Rockhopper Sport
Posts: 468
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Things are far too soft and easy for people to be concerned over a word.

kingsqueak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-13, 11:50 AM   #7
vol
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: east coast
Bikes:
Posts: 3,272
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
There's a genuinely very friendly guy where I work, whom I used to run into in the subway. Then one day when he saw me he said he missed meeting me in the subway. I told him I now commute by bike. "I hate those bike riders!" replied him.
vol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-13, 08:37 PM   #8
Feldman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Bikes:
Posts: 862
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by vol View Post
There's a genuinely very friendly guy where I work, whom I used to run into in the subway. Then one day when he saw me he said he missed meeting me in the subway. I told him I now commute by bike. "I hate those bike riders!" replied him.
Don't say you're a bike rider--say you're a "transportation patriot" and that you are keeping US $ out of Islamofascist hands.
Feldman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-13, 09:04 PM   #9
B. Carfree
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Eugene, Oregon
Bikes:
Posts: 6,195
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Many words have been used to label people as "other" in our recent history. Unfortunately, the censors won't let me list most of them, but consider how the gay community has taken ownership of words that were previously used to attack them. Just last year President Obama took ownership of the term "Obamacare", to successful political effect.

In my opinion, we should follow these examples and own the word cyclist with pride. It will still be used as a pejorative at times, but running from it gives it power over us.

That said, I prefer to confine its use to a description of someone who is actually riding a bike (or trike, or whatever). When we're sitting on our hind-quarters writing these posts, we're not cyclists. When we get on our bikes, we're cyclists again.
B. Carfree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-13, 09:24 PM   #10
rebel1916
Senior Member
 
rebel1916's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Bikes:
Posts: 2,992
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
No
rebel1916 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-13, 09:37 PM   #11
Chris516
24-Speed Machine
 
Chris516's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Wash. Grove, MD
Bikes: 2003 Specialized Allez 24-Speed Road Bike
Posts: 6,054
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingsqueak View Post
Things are far too soft and easy for people to be concerned over a word.

I agree.
Chris516 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-13, 10:06 PM   #12
John Forester
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 4,071
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by FenderTL5 View Post
Drop the Cyclist moniker?
Even biking publications are pulling away from the term. "We try to avoid the word 'cyclist' consciously as much as possible," says Mia Kohout, CEO and editor-in-chief of Momentum Magazine. "The word evokes a lot of negative connotations. There's a huge group of people—60 percent of the people in cities—who are interested and concerned about riding a bike, but the word seems too hardcore to them."

What do you think?
The choice is purely political. If you want to write for and to the "60 percent of the people in cities -- who are interested and concerned about riding a bike" but who only rarely do it, then you would be correct to use "people on bikes" or similar circumlocutions. That's the market Momentum intends to reach, as indicated by the above quotation. But for people who are better informed and more active, then cyclist is much more accurate.
John Forester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-13, 12:16 AM   #13
spare_wheel
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: NA
Bikes: NA
Posts: 4,281
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The whole "people who bike" meme is another example of how cycling advocacy (sorry...advocacy for people who bike) in the USA is increasingly a hermeneutic cult.
spare_wheel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-13, 12:24 AM   #14
I-Like-To-Bike
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Posts: 23,508
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by spare_wheel View Post
The whole "people who bike" meme is another example of how cycling advocacy (sorry...advocacy for people who bike) in the USA is increasingly a hermeneutic cult.
I-Like-To-Bike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-13, 09:11 AM   #15
noisebeam
Al
 
noisebeam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: AZ
Bikes: Cannondale SuperSix, Lemond Poprad. Retired: Jamis Sputnik, Centurion LeMans Fixed, Diamond Back ascent ex
Posts: 14,109
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
If you are driving a vehicle you are a driver.

Drivers in cars, in trucks, on motorcycles, on bikes, on bicycles, on mopeds, etc., all drivers all equal.

If you want to call different drivers different names, go ahead, conflict requires it.
noisebeam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-13, 09:59 AM   #16
Chicago Al 
Senior Member
 
Chicago Al's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Chicago, the leafy NW side
Bikes:
Posts: 2,339
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by spare_wheel View Post
The whole "people who bike" meme is another example of how cycling advocacy (sorry...advocacy for people who bike) in the USA is increasingly a hermeneutic cult.
For ILTB and others confused, 'hermeneutics' has several meanings, appropriately, since it broadly means the interpretation of meaning from written texts (as in Biblical hermeneutics) or spoken language. Obviously things do not always mean what they appear to on the surface, nor do writers (including many regulars here) realize what they are communicating beyond their intended meaning.

Attached Images
File Type: jpg herman_munster_001.jpg (13.1 KB, 3 views)
__________________
I never think I have hit hard, unless it rebounds.

- Dr Samuel Johnson
Chicago Al is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-13, 10:38 AM   #17
I-Like-To-Bike
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Posts: 23,508
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicago Al View Post
For ILTB and others confused, 'hermeneutics' has several meanings, appropriately, since it broadly means the interpretation of meaning from written texts (as in Biblical hermeneutics) or spoken language. Obviously things do not always mean what they appear to on the surface, nor do writers (including many regulars here) realize what they are communicating beyond their intended meaning.

OK, now what is a "hermeneutic cult"?
I-Like-To-Bike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-13, 10:45 AM   #18
RPK79
Senior Member
 
RPK79's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: SE MN
Bikes: Fuji Roubaix Pro & Fuji Track Classic
Posts: 7,857
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 202 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by genec View Post
I think people want to shortcut everything and it comes out "biker" anyway.
People On Bikes could just get shortened to Plobs. I kind of like it.

"I wish this plob would get off the road! I'm late for work!"
RPK79 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-13, 10:59 AM   #19
FBinNY 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
Posts: 29,394
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 72 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
OK, now what is a "hermeneutic cult"?
A small group on firums like this one who devote their time to trying to discern the meaning of some of the posts.

Though he probably misused the word, suspect that I may agree with the intended sentiment. These days, it seems nobody uses single words when they can substitute long phrases. If we replace bicyclist, or cyclist, or bicycle (yes, it's not a person) people on bikes, then after an accident will we need to say we were hit by a person driving a car, or operator of a motor vehicle.

It seems that American English these days is getting tortured by folks who write and speak as if trying to impress their college professor. Plain English is dying a slow painful death crushed by bureaucratese (or is it bureaucratish).

For my part, I don't believe that changing the language will change the reality, so lets leave things the way they are so our target audience understands us.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site

An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.

“Never argue with an idiot. He will only bring you down to his level and beat you with experience.”, George Carlin

“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN

WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FBinNY is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-13, 11:10 AM   #20
prooftheory
pro in someone's theory
 
prooftheory's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Las Cruces, NM
Bikes: FTP
Posts: 3,100
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
They didn't mean "hermetic cult", i.e, rosicrucianism etc.?
prooftheory is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-13, 11:12 AM   #21
I-Like-To-Bike
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Posts: 23,508
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
A small group on firums like this one who devote their time to trying to discern the meaning of some of the posts.
Do you mean to say that some posts have no discernible meaning?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
It seems that American English these days is getting tortured by folks who write and speak as if trying to impress their college professor. Plain English is dying a slow painful death crushed by bureaucratese (or is it bureaucratish).
Do you mean like, "The whole 'people who bike' meme is another example of how cycling advocacy (sorry...advocacy for people who bike) in the USA is increasingly a hermeneutic cult"?

Last edited by I-Like-To-Bike; 11-27-13 at 11:15 AM.
I-Like-To-Bike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-13, 11:15 AM   #22
FBinNY 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
Posts: 29,394
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 72 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
Ya mean like, "The whole 'people who bike' meme is another example of how cycling advocacy (sorry...advocacy for people who bike) in the USA is increasingly a hermeneutic cult"?
Yes, that too.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site

An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.

“Never argue with an idiot. He will only bring you down to his level and beat you with experience.”, George Carlin

“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN

WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FBinNY is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-13, 11:18 AM   #23
I-Like-To-Bike
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Posts: 23,508
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
Yes, that too.
OK, thanks, now I understand.
I-Like-To-Bike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-13, 11:19 AM   #24
RPK79
Senior Member
 
RPK79's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: SE MN
Bikes: Fuji Roubaix Pro & Fuji Track Classic
Posts: 7,857
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 202 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
Plain English is dying a slow painful death crushed by bureaucratese (or is it bureaucratish).
I believe what you meant to say was people of bureaucracy.
RPK79 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-13, 11:25 AM   #25
FBinNY 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
Posts: 29,394
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 72 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by RPK79 View Post
I believe what you meant to say was people of bureaucracy.
No I was referring to the language itself, not the people who wrote or speak it. It's a bit of a problem with the English language that the same words are often used to describe folks from a given country and the language they speak.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site

An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.

“Never argue with an idiot. He will only bring you down to his level and beat you with experience.”, George Carlin

“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN

WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FBinNY is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:41 PM.